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[Raf]

Hi all i was hoping someone can point me in the right direction:

my car is an Omega 2.2DTi on a 51 plate.

(also posted on VXON...)

just as im preparing to sell the old girl she decided to make her feelings felt!

i was going to the airport yesterday to drop my brother off and on the way down i could feel the car skipping a beat but very faintly... i could notice but my bro didnt until we were travelling at lower speed then there was a definate jerk (power cuts out)... no EML at this point. there was a slight puff of smoke i noticed but this could be unburnt diesel.

anyway i got to the airport had a peek around the engine bay and all seemed well (couldnt see any pipes loose; fluids ok...etc). the only thing i had done prior to this problem was put some diesel in her but now im thinking perhaps i put petrol in instead? at the airport i filled her up with diesel so i would say i had in the tank £50 diesel & £10 suspected petrol???

on the way back the stuttering/cutting out was more frequent; i noticed that when you put your foot down hard (but not very hard) it did it more often. when i got close to home i put the car in 4th gear to see if it would rev up. when it got to 4k revs the EML light would come on and the car would power down (like there was no accelerator being applied). then the EML would go out. i only did this once.

any one had similar probs or shed any light on the issue?

all advise IMMENSLEY appreciated...

oh; i have washed the engine but that was a week ago and i have done around 50-60 miles since then with no probs...

[ClarCE]

Hi all i was hoping someone can point me in the right direction:

my car is an Omega 2.2DTi on a 51 plate.

(also posted on VXON...)

just as im preparing to sell the old girl she decided to make her feelings felt!

i was going to the airport yesterday to drop my brother off and on the way down i could feel the car skipping a beat but very faintly... i could notice but my bro didnt until we were travelling at lower speed then there was a definate jerk (power cuts out)... no EML at this point. there was a slight puff of smoke i noticed but this could be unburnt diesel.

anyway i got to the airport had a peek around the engine bay and all seemed well (couldnt see any pipes loose; fluids ok...etc). the only thing i had done prior to this problem was put some diesel in her but now im thinking perhaps i put petrol in instead? at the airport i filled her up with diesel so i would say i had in the tank £50 diesel & £10 suspected petrol???

on the way back the stuttering/cutting out was more frequent; i noticed that when you put your foot down hard (but not very hard) it did it more often. when i got close to home i put the car in 4th gear to see if it would rev up. when it got to 4k revs the EML light would come on and the car would power down (like there was no accelerator being applied). then the EML would go out. i only did this once.

any one had similar probs or shed any light on the issue?

all advise IMMENSLEY appreciated...

oh; i have washed the engine but that was a week ago and i have done around 50-60 miles since then with no probs...

I'd have expected petrol to conk it out completely, as was the case when my housemate filled his pickup up with 50 quids worth of unleaded instead of diesal - we had to drain the entire fuel system, refilled with diesal and it was fine..

If you washed the engine, did you jetwash it, and if yes did you cover electrical components?  It may not be immediately apparent after washing, until corrosion starts on some of the insides of electrical components - then it starts to all go wrong.

I'm not sure if you can on the diesal, but you need to read the fault codes out - on earlier models theres a paperclip short you can do so you can do it yourself rather than pay a dealer.  Someone else here should be able to confirm you..

[Raf]

my initial thoughts are (after some searching & surfing although there isnt alot of info out there on 2.2 diesel engine):

vacuum hose of some sort; could be the one that controls the boost (not sure where it is though), i could have a boost leak when under full load?

sensor of some sort.... perhaps the crank/cam? car idles properly with no fluctuation of RPM.

i cant paperclip test and ive never had codes read (partly becuase i live deep in the pennines and there arent many decent garages round here)...

[Raf]

Hi ClarCE, sorry i was writing my 2nd post before i read yours.

When washing i did cover elec components; used gunk spray and jet wash to wash the engine, ive washed a few before so i didnt really go all out and held the nozzle some distance so that the force of the jet doesnt dislodge anything... but your thoughts on corrosion are quite correct; i will have a look at some connectors too.

i cant do the paperclip test i dont think; i need to find a good Indy; will look at the back of Autotrader to see if i can travel upto one; dont really want to travel too far incase it gets worse; does appear to be getting worse.

we do have one who is apparantly Bosch approved and on my dads 530d he changed the MAF; re-con'd 6 injectors, changed the boost solonoid, O2 sensors & the car isnt quite right. he just reads codes and changes whatever faults are shown... and i know some sensors will log faults even though they are okay (usually caused by something else faulty).

oh and my dad has put petrol in my car before; but he realised when he had put £13 odd pounds in; i just filled it with diesel (luckily these have big tanks so the petrol could dilute more) and it was fine; i changed the fuel filter as a precaution but £50 worth would require to drain the tank.

[Raf]

i had a good look around the engine bay earlier and i cant find anything a miss, took it for a run and it seems better (i.e. not as frequent) but as it gets warmer it appears to become more frequent.

on the motorway in 4th gear @ 4k revs the engine light comes on and the revs back off even if the throttle is still applied... engine light does go off once the revs have dropped to about 3500 rpm.

another observation; when driving light footedly its not too bad but we have a lot of hills around here so when i apply throttle at low revs i do get a jerk or two; but its not consistent... i can set off on a steep hill and its fine sometimes...

at the moment it does appear to be holding out; but i have a feeling if it is a sensor its on its last legs... after reading through here last night i dont think it would be the crank (as it doesnt stall); perhaps the cam sensor but im not sure. i did find a post on the MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor... what does this sensor do and could it be this one?

sorry for the long post

[Raf]

bump  

[Marks DTM Calib]

Firstly, you realy do need to get the stored code read from the ECU....clearly there will be one as the ECU light has been lit...

I would be inspecting closely all the vaccum lines around the engine....and also checking vac pressure with a gauge...

Also worth inspecting carefuly the inlet ducting all the way to the manifold...via the turbo and intercooler...

I personaly am suspecting a turbo problem.....

[Marks DTM Calib]

Should have also asked, where are you....any where near Milton Keynes....

[Raf]

Hi Mark; thanks for getting back to me ( arghhh not the turbo  )

i have it booked in at an indy who has one of those scanners so hopefully i should get some codes. i have it booked in on wednesday and i'll get him to check teh vacuum pipes as i dont have a pressure gauge..., drove around a bit more yesterday and when its cold its definatley better.

is there any where i can get the vacuum pipe lay out on the Dti engine? i say that because whilst looking at the vac pipes yesterday i found a torq bit still on this black cannister type item (i will have to get a picture up but on the drivers side near the wheel arch); on this you can adjust the torque setting ( i think it said 6.9nm Max). ive never adjusted that or know what its for and the car has only been to the garage for normal servicing.... so im just wondering what this thing does... will get a pic up

oh and i live up in the ribble valley (Lancashire)....


would i be able to check the turbo by taking the inlet pipe off and checking for play in the compressor wheel? will also check the intake piping.

thanks once again for the reply...

[Raf]

Just got the car back from the mechanic who plugged it into a scanner and the following codes came up:

P1220 Critical Malfunction 1
P1635 Glow Device Error
P1590 Engine running signal voltage high

he cleared the codes and ran the car again and just P1590 flashed up; he said he spoke to a friend who is a vauxhall tech and he reckons that P1590 is the problem i have. possible cause being "over volt on Pin 39 ECU"; he's guessing the alternator but did add that it needs alot of investigation.

now im used to the "it needs alot of investigation" line and to be fair this problem probably does but what has really stumped me is that they reckon its an electrical fault which is causing the car to jerk and stuff. im confused on that one.... any ideas anybody?

he couldnt check teh vac pipes as his gauge is knackered but reckons they are fine and is adamant that over supply of elec to the engine can cause these symptoms.... he checked the volatge supply at the battery and said that was normal.

would appreciate any advice... kind of hit a brick wall!

[Kevin Wood]

"it needs alot of investigation"

What he means is that you need to put a multimeter on the volts range across the battery and measure the voltage with the engine running at a fast idle and without too many electrical accessories on. Normal indications would be 13.8 - 14.4 volts. If it's significantly over 14.5 he might be correct regarding the voltage regulator (part of the alternator).

Kevin

[Raf]

thanks for the reply Kevin.

the thing with the investigation is i need to put it on the back of his transporter and get the car sent to his mate who is an auto elec (30 miles away); i really dont mind that if its going to get the car sorted but i just wasnt too sure on it being an elec supply problem but then im more of a keyboard mechanic anyway.

Do you think the car could have these symptoms if the regulator has packed in?

Unfortunatley, he cant do anything for a week anyway and i do have it pencilled in with his friend on the 9th. His friend said he doesnt know how long it will take to find the fault which is fair enough as he hasnt seen the car yet; so i have a week to possibly diagnose the fault or atleast establish if the voltage supply is where the issues lie.... all help as always is hugely appreciated....

[Kevin Wood]

It's not unknown for VX regulators to fail high voltage, and it can affect all sorts of systems in the car in all sorts of ways.

I'm somewhat surprised that the car needs to be sent that far for a simple diagnostic procedure that any garage really ought to be able to carry out. It could of course be that there's more to the fault code than what they have said, but if it is simply a high supply voltage it can only be the voltage regulator in the alternator and any garage should be able to sort that out.

Have you had any other symptoms that could be attributed to an overvoltage? (bulbs blowing frequently, other electrical wierdness, etc?)

I would get the car back, test the battery voltage while running as I indicated, and hopefully someone on here with TIS can look up those fault codes and get more detail on what they actually refer to. It could be that it's something simple which you can sort out within the week.

Kevin

[Raf]

there is a closer auto electrician but this guy is his friend so all elec work usually goes to him. ive not messed with any electrical stuff ( i did wash the engine but that was some time & mileage before the problem started); i checked all the elec connectors i could to make sure non were rusty and all were fine. not had any bulbs blowing; elecs been working fine and still are.

his friend reckons a new alternator possibly (without looking & based on the fault codes); anybody know what "over volt on pin 39 ecu" means; i.e. what is the relevance of pin 39?

been googling P1590 but it appears its a common fault code on Subaru's; so hard to see the wood for the trees.

will also check the battery voltage over the weekend although the indy did check this and said it was okay; i'll check it on fast idle also as im not sure if he would have done that.

anymore angles on this peeps?

[Marks DTM Calib]

Excellent.....well ignore the alternator....its not that.....not good diag from the people you have seen I would say....a mile off the mark!

Can I ask that you check around the engine wiring looms, pay close attention to the mass of wires near ecu box by the battery....I think there is a wire shorting to chassis (0V)....specificaly the 5V sensor feed....