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[Debs.]

Chatting to the MOT tester the other day, we got on the subject of very-young modern car models suffering what one might think to be problems of far greater aged vehicles.

He noted that he`d been keeping a mental list of the most frequently found serious faults he`d seen upon first MOT tests:
Worn track-rod ends/insecure steering components....snapped/broken/collapsed road springs/struts (small Citroen models in particular).....severely-worn C.V joints and very-poor braking (Renault)....and, the most common of all first-test failures that he`d seen: both front tyres 'worn to the cords' on FWD`s!

For 3 year old cars the faults do seem extreme.....is it an economic-conditions 'thing' or are modern cars under-engineered? :-/

[Omega_Dan]

Chatting to the MOT tester the other day, we got on the subject of very-young modern car models suffering what one might think to be problems of far greater aged vehicles.

He noted that he`d been keeping a mental list of the most frequently found serious faults he`d seen upon first MOT tests:
Worn track-rod ends/insecure steering components....snapped/broken/collapsed road springs/struts (small Citroen models in particular).....severely-worn C.V joints and very-poor braking (Renault)....and, the most common of all first-test failures that he`d seen: both front tyres 'worn to the cords' on FWD`s!

For 3 year old cars the faults do seem extreme.....is it an economic-conditions 'thing' or are modern cars under-engineered? :-/

I think its purely down to manufacturer costs now days and keeping them to a minimum. Most garages are dealing with warranty claims rather than true maintainence work.

Yeah citroen C3's suspension used to collapse quite often Simon72 had an experience of this on his 3 year old C3.

[Kevin Wood]

New cars are disposable now, IMHO. Built down to price that makes them cheap and shoddy and with garage labour rates rendering them too expensive to repair. A lot of customers wouldn't be seen driving a 2nd hand car and then buy the cheapest thing they can find with 4 wheels, on H.P., so who can blame the manufacturers?

Sounds like the attitudes go with it. Use it like any other item of "white goods" (until it falls apart) without a second thought to maintenance - or even tyres, which I suspect is why they are picked up on the first MOT.

And they want to bring MOTs "in line with Europe" every 2 years.

Kevin

[djac]

New cars are disposable now, IMHO. Built down to price that makes them cheap and shoddy and with garage labour rates rendering them too expensive to repair. A lot of customers wouldn't be seen driving a 2nd hand car and then buy the cheapest thing they can find with 4 wheels, on H.P., so who can blame the manufacturers?

Sounds like the attitudes go with it. Use it like any other item of "white goods" (until it falls apart) without a second thought to maintenance - or even tyres, which I suspect is why they are picked up on the first MOT.

And they want to bring MOTs "in line with Europe" every 2 years.

Kevin

Which is a bit of a worry with the EU trying to bring in a ban on home servicing etc. The garages must be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of everyone having to take their cars (and bikes) in for any work.

This will only affect new vehicles though, so should strengthen the used vehicle market.

Until the EU pass laws to have cars over 10 years old compulsorily scrapped!

[Kevin Wood]

Which is a bit of a worry with the EU trying to bring in a ban on home servicing etc. The garages must be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of everyone having to take their cars (and bikes) in for any work.

This will only affect new vehicles though, so should strengthen the used vehicle market.

Until the EU pass laws to have cars over 10 years old compulsorily scrapped!

I can't see that ever flying, TBH. That might just be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Kevin

[humbucker]

it wont happen now, this is from the Right to Repair website:

The UK R2RC Strategy Group has been disbanded, having met the objectives set when it was formed in February 2007. It decided at a recent meeting to recommend to the Automotive Aftermarket Liaison Group (AALG), from which the UK element of the campaign was born, that R2RC end. The AALG accepted that recommendation.

Jim Mazza, the Chairman of the Campaign, said "The motor vehicle specific regulations and guidelines introduced on 1st June 2010, which will run until 2023, are a fantastic outcome and far beyond my expectations. These coupled with other European legislation and directives provide strong protection for the independent automotive aftermarket and ensure an ongoing competitive environment from which the motorist will benefit. The UK Strategy Group is very satisfied with the outcome of the campaign."

He added "The campaign united the entire independent aftermarket which added huge weight to our arguments as we were able to speak on behalf of the whole industry. The success of the campaign isn't due to the efforts of a few people, but due to the actions of everyone who has helped in providing funding and creating awareness by distributing literature, having an R2RC presence at trade shows, exhibitions and conferences and using the R2RC logo. This shows what can be achieved by working together."

The end of the campaign sensibly means an end to the use of the logo which has been licensed for use by FIGIEFA.

The final comment of the retiring Chairman was: "Whilst R2RC has gone I hope that it will not be forgotten. We now know what a united industry can achieve and I am optimistic that, the next time that the whole industry needs a relevant flag to rally round, R2RC is taken out of the cupboard, dusted down and put to good use".

[pscocoa]

Not in agreement with some of the points on here.

Cars are far better built than they were and warranties are being extended to match. The question is as always a matter of quality - if you buy a cheap car then you possibly expect some components to give you a problem - springs, track rods etc are cheap to replace.

If you look at problems we had in past such as issues needing welding eg floor pans, sills etc we are in a far better situation as second hand users.

Cars at 10 -12 years old today are doing well and owners seem to keep them going much easier than in the past - not the rust boxes we had in the past - good bodywork means you value the car more and try harder to keep it on the road

I think we sometimes get confused by the value of the older car on the market to trade in /sell and the running costs to keep an older car on the road. Maybe complexity prevents self repair in some cases but getting by on less than say £1000 - £1500  a year for tax, repairs, insurance in real terms compared to the past is good value and for older cars offsets the depreciation of buying newer.

The market will find its level - eg gearbox reconditioners will enter the market if newreplacements at dealer prices are prohibitive.
Those people that decide to scrap will as now be a source of parts for others.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

I think that there's a hell of a lot of money / time / engineering spent by companies on making new cars safer. I dont think anyone's against car safety, but things have become so obsessive of late (and equally so with emissions I might add) that the sheer complexity of the 'expected spec' of a modern car that many things simply have to be built down to a price even more so, to accomodate. That is if we still want to pay the same for you new car, but expect more mpg, higher ncap rating, more toys etc..

For instance - Just looking at the DELETED spec of the 98 omegas
-Air-con'd glovebox
-Rear demist vents on elite
-load floor net
-seatback pockets on reflection/tourer

That saved money. Money that could, in part, be invested back into rubberised controls, new seat pockets on those models that get them, different interior colour schemes, bose sound systems, etc...Way of the world, I suppose. Theres only so many jelly babies in the pot.   

[Marks DTM Calib]

Chatting to the MOT tester the other day, we got on the subject of very-young modern car models suffering what one might think to be problems of far greater aged vehicles.

He noted that he`d been keeping a mental list of the most frequently found serious faults he`d seen upon first MOT tests:
Worn track-rod ends/insecure steering components....snapped/broken/collapsed road springs/struts (small Citroen models in particular).....severely-worn C.V joints and very-poor braking (Renault)....and, the most common of all first-test failures that he`d seen: both front tyres 'worn to the cords' on FWD`s!

For 3 year old cars the faults do seem extreme.....is it an economic-conditions 'thing' or are modern cars under-engineered? :-/

Most of those items are down to the road condition I suspect.

CV joints I find a less common failure than they were 20-30 years ago (the rubber boots are now a plastic and last MUCH better)

As for tyres, thats cockpit trouble and not helped by the fact even the base end engines put out good ammounts of power these days.

Poor braking on a french car, never! 

So no, I would say the standards have not dropped but the power is up and road conditions are worse

[Auto Addict]

Could it be, and this applies to both very young me and women, that they don't slow down for speed bumps.

Where my mother lives, as it's now student city, being close to B'ham University, most of the roads are 20 mph with speed bumps everywhere.

All the cars I've seen driven by students seem to take them at about 40 mph.

[Teebee]

I think cars are built to a price point but to get a real feel for the situation you would have to analyse by initial purchase price.

People buying a bargain basement C3, Ka etc are potentially stretching themselves to get something new so cant afford the servicing, perhaps because it is new they expect it to last 3yrs without any problems or they plan to chop it in before the first MOT so who cares.

Then look at 3 series drivers, Mondeo drivers etc, the initial purchase price is that much higher so they look after their investment (or the company does).

I'd like to bet that most of his examples come from the first group and not the latter.

[Kevin Wood]

I'd like to bet that most of his examples come from the first group and not the latter.

Yes, that's probably where my feeling came from too. Cars at the Ka/C3 end of the spectrum are in a much more competitive market than they used to be so I suspect they are priced down to compete with the "sit up and beg" Korean imports, etc. I don't think they are as solid as cars in that segment were 10 years ago.

Having said that, I think all manufacturers are achieving more with less and no doubt the state of the roads and the current shocking lack of driving / basic maintenance skills amongst drivers doesn't help.

Kevin

[Phil]

Then look at 3 series drivers, Mondeo drivers etc, the initial purchase price is that much higher so they look after their investment (or the company does).

I'd like to bet that most of his examples come from the first group and not the latter.

Sorry to pee on your chips, but a MAJOR issue with the Vectra C is broken springs, knackerd drop links and worrn front ARB bushes, using your analogy, more expensive cars that are well looked after and they still break far too easily.

Slightly different to the Omega problem as it appears to be mostly fronts as opposed to the Omega rears!

[Marks DTM Calib]

Then look at 3 series drivers, Mondeo drivers etc, the initial purchase price is that much higher so they look after their investment (or the company does).

I'd like to bet that most of his examples come from the first group and not the latter.

Sorry to pee on your chips, but a MAJOR issue with the Vectra C is broken springs, knackerd drop links and worrn front ARB bushes, using your analogy, more expensive cars that are well looked after and they still break far too easily.

Slightly different to the Omega problem as it appears to be mostly fronts as opposed to the Omega rears!

And Audi A4's, Golfs, Mondeos, BMW's...etc etc etc.

Common on all cars these days

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Then look at 3 series drivers, Mondeo drivers etc, the initial purchase price is that much higher so they look after their investment (or the company does).

I'd like to bet that most of his examples come from the first group and not the latter.

Sorry to pee on your chips, but a MAJOR issue with the Vectra C is broken springs, knackerd drop links and worrn front ARB bushes, using your analogy, more expensive cars that are well looked after and they still break far too easily.

Slightly different to the Omega problem as it appears to be mostly fronts as opposed to the Omega rears!

And Audi A4's, Golfs, Mondeos, BMW's...etc etc etc.

Common on all cars these days

But all so much better than common faults like knocking big ends, broken tappets, and bloody great big holes appearing all over the bodywork, with rust everywhere, that I remember of cars in the 1960s into the 70s, when they were well under 10 years old!