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[Lizzie_Zoom]

Answering PM sent Di

For everyone else that has followed the MUD 975 story it is now apparent that the poor old coach met it's end in Croyden with a u/s gearbox and rotten rear chassis .

THanks Di for the brilliant detective work!! 8-) 8-) 8-)

[Peachy]

Answering PM sent Di

For everyone else that has followed the MUD 975 story it is now apparent that the poor old coach met it's end in Croyden with a u/s gearbox and rotten rear chassis .

THanks Di for the brilliant detective work!! 8-) 8-) 8-)

Lizzie, thanks for that, it has been my pleasure, but it may not have been scrapped according to the e-mail or am I reading it incorrectly? Did you call the guy in the e-mail?
Until someone tells me they personally scrapped it I am going to keep searching.
D.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Answering PM sent Di

For everyone else that has followed the MUD 975 story it is now apparent that the poor old coach met it's end in Croyden with a u/s gearbox and rotten rear chassis .

THanks Di for the brilliant detective work!! 8-) 8-) 8-)

Lizzie, thanks for that, it has been my pleasure, but it may not have been scrapped according to the e-mail or am I reading it incorrectly? Did you call the guy in the e-mail?
Until someone tells me they personally scrapped it I am going to keep searching.
D.

Yes I think you are I am afraid Di.

John Graham, in his own words or mine by deduction, stated that the Coach was sent to a Peter in Croydon for the gearbox to be repaired, who found he couldn't, plus he found the rear chassis was badly rotten.  It was then scrapped. 

John Graham's only doubt was my picture of it sitting on the drive of my ex's and mine house which he thought was after he had handed the coach over to the aforementioned Peter.  He was incorrect to assume that as that picture was taken c.1980/1 whilst the coach was very much still owned by the railway society that John Graham chaired, and well before any gearbox trouble and the Croydon link

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Well, I don't know where MUD975 is today, but I used to own it until about 1987.

What you have posted about it being at the Mid-Hants Railway at Ropley is correct, but after our group relocated to Bittern, Bristol, the bus was towed to Peter Moor's yard near Woolwich, in 1986. About a year later they were told to leave the yard in Woolwich, and I had a phone call from Peter to say he could not re-home our bus, and that the back end was very rotten, and the gear box could not be fixed, so regrettably I agreed to it being scrapped.

That was the end of the story for me, until I had a call from a friend in Bristol tonight, and the discovery of a picture of MUD975 on Photobucket.

http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/kk247/lizziefreeman/?action=view&current=scan1.jpg#

Now, I have no idea where, or when this picture was taken, but it's post my ownership. I can see the Chiltern Queens lettering has been removed from the side, only leaving the the logo in the circle on the side. The passenger side window has some signs stuck on the top passenger window, and there seems to be some lettering over the front grill. All these things were not done by me, so this picture seems to indicate MUD975 survived post scrapping in 1987.

That's all I can add, but I could look out some old pictures of MUD975 when she was in my ownership.

Thanks very much Col. Gibbon for that great information which actually confirms the worst about MUD 975; it was scrapped!!

The picture I am afraid was taken c.1980/81 when it was on loan from the railway society and John Graham at Ropley to my husband and I with us being Mid-Hants Railway members / shareholders.  After that picture and some future use, the coach went back to Ropley where it sat for some time with dodgy batteries.  After that we moved to Bristol (of all places!) and we lost contact with MUD 975.

Thanks again for your very useful input

I hope you stay around on this Forum as we do talk trains in General Chat every so often!! 8-) 8-) 8-)

[splott]

PM Sent 

Come on Di, I'm bursting to know. What have you found!!!!!!

[Peachy]

PM Sent 

Come on Di, I'm bursting to know. What have you found!!!!!!

Well, I don't believe this is the end of the saga to be honest. There is a Debbie involved here from somewhere?
I am going to keep looking until a person sends me an e-mail and says they put it through the wringer.
P.S I have tonight received two further e-mails and there are well better news, I THINK.
I need to peruse them a little more and pass them onto Lizzie for her to evaluate.....

[Seth]

Answering PM sent Di

For everyone else that has followed the MUD 975 story it is now apparent that the poor old coach met it's end in Croyden with a u/s gearbox and rotten rear chassis .

THanks Di for the brilliant detective work!! 8-) 8-) 8-)

Looking back, it's a pity that I wasn't involved at this point in time Lizzie ......

The 'boxes in those Reliances were pretty well bullet-proof - no doubt I could have sourced one/ changed it for you.

I'd be surprised to find that the chassis was corroded though - more likely to be body-frame rot aft of the rear axle.
Duple bodies of the period had a fair amount of timber framing and were of 'composite' construction.

[Peachy]

Answering PM sent Di

For everyone else that has followed the MUD 975 story it is now apparent that the poor old coach met it's end in Croyden with a u/s gearbox and rotten rear chassis .

THanks Di for the brilliant detective work!! 8-) 8-) 8-)

Looking back, it's a pity that I wasn't involved at this point in time Lizzie ......

The 'boxes in those Reliances were pretty well bullet-proof - no doubt I could have sourced one/ changed it for you.

I'd be surprised to find that the chassis was corroded though - more likely to be body-frame rot aft of the rear axle.
Duple bodies of the period had a fair amount of timber framing and were of 'composite' construction.

I am thinking your direction Byron, I do not believe(yet) that this bus has been scrapped, an e-mail I have received points me that way of thinking, but there seems to be a red herring here somewhere. I will keep on searching
PM SENT Seth

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Answering PM sent Di

For everyone else that has followed the MUD 975 story it is now apparent that the poor old coach met it's end in Croyden with a u/s gearbox and rotten rear chassis .

THanks Di for the brilliant detective work!! 8-) 8-) 8-)

Looking back, it's a pity that I wasn't involved at this point in time Lizzie ......

The 'boxes in those Reliances were pretty well bullet-proof - no doubt I could have sourced one/ changed it for you.

I'd be surprised to find that the chassis was corroded though - more likely to be body-frame rot aft of the rear axle.
Duple bodies of the period had a fair amount of timber framing and were of 'composite' construction.

Yes Byron, I think you could well have saved this vehicle, but I am afraid it was owned by a railway preservation society, and as they bought MUD 975 very cheaply, it was not a top priority in the 1980s to waste too much time on her.  When my husband knew the people involved they were all young and carefree, with not much forethought as what to do with this coach which at first seemed like a prize, then no doubt turned into a liability on Mid Hants Railway property!

Anyway, I have sent the following (open) message to Di to clarity some obvious points of confusion:

"Well obviously the coach may be scrapped, but the story rolls on Di! 

I AM Lizzie Freeman, or more correctly Elizabeth Freeman, but certainly have no connection with any fairgound family, although with my father being in the Royal Navy for 26 years we certainly felt like travellers following him on his drafts!! 

I have no idea who Debbie is, although I knew one well in Bristol.  As for the photo that was taken by ME in 1980/81 when sitting on our drive in Fair Oak, Hampshire, well before John Graham parted company with it.  So nothing special there, with no secret story, more the pity! 

As for the coach being in Thornton Heath................well that must be another story, especially as we have had Col. Gibbons confirm he authorised the scrapping of MUD 975.

Unless someone produces a photo I think we should now accept the coach has gone, one way or another 

Once again Di, thanks for your perseverance with this one!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The location here is indeed Aberavon Beach.

For local BET subsidiary Thomas Bros (Port Talbot) Ltd; 'The Beach' was indeed 'big business' during the Summer months, as evidenced in this early 1960s view of a heavily-laden, (and crew-operated!) bus arriving at the seafront terminus opposite the Jersey Beach Hotel. Miami Beach funfair is just out of view to the right.

[/img]

PTX 202 was numerically the last of four 1955 Leyland Tiger Cubs with durable 30ft 44-seat Weymann 'Hermes' all-metal bodies. The others being PTX 197/8/9.
The engine was the strong little Leyland 0.350; horizontally-mounted amidships and driving through an Albion 5-speed 'crash' gearbox to a very reliable single-speed Eaton/Leyland spiral-bevel rear axle. 

Just like neighbouring BET concerns Western Welsh and Rhondda Transport, Thomas Bros found the lightweight Tiger Cub to be an excellent 'maid of all work'. Little wonder then, that a second-hand Thomas Bros Tiger Cub was pretty well worn-out!

Around half of their 40ish-strong fleet consisted of these useful Leylands - the AEC Reliance being the popular choice for coaching duties and later 36ft service buses at Port Talbot.

The livery was 'Thomas Bros Blue' (or was it 'Thomas Bros Green'?) with cream relief - a hotly-debated subject!
The next (colour) photo of a Thomas Bros bus on Aberavon seafront will show why this was so!

Thomas' buses never carried fleet numbers, and the fleet name font was Gill Sans (in cream).

The fascinating point about this picture is the bus conductor standing at the front of the coach fully uniformed with ticket machine. No loose clothing, only smart company uniform even in Summer.

These officials were the object of much attention by us contemporary kids, wondering about how the conductor turned the knurled 'wheels' on top of his / her machine to give mum the ticket for our journey.

Also worth attention is at least one women on her way in the 'beach' bus fully dressed, with colourful hat, along with everyone else smartly dressed.  As sign of the times then, when adults dressed smartly even for going to the beach (something I noticed when my Great Aunts took me to Hastings in about 1958), and men even wore ties and trousers with braces.  So amusing now, but then it was the norm!

That bus is so typical of the era, and if that is on a hot day, then it would be very warm inside with those tiny windows to open.  BO was a common problem in the days before the mass use of deoderant, and that is one thing I will always remember - along with a teacher who had terribly smelly breath and the boys always smelt of wee.........and should be avoided like the plague!!    But, that's another story!

[Seth]

The fascinating point about this picture is the bus conductor standing at the front of the coach fully uniformed with ticket machine. No loose clothing, only smart company uniform even in Summer.

These officials were the object of much attention by us contemporary kids, wondering about how the conductor turned the knurled 'wheels' on top of his / her machine to give mum the ticket for our journey.

Also worth attention is at least one women on her way in the 'beach' bus fully dressed, with colourful hat, along with everyone else smartly dressed.  As sign of the times then, when adults dressed smartly even for going to the beach (something I noticed when my Great Aunts took me to Hastings in about 1958), and men even wore ties and trousers with braces.  So amusing now, but then it was the norm!

That bus is so typical of the era, and if that is on a hot day, then it would be very warm inside with those tiny windows to open.  BO was a common problem in the days before the mass use of deoderant, and that is one thing I will always remember - along with a teacher who had terribly smelly breath and the boys always smelt of wee.........and should be avoided like the plague!!    But, that's another story!












Aye, you dare not report for duty without wearing a full company-issue uniform in those days Lizzie, else you'd find yourself 'on the mat' in front of 'the guvnor'!
 
However, a concession was a lighter-weight version for the Summer months - I've still got my Western Welsh 'Summer' jacket here!
A light grey blazer with blue collars and cuffs, with gold-coloured 'Western Welsh' embroidered onto the collars. The buttons are chrome-plated with the WW emblem embossed on them.
 

That ticket machine was the ubiquitous Setright jobbie!
 

[Vamps]

Too much writing and not enough pics, if you want to keep it going.......

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The London pre-war bus scene was something my mother and her parents, my gandparents, had as part of their everyday lives, probably taking little notice of it as we take little notice of the scene today.  They went to work, to play, and generally live around these everyday scenes, not knowing how things would soon dramatically change with 30,000 of their fellow Londoners killed during the oncoming blitz (part 1).  But these were the buses they would have been famaliar with.

A pre=war RT113 London Bus with fore and aft route indicator boxes on the roof:



Some of these buses went on to future lives; here is the converted RT buses of the AWRE Aldermastern in the early 1960s:


Here is a RT127 pictured in 1963 at the Upton Park Garage, London:


Between September 1939 and May 1940 the 2RT2's were developed, and apparently 338 of them should have been built, but the outbreak of war and Dunkirk meant building was considerably delayed:


This is a London Transport Utility Bus:


Open Staircase London Bus:








 

[Seth]

Some of these buses went on to future lives; here is the converted RT buses of the AWRE Aldermastern in the early 1960s:



I'm sure that these RTs were actually operated by Smith's of Reading on behalf of the AWRE at Aldermaston.

LUC 101, nearest the camera, may well have originally been a green, (Country Area) bus, as it has platform doors fitted as opposed to the commonplace open platform usually associated with Central Area (red) buses. Maybe someone can confirm?

These RTs were replaced by brand-new Park Royal AEC Regent Vs in due course.




If you look to the left of the RTs in the picture, you'll see the rear end of a Duple-bodied AEC Reliance coach lurking there.
That coach was the earlier, (mid-1950s), version of Lizzie's former Chiltern Queens Reliance MUD 975!
  

Smith's of Reading were prominent AEC operators - their fleet livery being dark blue with orange relief.
 


[/quote]

[Dishevelled Den]

There were, and indeed are, some very interesting people in the bus world


Werner Heubeck, who died on October 19 aged 85, was a former member of Rommel's Afrika Korps who became an unlikely hero of the Troubles in Northern Ireland when, as head of the Province's bus services, he boarded buses personally to remove bombs planted by the IRA; his exploits earned him an OBE and CBE.


More of this fascinating man here;


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/6399856/Werner-Heubeck.html