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Author Topic: Lumpy Idle on start up.  (Read 1353 times)

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nixoro

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Lumpy Idle on start up.
« on: 06 October 2007, 14:32:17 »

Cleaned the breathers the ICV and throttlebody am thinking I need a new oil separator as its coated could this be my problem.

Removed the rear breather pipe and throughly cleaned

Removed cleaned and resealed the egr valve so this could still be an issue.

Could my 1st thought regards the oil separator be the problem.

What do you peeps reckon it could be.
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Grumpy

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Re: Lumpy Idle on start up.
« Reply #1 on: 06 October 2007, 14:48:55 »

Did you take out and clear the breather jet just below the throttle
body that the smaller breather pipe from your cam cover connects to?

The normal reason for your throttle body and ICV to oil up, is because
this heated jet gets blocked solid with rock hard carbon and the oil mist
is then forced to use the route north of the butterfly valve and pass
through your ICV and throttle body.
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nixoro

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Re: Lumpy Idle on start up.
« Reply #2 on: 06 October 2007, 14:59:01 »

Hi there

I never removed the pipe which comes out the side of below the TB as access was limited also noticed the pipe which goes onto the side of this was hissing a tad held on with a pipe clip not sure what this pipe is so tightened this would need to be removed before removing the pipe from the side below the TB.

Does anyone know what this pipe is and whether this just needs disconnecting and clamping before removal of the pipe which the smaller of the breather pipes connects to.

Abit concerned regards moving this pipe as not sure what it is for or what it does.

Cleaning the TB and ICV not an issue just not sure what this pipe is.

Hope this makes sense

All help on this is much appreciated

Cheers

Roy
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Grumpy

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Re: Lumpy Idle on start up.
« Reply #3 on: 06 October 2007, 15:07:04 »

Do you mean the 2 black hoses that come up from underneath the breather
jet, like an upside down 'V' shape?

If so, these are the coolant pipes that heat the jet to stop it freezing and
connect to a Banjo coupling that swivels around the breather jet body.
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nixoro

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Re: Lumpy Idle on start up.
« Reply #4 on: 06 October 2007, 15:11:46 »

It looks like the pipe runs from the front to the back of the engine behind the injector system low down this pipe then attaches to the side of the small drilling which the smaller breather pipe attaches to.

Hope that makes sense
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nixoro

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Re: Lumpy Idle on start up.
« Reply #5 on: 06 October 2007, 15:15:21 »

Disconnect this pipe then I can remove the pipe which the smaller breather attaches to.

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Grumpy

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Re: Lumpy Idle on start up.
« Reply #6 on: 06 October 2007, 15:23:40 »

It looks like the pipe runs from the front to the back of the engine behind the injector system low down this pipe then attaches to the side of the small drilling which the smaller breather pipe attaches to.

As long as we're talking about black rubber pipes here, roughly the same size as the small
breather pipe, then that is actually 2 hoses that connect to the Banjo coupling. It runs
from the front side of the cylinder head, underneath the injector system, connects to
the Banjo around the Jet, circulates coolant around the Jet via way of the Banjo, and then
the second hose comes out of the other side of the banjo, snakes away beneath the rear side of
the injection system, and curls back up to connect to the rear of your throttle body just
above the 2 Vac pipes that connect to the rear of your throttle body.

Is this correct?
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Grumpy

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Re: Lumpy Idle on start up.
« Reply #7 on: 06 October 2007, 15:25:46 »

Just read your next post. If this is the coolant pipe then you have no need
to disconnect it to remove the breather jet.

I'll find a PM I sent to someone who asked for info and post it.
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Grumpy

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Re: Lumpy Idle on start up.
« Reply #8 on: 06 October 2007, 15:32:22 »

Here's the PM I sent. When you get the Jet out you'll see that it is an Hour Glass
Egg timer shape inside, and narrows down to about 1.5mm in the centre. So don't
drill through it. You'll either make the Jet to large, or if your drill runs off you
could even punch through and allow the suction from the engine to suck your
coolant from the Banjo connection into your intake manifold.  :(

You don't need to remove the Throttle Body or the 2 water pipes to remove the Breather Jet.
 
The 2 water pipes connect to a Banjo Joint that swivels about the Jet.
So you've no need to disturb the pipes. The Banjo, with the 2 water pipes
still connected, will just hang roughly in position when you remove the
Breather Jet.
 
There are 2 metal sealing washers either side of the Banjo, that seal when you tighten
the Jet into the Inlet Manifold below the Throttle Body. So don't lose or damage them
or you'll end up with a coolant leak.
 
I remove the Intake trunking from the throttle body, and I also remove the IACV
to give better access to the Breather Jet. It's a bit of tight area to work in, and
removing the IACV stops you constantly scraping your wrists on it.
Also, you can leave the IACV soaking in Carb Cleaner or Fuel whilst you're
working on the Breather Jet.
 
If you still cannot access the Breather Jet, then by all means swivel the Throttle
Body out of the way, as you did last time, to give you some more room.  
 
Use some long thin pliers to compress the ends of the clip securing the Breather
Hose to the Jet, and use a flat bladed screwdriver to gently lever the clip back  
along the Hose away from the Jet that it connects to.
 
Now put the pliers around the clip and gently wiggle the Hose whilst levering
between the end of the Hose and the inlet manifold with a flat bladed screwdriver
until you've removed the Hose from the Jet body. Don't try just pulling the Hose
off, as it may have stuck to the Jet and hardened and will probably break.
 
No worries if it does break, there's enough spare length in the Hose to remake the
connection if needs be.  Wink
 
Unscrew the Jet using a normal spanner, bit slow this, as it's a 'flat at a time' job,
and then you need to reposition the spanner.
Watch for the metal washer between the Banjo and the Inlet manifold as the
Jet unscrews. It will probably loosen and drop down off it's land and onto the Jet
as a gap opens between the Banjo and the Inlet manifold. If it does, loop a piece of
wire or cotton thread through it to stop it dropping out of sight into the depths
of the Manifold assembly before removing the Jet completely.
When you remove the Jet, ensure that you also have the other metal sealing
washer that fits between the Jet nut that you've been unscrewing and the Banjo
coupling.
You may get a little coolant flow from the Banjo when you remove the Jet, but
we're only talking an egg cup full here.  
 
Once out, I don't drill the Jet, I stand it on end and fill it with Carb Cleaner.
Let it soak and keep prodding it with something thin and pointed, like a darning
needle or something similar. As the carbon softens, you will eventually break
through, and then you can clean it out easily.
 
These Jets are calibrated to give the correct flow through at Idle. If you drill it
and get it off centre or the wrong size, you will widen the jet and then get the
incorrect airflow through into the engine at Idle. This will give you an unmetered
airflow, similar to a split vac pipe.
 
When you refit it, ensure that the metal sealing washers are seated correctly
either side of the Banjo joint, and sitting correctly on the Breather Jet lands.
The one in between the Banjo and the Inlet manifold will keep trying
to slip off. So I found it useful to hold it in position with a small flat bladed
screwdriver, on the Jet Land and against the Banjo coupling, whilst tightening
the Jet back into position.
 
As the Jet starts to bite into it's final position against the Inlet manifold, the friction
between the Banjo and the sealing washers will try and spin the Banjo in the
direction of tightening. So wedge a large flat screwdriver blade between one
of the Banjo water pipe connections and the Fuel manifold to hold it in position
during the final tightening. This will hold the Banjo and pipes in the correct
position and not put them under a strain when fully tightened.
 
Wiggle the Breather Hose back onto the end of the Jet, and then refit the clip,
again using the long thin pliers and screwdriver to aid positioning it correctly.
 
Don't forget to check for any water leaks from the Banjo when you run the engine.
Best to find out now rather than 100 miles up the motorway when you start
overheating due to lack of coolant.  :)
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nixoro

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Re: Lumpy Idle on start up.
« Reply #9 on: 09 October 2007, 14:02:29 »

Ok so I spent the other morning giving the full throttle system and the small breather drilling a good clean but I have since found the pipe which runs from the top of the EGR to the Throttle body housing the rubber connection on the throttle housing has split I'm assuming this will cause the EGR valve not to function properly.

More noticeable when cold but still engine lumpy.

Hoping if I replace the pipe the EGR will function as it should
« Last Edit: 09 October 2007, 14:03:23 by nixoro »
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ians

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Re: Lumpy Idle on start up.
« Reply #10 on: 09 October 2007, 15:36:32 »

Is that the white pipe that runs around the back?  Mine had fractured at the EGR end and was leading to the engine hunting at idle.  So well worth fixing before you go any further.

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nixoro

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Re: Lumpy Idle on start up.
« Reply #11 on: 09 October 2007, 15:41:34 »

Quote
Is that the white pipe that runs around the back?  Mine had fractured at the EGR end and was leading to the engine hunting at idle.  So well worth fixing before you go any further.


Yep the exact same pipe :)

Mine initially hunts on cold start and then idles fine after that.

Not sure how long my temp fix will last used black duck tape around the rubber piece. :-/
« Last Edit: 09 October 2007, 15:42:57 by nixoro »
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ians

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Re: Lumpy Idle on start up.
« Reply #12 on: 09 October 2007, 15:43:29 »

lol - mine was the other way round..   worth fixing anyway.
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