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[Lizzie_Zoom]

I will most certainly join in, as I do love this thread. Despite what that lying Stokie says.

I know Albs!!

You should have him for defamation of character!

[albitz]

I will have his kidneys for cufflinks if he,s ever brave enough to come back down here.

[Seth]

As Lizzie states, here's a typical early 1950s street scene.

I reckon that the location is Blue Street in Carmarthen town centre, which was the terminal point for Western Welsh services at that time.
The bus was about to set off for distant Aberystwyth, and would've been based at either Carmarthen depot or the Lampeter outstation.







887 is one of 14 Leyland Tiger PS1s with 32-seat Willowbrook bodies, and Leyland 8-odd litre E181 diesel engines.
Carrying fleet numbers 878-901, and registered DKG 878 etc; they entered service between January and June 1949.

Ideally, Western Welsh would've liked to have ordered over 50 of these Tigers, but due to post-war production difficulties, Leyland were only able to supply the afore-mentioned quantity at that time.
The company was in dire need of further new buses, both to replace pre-war rolling stock and to satisfy the post-war travel boom.



For it's next deliveries, it seems that WW was forced to accept the product of a different chassis supplier ........
    

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Thanks Byron!  As always you have given us all great details on the bus

To add to my earlier comments on the historical scene in the picture, I have now focused more on the people within the bus.  How many people now 'dress up' for going out shopping or doing general things?  Look at the dress of the people inside that bus and how they are faithfully reflecting the dress code of that time.  A general, almost without exception, smartness that one saw in those days.  Certainly no sign of the slobs we see now, in their overstretched joggers, bursting t-shirts, and out of season leg coverings or none!!

[jonnycool]

Here's a view of my favourite 10-metre Y-series Bedford.

It's a YLQ model with 45-seat Plaxton 'Supreme Express V' body - 'Express' denotes that it was built to Bus Grant spec; complete with a 'Bristol dome'.

This coach was powered by the 'Red Series' 8.2-litre naturally-aspirated '500' engine, and driven considerately, would happily maintain a steady 65 mph all day long whilst returning an economical 15 miles per gallon or thereabouts. In fact, a perfect coach for the independent operator in my opinion.







I took this photo on a lovely evening in Summer 1987, and the location is near Mumbles Pier on the shores of Swansea Bay.

Yeomans of Hereford ran an all-Bedford fleet for many years, and they were always smartly turned-out, as is evident here. The company prided itself on first-class routine maintenance standards, and were regular visitors to the South Wales resorts on their comprehensive Day Tour programme.

I'll get Lizzie to post-up a shot of their trademark logo soon

I thought I recognised that rock face 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Well this is the next set of buses, of the Western Welsh Bus Company, two of them as well, that Byron will talk about! 

Now  seem to recognise the cooling tower and the four lovely factory chimney stacks in a line, but I cannot quite place them!  Is it behind Cashmore's scrap yard in Newport where so many steam engines met their fate?   It is certainly an industrial background, and with a railway line just behind the building that the coaches are lined up against if the railway telegraph pole is anything to go by! 8-) 8-) 8-)

Once more, Byron will tell us!



 



 

[Seth]

Another variation on a theme here ........
Post-war production difficulties at Leyland Motors meant that Western Welsh was temporarily forced to look elsewhere for it's new buses.

938 seen below, was one of 38 32-seat Willowbrook-bodied Crossley SD42/7s that arrived towards the end of 1949.

Allocated fleet numbers 902-939 and registered DKG 902 etc; they were powered by Crossley's own 8.6-litre diesel engine, which proved to be somewhat unreliable in service.
As an apprentice, the 'old sweats' regaled me with the woes of this unit - apparently they were forever replacing/scraping the white metal crankshaft/big-end bearings. After a few years in service, many were de-licensed during the Winter months each year, due to concerns regarding their handling capabilities in poor conditions. The chassis though, was robustly-constructed, and many of the Crossleys spent their lives based at Bridgend and tended to be found on the less arduous rural routes in the Vale of Glamorgan area.

In an effort to overcome the engine problems, some received units from withdrawn pre-war Leyland Tigers.
This conversion was undertaken at the Central workshops at Ely, Cardiff.

All the Crossleys had been withdrawn and disposed of by 1962.







Taken in the late 1950s, the location is outside Western Welsh's garage at Margam Terrace, Port Talbot.
Clearly visible in the background can be seen the vast Steel Company of Wales' Abbey Works, with the South Wales Main Line running between it and the depot.

Port Talbot depot closed in October 1966.
Although some work and staff subsequently transferred to the parent Bridgend depot, around 50 redundancies resulted amongst the Port Talbot staff.
Fellow BET subsidiary Thomas Bros received the important Afan Valley and Baglan Estate services as part of this reorganisation within the group, and the premises was later demolished as part of the redevelopment of Port Talbot town centre and the construction of the elevated section of what was to become the M4 motorway.

Manchester-based Crossley Motors also disappeared - it was taken-over by AEC in the late-1940s.
Although it was possible to buy Crossleys for a few more years, in reality they were 'badge-engineered' AECs.

Western Welsh returned to AEC and Leyland as the favoured choice of chassis thereafter.

 

 

[Seth]

 



I must correct my original reply after consulting one of my former mentors .............

The Leyland Tiger PS1 engine was, in fact, the 7.4-litre E181 unit, which originally powered wartime Matilda tanks!
In 'bus' form it shoved-out 100 BHP with a governed maximum speed of 1800 RPM.

Lizzie mentions the cantrail advert:
At this time, they were all signwritten on the buses - mostly the work of signwriter Bert German, who toured the companies' depots undertaking such tasks.
His efforts were most impressive, and he later became Paintshop Foreman at Central Works in Ely, Cardiff.
As a humble apprentice, this scribe could often be found 'hiding' (or was it 'sciving'!) in Bert's 'shop' where four vehicles were being re-painted at any given time.

And all Western Welsh buses were painted by the traditional 'brush' method - no 'spray' jobs here missus!
 
 

[Dishevelled Den]

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk247/lizziefreeman/Trains%20Planes%20Buses%20%20Cars/WillowbrookBodiedCoach.jpg


Lizzie mentions the cantrail advert:
At this time, they were all signwritten on the buses - mostly the work of signwriter Bert German, who toured the companies' depots undertaking such tasks.
His efforts were most impressive, and he later became Paintshop Foreman at Central Works in Ely, Cardiff.
As a humble apprentice, this scribe could often be found 'hiding' (or was it 'sciving'!) in Bert's 'shop' where four vehicles were being re-painted at any given time.

And all Western Welsh buses were painted by the traditional 'brush' method - no 'spray' jobs here missus!
 
 

Words about a world and of trades long gone now B.

Also of a time when people took pride in what they did and displayed a work ethic that would put many to shame nowadays.

[Seth]

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk247/lizziefreeman/Trains%20Planes%20Buses%20%20Cars/WillowbrookBodiedCoach.jpg


Lizzie mentions the cantrail advert:
At this time, they were all signwritten on the buses - mostly the work of signwriter Bert German, who toured the companies' depots undertaking such tasks.
His efforts were most impressive, and he later became Paintshop Foreman at Central Works in Ely, Cardiff.
As a humble apprentice, this scribe could often be found 'hiding' (or was it 'sciving'!) in Bert's 'shop' where four vehicles were being re-painted at any given time.

And all Western Welsh buses were painted by the traditional 'brush' method - no 'spray' jobs here missus!
 
 

Words about a world and of trades long gone now B.

Also of a time when people took pride in what they did and displayed a work ethic that would put many to shame nowadays.

Yes Z; Western Welsh employed blacksmiths, carpenters, coach trimmers, coachbuilders, coachpainters, electricians, fitters, toolmakers, welders - and even a tinsmith!

At my home depot in Bridgend, coachbuilder 'Pancho' posessed the skills to gas weld cast aluminium.
Don was a legend with oxy-acetylene equipment, believe me  

[Lizzie_Zoom]

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk247/lizziefreeman/Trains%20Planes%20Buses%20%20Cars/WillowbrookBodiedCoach.jpg


Lizzie mentions the cantrail advert:
At this time, they were all signwritten on the buses - mostly the work of signwriter Bert German, who toured the companies' depots undertaking such tasks.
His efforts were most impressive, and he later became Paintshop Foreman at Central Works in Ely, Cardiff.
As a humble apprentice, this scribe could often be found 'hiding' (or was it 'sciving'!) in Bert's 'shop' where four vehicles were being re-painted at any given time.

And all Western Welsh buses were painted by the traditional 'brush' method - no 'spray' jobs here missus!
 
 

Words about a world and of trades long gone now B.

Also of a time when people took pride in what they did and displayed a work ethic that would put many to shame nowadays.

We have lost something indeed Zulu, and as I mentioned earlier those sign written advertisements were part of our childhood; a wonderful form of artwork that fascinated certainly my young mind and has stayed with me ever since.

The enamel signs that still adorned so many railway walls, fences, chimneys, in fact every you looked.  No tatty paper, short term advertisements then, but long term statements of intent - we have a great product - it is quality - you should buy it, and it is here for good like our enamel sign!

My early years in retailing, in the newsagent, confectioners and tobacco trade, quality advertisements for "Player's Senior Service", or "Weights Tipped", and Capstan Full Strength" cigarettes were still everywhere.  Even the confectionery could still be found in jars and tins; I still have a Squirrel's Confectionery tin that contained Floral Gums (mmmmmmmmm!!), which inside the lid proudly, permanently, states "Squirrel Confections" made by The Squirrel Confectionery Co. Ltd., Stockport, England

Although a container for use once, it was permanent; it reflected a society that was not going to change!  It was there, British society, safe, stable, reliable, of quality, and permanent!!  So were the enamel signs, and the other handwritten ones on the sides of the buses and coaches we have been reviewing.  It was quality, and of course then legal to advertise tobacco products, so with the vast majority of the population then smokers in some form or another, they advertised everywhere! 

To remind me of what we had then I have pictures in my many treasured railway books which show the "Virol" , "Castings West Yorkshire Foundries Ltd.", "Mackinlay's Scotch Whiskey", Drink Camp It's the best", "Sunlight Soap", "Player's Please!", and many more enamel advertising signs of a past golden age on railway walls of every description!  Yes, the huge advertising hoardings were starting to show to reflect the "new" products of the exciting different age of the late 1950s and 1960s, with the paper-on advertisements.  But the old enamel signs were still there, and the signwritten ones specifically for the sides of buses, above shop windows, and along the front of Pickford's and the like, were still reflecting another old skill, trade, that now, like so many of the products advertised, have gone.  Swept aside by cheaper, international brands in a world were things do not need to last; so reflects the advertising hoardings with flimsy paper adverts, with no need for long term sign written forms!  Quality, gone; longevity, gone; the skills and trades that went with them, gone!

Our brave new world has pushed aside the signwritters and enamel sign makers, with computer generated graphics doing everything far cheaper.  But is it what we really love?  History will tell!

[Dishevelled Den]

We have lost something indeed Zulu, and as I mentioned earlier those sign written advertisements were part of our childhood; a wonderful form of artwork that fascinated certainly my young mind and has stayed with me ever since.

The enamel signs that still adorned so many railway walls, fences, chimneys, in fact every you looked.  No tatty paper, short term advertisements then, but long term statements of intent - we have a great product - it is quality - you should buy it, and it is here for good like our enamel sign!

My early years in retailing, in the newsagent, confectioners and tobacco trade, quality advertisements for "Player's Senior Service", or "Weights Tipped", and Capstan Full Strength" cigarettes were still everywhere.  Even the confectionery could still be found in jars and tins; I still have a Squirrel's Confectionery tin that contained Floral Gums (mmmmmmmmm!!), which inside the lid proudly, permanently, states "Squirrel Confections" made by The Squirrel Confectionery Co. Ltd., Stockport, England

Although a container for use once, it was permanent; it reflected a society that was not going to change!  It was there, British society, safe, stable, reliable, of quality, and permanent!!  So were the enamel signs, and the other handwritten ones on the sides of the buses and coaches we have been reviewing.  It was quality, and of course then legal to advertise tobacco products, so with the vast majority of the population then smokers in some form or another, they advertised everywhere! 

To remind me of what we had then I have pictures in my many treasured railway books which show the "Virol" , "Castings West Yorkshire Foundries Ltd.", "Mackinlay's Scotch Whiskey", Drink Camp It's the best", "Sunlight Soap", "Player's Please!", and many more enamel advertising signs of a past golden age on railway walls of every description!  Yes, the huge advertising hoardings were starting to show to reflect the "new" products of the exciting different age of the late 1950s and 1960s, with the paper-on advertisements.  But the old enamel signs were still there, and the signwritten ones specifically for the sides of buses, above shop windows, and along the front of Pickford's and the like, were still reflecting another old skill, trade, that now, like so many of the products advertised, have gone.  Swept aside by cheaper, international brands in a world were things do not need to last; so reflects the advertising hoardings with flimsy paper adverts, with no need for long term sign written forms!  Quality, gone; longevity, gone; the skills and trades that went with them, gone!

Our brave new world has pushed aside the signwritters and enamel sign makers, with computer generated graphics doing everything far cheaper.  But is it what we really love?  History will tell!

I enjoyed that Lizzie.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

We have lost something indeed Zulu, and as I mentioned earlier those sign written advertisements were part of our childhood; a wonderful form of artwork that fascinated certainly my young mind and has stayed with me ever since.

The enamel signs that still adorned so many railway walls, fences, chimneys, in fact every you looked.  No tatty paper, short term advertisements then, but long term statements of intent - we have a great product - it is quality - you should buy it, and it is here for good like our enamel sign!

My early years in retailing, in the newsagent, confectioners and tobacco trade, quality advertisements for "Player's Senior Service", or "Weights Tipped", and Capstan Full Strength" cigarettes were still everywhere.  Even the confectionery could still be found in jars and tins; I still have a Squirrel's Confectionery tin that contained Floral Gums (mmmmmmmmm!!), which inside the lid proudly, permanently, states "Squirrel Confections" made by The Squirrel Confectionery Co. Ltd., Stockport, England

Although a container for use once, it was permanent; it reflected a society that was not going to change!  It was there, British society, safe, stable, reliable, of quality, and permanent!!  So were the enamel signs, and the other handwritten ones on the sides of the buses and coaches we have been reviewing.  It was quality, and of course then legal to advertise tobacco products, so with the vast majority of the population then smokers in some form or another, they advertised everywhere! 

To remind me of what we had then I have pictures in my many treasured railway books which show the "Virol" , "Castings West Yorkshire Foundries Ltd.", "Mackinlay's Scotch Whiskey", Drink Camp It's the best", "Sunlight Soap", "Player's Please!", and many more enamel advertising signs of a past golden age on railway walls of every description!  Yes, the huge advertising hoardings were starting to show to reflect the "new" products of the exciting different age of the late 1950s and 1960s, with the paper-on advertisements.  But the old enamel signs were still there, and the signwritten ones specifically for the sides of buses, above shop windows, and along the front of Pickford's and the like, were still reflecting another old skill, trade, that now, like so many of the products advertised, have gone.  Swept aside by cheaper, international brands in a world were things do not need to last; so reflects the advertising hoardings with flimsy paper adverts, with no need for long term sign written forms!  Quality, gone; longevity, gone; the skills and trades that went with them, gone!

Our brave new world has pushed aside the signwritters and enamel sign makers, with computer generated graphics doing everything far cheaper.  But is it what we really love?  History will tell!

I enjoyed that Lizzie.

Thanks Z!

I enjoyed researching, remembering and writing on that subject so much Zulu that I have started a separate thread all on its own!!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Look at this beauty Byron has unearthed! A Lancashire United bus 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)



Byron will be telling all of us more later..................watch this space 8-) 8-) 8-)

[Seth]

Here's a 1951 Guy 'Arab' MkIII with Roe 35-seat coach body, and the location is the 1990 'Heart of the Pennines' Rally at Halifax.

It has the revered 8.6-litre Gardner 6LW engine up front, driving through a 4-speed 'crash' gearbox.







Charles Roe bodies were well-regarded within the industry - Burma Teak being the raw material.
Roe later became an AEC company, whilst Guy Motors was swallowed-up into the British Leyland empire.

This coach still earns it's keep with: http://www.cumbriaclassiccoaches.co.uk/arab.asp



Got some logos here somewhere - will see if Lizzie can add 'em on here soon