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[Abiton]

So, please help this Newbie get to know his g/f’s car, apologies for my wordiness.

Car’s a 1996, N-reg, x20xev-powered beauty/beast. My girlfriend’s owned it for about 9 months, mostly with no probs. Drinks a lot of fuel though, and more and more regularly, cuts out unpredictably from idle (only when hot, I think). The EML was coming on briefly, but going out again, and a garage that we took it to said no faults had been recorded.

My first actions were to check the PCV hose (cam cover-air intake), which was filthy, but not completely blocked, and clean out the throttle body/butterfly a bit. This seemed to improve things for a while.  Then I noticed the other ‘small’ breather pipe… Blocked as a blocked thing on National Blocking Day. Cleared out the valve cover fitting (carefully), and after a struggle cos of access, got the hose off and blew the plug out of that (pea-shooter style).  Couldn’t figure out at the time how to clear the other fitting at the manifold end, found out this week that it too is totally blocked, unsurprisingly.

Did an oil/oil filter change last week, and the air filter’s almost new.

Then I discovered the broken air hose on the SAI system, between the one-way valve and the flap/diaphragm system (presumably zorst manifold heat-soak does these in). Replaced that, but TBH don’t think that had much to do with the observed misbehaviour, cos that’s only ‘on’ under certain conditions, warm-up and over-run, right??
Got a new filter on order for the SAI pump, is that an OK job to change?

New symptom appears over the last few weeks… Revs that don’t always die off when you take your foot off the go-pedal! Not nice…
Took off the ICV earlier in the week and kinda cleaned it a bit, seems to be in OK nick, but the gasket!! Got another one of those to pick up tomorrow…No change to cutting out or strange revving behaviour yet. EML light suddenly coming on more/staying on… Oh no, I’ve ‘fixed it worse’!

Last night I got the throttle body off the manifold (new gasket on order), with caution and some trepidation, giving me better access to the blocked ‘small’ breather fitting. Eventually got a clear path through this, in a straight line, but can’t help thinking that the other two air/vac pipes that join to the same fitting will be similarly chocka.  G/f reports this morning that car behaved better on the way to work WRT the cutting out, but not the revving. Some progress then.

Would someone please let me know what these other two pipes go to, and whether the blockage(s) that I’m almost certain of at the throttle-body/manifold end of these may explain the symptoms? Access for taking the pipes off looks ‘interesting’…

I’ve got the rear crank-breather-mod-box thingummy on order from my friendly local parts counter too, as I gather this helps to prevent some of these probs I’m finding.

Cheers for getting all the way to here  ,

Pete

[Markjay]

As you obviously know, high or erattic idle could be due to vacuum leak or otherwise air leak into the intake manifold, as well as dirty/faulty ICV valve or sticking Throttle Body etc.

But engine keep reving high when accelerator pedal is fully depressed, i.e. not just high idle but at higher rev range, is something else - I would check the connection at both ends of the throttle cable and make sure it is lubricated and moves freely - which the clutch disengaged even a slight pull on the throttle cable can cause the revs to go high. Otherwise the Throttle Body itself... you could try and get a second-hand one from breakers to eliminate it is the problem.

As for cutting off, this could be due to many things such as blocked fuel filter or injectors, problems with plugs/HT Leads/DIS pack, etc.... but to eliminate problems with engine sensors, I would check the fault codes myself (your car should be good for the 'Paper Clip' test - someone else might be able confirm...) rather than rely on the garage, because problems such as MAF Sensor, Cam / Crank sensors, temp sensor, etc etc should all come-up as a logged fault - though I do appreciate that this is not always the case - for example a sensor might have a wrong value which is inappropriate to what the engine is actually doing at the time, but if the reading is not out of the sender range limits it may not actually register a fault...

But I would start with the basics e.g. fuel filter and plugs/leads/DIS. Also a dose of Injector cleaner such as Forte, Redex, or STP will do no harm - even if they are far from being the miracle cure that manufacturers claim them to be...


Hope this helps.

[Kevin Wood]

Check that the throttle body hasn't been adjusted too far open too. A lazy fix for stalling when the IACV is bunged up.

Now you've cleaned the IACV out you may have too much flow through the main throttle to bring the revs down.

Kevin

[Abiton]

Thanks markjay, v. kind

The garage that failed to find a fault a coupla months back put in some 'fuel system cleaner' but I can't say we noticed any improvement.

Have just read on here today about the 'paper-clip' thing, now that the EML's been staying on a while, I'd guess that I should get some info from that.

G/f seemed happy with the idle at 750/800 this morning, and stable, so I think my efforts last night have been rewarded.

I take your point about ignition bits, I tend to dish out that advice to folk on my 'home' site, ClubGTI. Will add to my 'goodies' list... Also will check fuel filter situation,  and throttle cable, Ta.

Does the throttle position sensor ever cause a problem on these, at this age?

Pete

[Marks DTM Calib]

On the idling problems its VERY important to be thorough with your approach.

You absolutely must remove the throttle body and clean it to within an inch of its life, pay close attention to the various vaccum drilling, the idle valve and the throttle butterflies (including the edges of them), before re-fitting, ensure the throttle stop is adjsuted so the throttle valve is fully closed but, not sticking.

Then clean all the breathers well, remember the one at the rear right (where the flame trap mod goes) and its worth removing the metal pipe that connects to the block on the pipe run as well.

Only having done this will it prove reliable and fix the problems...

[Abiton]

Thanks Kevin and Marks,

The throttle body is now quite clean, but could be/will be better. Even managed to clean the edges of the butterfly a bit. It is sitting appropriately closed, but not sticking.

What about the other two hoses that go into the same fitting (as the small breather) at the top of the inlet manifold? I guess a good 'pore' over Haynes'll give it to me. I wonder how I'm gonna get at the clips to get those hoses off  ?

Pete

[Abiton]

Made some progress on this...

Paperclip test tells me that it's the coolant temperature sensor that the ECU's not happy with.

Code 14 "voltage too low" and Code 15 "voltage too high"  :-/ :-/ !

I guess the thing's been steadily deteriorating for a while and now is bad enough that the EML light's on all the time.  I think, judging by the difficulty I had getting a visual on this bit, that Vauxhall are gonna be slipping a new one in for me.  Is it a NTC thermistor type sensor? I know the VAG equivalent on the Gti Golfs are a common cause of running problems, I wonder what the failure mode is?

May not be the only problem of course...

Got the rear breather cleaned out and flame-trap fitted on Friday; and, after a bit of a battle, got my new SAI intake filter on this afternoon.

Getting to know my way round the car a bit now, still lots to do.

[TheBoy]

Made some progress on this...

Paperclip test tells me that it's the coolant temperature sensor that the ECU's not happy with.

Code 14 "voltage too low" and Code 15 "voltage too high"  :-/ :-/ !

I guess the thing's been steadily deteriorating for a while and now is bad enough that the EML light's on all the time.  I think, judging by the difficulty I had getting a visual on this bit, that Vauxhall are gonna be slipping a new one in for me.  Is it a NTC thermistor type sensor? I know the VAG equivalent on the Gti Golfs are a common cause of running problems, I wonder what the failure mode is?

May not be the only problem of course...

Got the rear breather cleaned out and flame-trap fitted on Friday; and, after a bit of a battle, got my new SAI intake filter on this afternoon.

Getting to know my way round the car a bit now, still lots to do.

Not sure where it is on a 2.0l, but it may be worth having a go yourself - lots of people here will be able to geive you advice...

[Markjay]

According to Autodata it is somewhere behind the head where the red arrow is pointing:



Sorry I can't be more specific, mine is a V6....

[geoff]

most problems on 2.0 16v are caused by idle control valve,cleaned mine out with carb cleaner then lubricated valve with little wd40,breathers were clean,but had to back thorttle right off, because engine was reving to hgh,people usual adjust throttle to far to compensate for the idle valve,cleaning out is better thing to do,no probs with mine,runs very smooth now.

[Abiton]

Cheers fellas, Haynes had already told me where to look for the CTS, but unfortunately it's about as inaccessible as it could be. I managed to spot it from beneath, looking around the exhaust, then I could work it out 'by feel' from above/behind. Got the connector off, hoping to find wiring damage, or corroded connections, but no such 'easily fixed' luck... I guess I could remove and replace it by feel also, but I think I'll ask my local Vauxhall to quote, as that'll be far less of a PITA.

Idle valve is high on the to-do list after this, carb-cleaner at the ready!

Thanks for kind help,

Pete

Edit: Booked in for Wednesday morning, quoted £45 all in,  .

[STMO123]

Cheers fellas, Haynes had already told me where to look for the CTS, but unfortunately it's about as inaccessible as it could be. I managed to spot it from beneath, looking around the exhaust, then I could work it out 'by feel' from above/behind. Got the connector off, hoping to find wiring damage, or corroded connections, but no such 'easily fixed' luck... I guess I could remove and replace it by feel also, but I think I'll ask my local Vauxhall to quote, as that'll be far less of a PITA.

Idle valve is high on the to-do list after this, carb-cleaner at the ready!

Thanks for kind help,

Pete

Edit: Booked in for Wednesday morning, quoted £45 all in,  .

£45!  They usually want that just to diagnose the fault.

[Abiton]

Yeah, but I'd already done that... With thanks to my patient girlfriend, who read through all my printouts from this site, didn't give up at the first hurdle when it didn't seem to work with engine running etc. I was operating with a monster 'wedding-reception + pub afterwards' hangover so I needed lots of help!

Plus I've been spending a fair bit at their parts department v. recently, and they're v. helpful and friendly; parts dept right next to service and sales, all one big happy team. Kindly advised me the other day that coolant change/flush etc was something that I'd be able to do myself without difficulty. Nice attitude.

Still curious to know what the other two pipes going to the 3-way fitting on the inlet manifold where the small breather goes through might be/do? Couldn't spot it on the exploded diagrams on the parts guy's screen. One of the pipes goes to some widget right at the front of the engine (O/S), the other one, I can't even see where the pipe goes...
 
I reckon they'll have that CTS replaced in about 10 mins too, as opposed to 3 hours and much swearing, & loss of skin if I do it.

Edit, forgot to say, thanks to those who've advised me on this thread, and those who've created the site, and written the excellent tech info/FAQ type threads. If any of you ever want help on the Pierburg 2E2 carb, as fitted to lots of (mature!) VWs, please visit ClubGti, I've learned a lot on there, and am eager to (try to) help anyone.

Pete

[Gaffers]

I had a veccy with the same x20xev engine and I had very unpredictable bouts of miss-fire at steady high revs (usually on the motorway) causing the eml light to come on and occasional stalling at idle.  Accompanied with a small bit of blue/grey smoke at startup.  Did all the usual checks and even pressure tested the cylinders to check the piston rings, but all ok.  about 6 months in the HG went after a coolant pipe blew at 'motorway cruising speed' with a full boot.  Took the head off and thought I would recondition the head and low and behold a valve stem oil seal had a huge hole in it.  Replaced all the seal reground the valves put it back together and hey presto problem solved.

Just a thought......

[ians]

Pete,

To answer your question about the two pipes...

I assume you referring to the hoses that connect each side of the metal breather port (that the thin breather hose goes on).

If so,  they are coolant hoses.  Their purpose in life appears to be to superheat the metal port so that the crud that builds up inside it gets baked into the hardest substance known to man..  you know what I mean having cleaned it out

Cheers

Ian
(I also have a 2.0 with erratic idling - comes and goes)