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[jharv]

Hi,
I know that it is very rare for a head gasket to cause problems with these cars but I am fairly certain that it is for my car(Omega V6 CDXi R reg). The problem is that the car is losing approx 2 litres of oil every 30 miles or so !  
The car has had both rocker cover gaskets replaced & checked out at a garage but the oil loss is unchanged and they cannot be certain about the gasket since there is oil everywhere (even with a clean & short drive) but it only seems to be the LH gasket / side causing the problem. There is also significant yellow gunk build-up in the filler cap & pipe reinforcing the prognosis with the water header tank seeming OK.

Because using a garage to replace the LH head gasket would cost more than the value of the car, I am trying to see whether I should replace the LH Head gasket myself before considering scrapping the car. Now I am reasonably OK with mechanical work, but not masochistic, so some tasks like removing the steering wheel pump & air con motor & discharging the air con system just to replace the gasket I would view as a step too far!

I have a Haynes manual for this car and have been put off from attempting this work, but as a last resort I decided to check this web-site and found the excellent article on V6 cylinder head gasket change/ top end rebuild by JamesV6CDX. From this there are some differences as to what needs to be dismantled in order to remove the cylinder head with the article by JamesV6CDX assuming that both heads are being removed. The purpose of this posting is to see if anyone can clarify 5 items to enable me to gain a clearer picture of the scale of the work required, and hence avoid starting the task and then giving up because of finding additional work.

1) Can the LH (nearside) head be removed without discharging the air con & removing the power steering pump as detailed in the Haynes manual (Ch 2C.11.18 & Ch 10) but not itemised as a required task by JamesV6CDX?
2) There seems to be a lot of wiring disconnections to be made as detailed in the Haynes manual (Ch2c.11 items 13 thro 16). Is it really necessary to remove the ECU & its wiring connector & system relay connectors ?
3) Since only the LH head is to be removed, does the timing belt rear cover have to be totally removed or, if the top pulley tensioner & LH camshaft sprockets are removed, can the rear cover be pulled forward enough to enable the head to slide past the rear cover? This would seem to avoid the need to remove the lower guide pulley & water pump & RH cam sprockets (and the need for special tools to achieve this without removing the RH camshaft cover), etc.
4) Does the dipstick tube really need removing ?
5) Why does the exhaust camshaft need to be removed & not the inlet camshaft to remove the head? Is this because it hides some of the head bolts?

Many thanks

[Marks DTM Calib]

Hi,
I know that it is very rare for a head gasket to cause problems with these cars but I am fairly certain that it is for my car(Omega V6 CDXi R reg). The problem is that the car is losing approx 2 litres of oil every 30 miles or so !  
The car has had both rocker cover gaskets replaced & checked out at a garage but the oil loss is unchanged and they cannot be certain about the gasket since there is oil everywhere (even with a clean & short drive) but it only seems to be the LH gasket / side causing the problem. There is also significant yellow gunk build-up in the filler cap & pipe reinforcing the prognosis with the water header tank seeming OK.

Because using a garage to replace the LH head gasket would cost more than the value of the car, I am trying to see whether I should replace the LH Head gasket myself before considering scrapping the car. Now I am reasonably OK with mechanical work, but not masochistic, so some tasks like removing the steering wheel pump & air con motor & discharging the air con system just to replace the gasket I would view as a step too far!

I have a Haynes manual for this car and have been put off from attempting this work, but as a last resort I decided to check this web-site and found the excellent article on V6 cylinder head gasket change/ top end rebuild by JamesV6CDX. From this there are some differences as to what needs to be dismantled in order to remove the cylinder head with the article by JamesV6CDX assuming that both heads are being removed. The purpose of this posting is to see if anyone can clarify 5 items to enable me to gain a clearer picture of the scale of the work required, and hence avoid starting the task and then giving up because of finding additional work.

1) Can the LH (nearside) head be removed without discharging the air con & removing the power steering pump as detailed in the Haynes manual (Ch 2C.11.18 & Ch 10) but not itemised as a required task by JamesV6CDX?
2) There seems to be a lot of wiring disconnections to be made as detailed in the Haynes manual (Ch2c.11 items 13 thro 16). Is it really necessary to remove the ECU & its wiring connector & system relay connectors ?
3) Since only the LH head is to be removed, does the timing belt rear cover have to be totally removed or, if the top pulley tensioner & LH camshaft sprockets are removed, can the rear cover be pulled forward enough to enable the head to slide past the rear cover? This would seem to avoid the need to remove the lower guide pulley & water pump & RH cam sprockets (and the need for special tools to achieve this without removing the RH camshaft cover), etc.
4) Does the dipstick tube really need removing ?
5) Why does the exhaust camshaft need to be removed & not the inlet camshaft to remove the head? Is this because it hides some of the head bolts?

Many thanks
 

Sorry, but there is nothing in your description that sudgests to me headgaskte....not a dam thing.

Consider this, there is only one small high pressure oil way through the head gaskets, all the others are actualy at less than ambient pressure due to the crank case breather setup being fed to the inlet.

When the cam cvoer gaskets were changed, was the breather system fully checked out and cleaned as the symptoms are for more like that of a blocked breatehr setup resulting in a pressurised crank case.

Also, were genuine gaskets used as I have now tried almost all the pattern version and found none that work reliably.

[Entwood]

The left hand (passenger side) rocker gasket can be a sod to do, due to the cable tray getting in the way.

When I did mine I managed to just catch the gasket the first time, enough to dislodge about 2 inches of gasket .. this leaked like a sieve !! - the whole lot had to come off and be redone.

I think it is highly possible this MAY be the problem, and the mayo in the filler is just normal condensation from short runs at this time of year.

I would seriously suggest getting that rocker gasket re-done first - way before considering head gaskets.

[v6man54deg Geffd]

it gives you more room if you remove the timing cover backplate (and you need as much as you can get) you can leave the dipstick tube inplace but need to remove the bolt that also secures the lifting shackle.
you have to remove the exhaust camshaft to get to the head bolts - inlet valves are on an angle exhausts straight up (thats what ecotec means) you do not need to disconnect AC .also doubt its a head gasket problem - yellow gunge on your oil cam is  down to condensation.
have you checked the oil pipes that go to the heat exchanger - as to loose that amount of oil it must be under some pressure - an oil pressure check would be a good idea as there was a problem with this engine giving high oil pressure - should be 1.9 bar idle 5 bar max all other rpm (hot) always best to check pressure first before changing seals and gaskets otherwise you will just shift the leak and be chasing it forever. www.v6technicians.co.uk

Hi,
I know that it is very rare for a head gasket to cause problems with these cars but I am fairly certain that it is for my car(Omega V6 CDXi R reg). The problem is that the car is losing approx 2 litres of oil every 30 miles or so !  
The car has had both rocker cover gaskets replaced & checked out at a garage but the oil loss is unchanged and they cannot be certain about the gasket since there is oil everywhere (even with a clean & short drive) but it only seems to be the LH gasket / side causing the problem. There is also significant yellow gunk build-up in the filler cap & pipe reinforcing the prognosis with the water header tank seeming OK.

Because using a garage to replace the LH head gasket would cost more than the value of the car, I am trying to see whether I should replace the LH Head gasket myself before considering scrapping the car. Now I am reasonably OK with mechanical work, but not masochistic, so some tasks like removing the steering wheel pump & air con motor & discharging the air con system just to replace the gasket I would view as a step too far!

I have a Haynes manual for this car and have been put off from attempting this work, but as a last resort I decided to check this web-site and found the excellent article on V6 cylinder head gasket change/ top end rebuild by JamesV6CDX. From this there are some differences as to what needs to be dismantled in order to remove the cylinder head with the article by JamesV6CDX assuming that both heads are being removed. The purpose of this posting is to see if anyone can clarify 5 items to enable me to gain a clearer picture of the scale of the work required, and hence avoid starting the task and then giving up because of finding additional work.

1) Can the LH (nearside) head be removed without discharging the air con & removing the power steering pump as detailed in the Haynes manual (Ch 2C.11.18 & Ch 10) but not itemised as a required task by JamesV6CDX?
2) There seems to be a lot of wiring disconnections to be made as detailed in the Haynes manual (Ch2c.11 items 13 thro 16). Is it really necessary to remove the ECU & its wiring connector & system relay connectors ?
3) Since only the LH head is to be removed, does the timing belt rear cover have to be totally removed or, if the top pulley tensioner & LH camshaft sprockets are removed, can the rear cover be pulled forward enough to enable the head to slide past the rear cover? This would seem to avoid the need to remove the lower guide pulley & water pump & RH cam sprockets (and the need for special tools to achieve this without removing the RH camshaft cover), etc.
4) Does the dipstick tube really need removing ?
5) Why does the exhaust camshaft need to be removed & not the inlet camshaft to remove the head? Is this because it hides some of the head bolts?

Many thanks
 

[jharv]

it gives you more room if you remove the timing cover backplate (and you need as much as you can get) you can leave the dipstick tube inplace but need to remove the bolt that also secures the lifting shackle.
you have to remove the exhaust camshaft to get to the head bolts - inlet valves are on an angle exhausts straight up (thats what ecotec means) you do not need to disconnect AC .also doubt its a head gasket problem - yellow gunge on your oil cam is  down to condensation.
have you checked the oil pipes that go to the heat exchanger - as to loose that amount of oil it must be under some pressure - an oil pressure check would be a good idea as there was a problem with this engine giving high oil pressure - should be 1.9 bar idle 5 bar max all other rpm (hot) always best to check pressure first before changing seals and gaskets otherwise you will just shift the leak and be chasing it forever. www.v6technicians.co.uk

Thankyou for the helpful info above.
The car has had a minor leak (but so minor as not to require oil fills from the norm) for some years now which was just an irritation as it droped onto the LH exhaust cover/ pipe somewhere & caused fumes which were sometimes dragged into the ventilation system when idling. This was caused when the car overheated whilst towing uphill on a hot day in France (hence my concern about possible cylinder head warp & gasket leaking).
My assumption was that wherever the drip was coming from had given way and was now leaking profusely. The scenario I had in mind was that the gasket had given way from the rear LH cylinder causing oil to be ejected when the cylinder was compressed. I suspected the rear cylinder because the LH rear area is the wettest & hardest to check around.
The car has been on ramps & the garage checked what they could without dismantling items (same time as rocker cover gasket change, NB Vaux parts were used not others). I had assumed that if the oil pipes to heat exchanger were suspect that it would have been noticable when on ramps and because it is in the V then because the front is relatively clean then I am puzzled as to why the oil spray is mainly on the LH side.
The only oil visible on the front & RH sides is on the sump skirt top, presumably from oil running round from the LH side.

The yellow mayo comment is valid; I was concerned because another posting elsewhere on this site highlighted this as a pointer to possible gasket damage. Plus I have obviously seen this before but not as profusely as this until recently.

Presumably to check the oil pressure as you suggest is a garage job ?

I would be overjoyed if I could rule out a LH gasket change!

[jharv]

The left hand (passenger side) rocker gasket can be a sod to do, due to the cable tray getting in the way.

When I did mine I managed to just catch the gasket the first time, enough to dislodge about 2 inches of gasket .. this leaked like a sieve !! - the whole lot had to come off and be redone.

I think it is highly possible this MAY be the problem, and the mayo in the filler is just normal condensation from short runs at this time of year.

I would seriously suggest getting that rocker gasket re-done first - way before considering head gaskets.

Thanks for the suggestion.
I am just suspicious that it is something else because the oil loss was virtually unchanged before & after the cover gasket change.  But as you say something is leaking like a sieve !

The Mayo concern was because as you say you get some at this time of year but the amount seems now to be significantly more. Plus another posting on this web-site raised this as an indicator of possible head gasket problems.

[jharv]

Sorry, but there is nothing in your description that sudgests to me headgaskte....not a dam thing.

Consider this, there is only one small high pressure oil way through the head gaskets, all the others are actualy at less than ambient pressure due to the crank case breather setup being fed to the inlet.

When the cam cvoer gaskets were changed, was the breather system fully checked out and cleaned as the symptoms are for more like that of a blocked breatehr setup resulting in a pressurised crank case.

Also, were genuine gaskets used as I have now tried almost all the pattern version and found none that work reliably.

Thankyou for the helpful advice above. I really hope you are right that it is something else.
I cannot be sure that the breather system was fully checked out but the garage was following the Vaux procedure to my knowledge. I can only say that the oil leak was unchanged after the cover gasket change (i.e. was leaking oil straight after a short test drive) so I would be supprised if the car could pressurise up so fast & blow the gasket on the same side again ?
Yes genuine Vaux parts were definately used.

The scenario I had in mind was that the gasket had given way from the rear LH cylinder causing oil to be ejected when the cylinder was compressed. I suspected the rear cylinder because the LH rear area is the wettest & hardest to check around. In addition (see a reply above) the car did overheat some years back giving concern about possible head warp & gasket damage, lead burn out etc., but because of the time lapse, this would seem to now less likely ?

[TheBoy]

Sorry, but there is nothing in your description that sudgests to me headgaskte....not a dam thing.

Consider this, there is only one small high pressure oil way through the head gaskets, all the others are actualy at less than ambient pressure due to the crank case breather setup being fed to the inlet.

When the cam cvoer gaskets were changed, was the breather system fully checked out and cleaned as the symptoms are for more like that of a blocked breatehr setup resulting in a pressurised crank case.

Also, were genuine gaskets used as I have now tried almost all the pattern version and found none that work reliably.

Thankyou for the helpful advice above. I really hope you are right that it is something else.
I cannot be sure that the breather system was fully checked out but the garage was following the Vaux procedure to my knowledge. I can only say that the oil leak was unchanged after the cover gasket change (i.e. was leaking oil straight after a short test drive) so I would be supprised if the car could pressurise up so fast & blow the gasket on the same side again ?
Yes genuine Vaux parts were definately used.

The scenario I had in mind was that the gasket had given way from the rear LH cylinder causing oil to be ejected when the cylinder was compressed. I suspected the rear cylinder because the LH rear area is the wettest & hardest to check around. In addition (see a reply above) the car did overheat some years back giving concern about possible head warp & gasket damage, lead burn out etc., but because of the time lapse, this would seem to now less likely ?

If they didn't clean the breathers, and they are blocked, the crank pressure has to go somewhere, and cam gaskets are the best place. So, yes, it could fail that quickly if job not done right.

I wouldn't be surprised if the garage didn't bother cleaning breather system.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Thankyou for the helpful advice above. I really hope you are right that it is something else.
I cannot be sure that the breather system was fully checked out but the garage was following the Vaux procedure to my knowledge. I can only say that the oil leak was unchanged after the cover gasket change (i.e. was leaking oil straight after a short test drive) so I would be supprised if the car could pressurise up so fast & blow the gasket on the same side again ?
Yes genuine Vaux parts were definately used.

The scenario I had in mind was that the gasket had given way from the rear LH cylinder causing oil to be ejected when the cylinder was compressed. I suspected the rear cylinder because the LH rear area is the wettest & hardest to check around. In addition (see a reply above) the car did overheat some years back giving concern about possible head warp & gasket damage, lead burn out etc., but because of the time lapse, this would seem to now less likely ?

The crank case would pressurise almost immediately after startup and there is no Vx procedure for cleaning the breathers but.....we have one here  

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152598350

As for the headgasket....have a look at this picture of a head:




The slots around the combustion bowls are water ways.....the larger holes on the right and left side are also water ways and the smaller ones on the left and right are oil return ways......

The bottom line is that the headgasket would have to fail past the water ways first before oil can affectively be pressurised by this route.....this you would definately notice!

And the high pressure oil feed, you can just see this small item in the form of a small milled groove at the top of the head....miles from anything.

Its a very bad bit of diagnosis this head gasket failure.....

As a quick test, pull a plug lead out and have a look for oil in the plug well.

[TheBoy]

Thankyou for the helpful advice above. I really hope you are right that it is something else.
I cannot be sure that the breather system was fully checked out but the garage was following the Vaux procedure to my knowledge. I can only say that the oil leak was unchanged after the cover gasket change (i.e. was leaking oil straight after a short test drive) so I would be supprised if the car could pressurise up so fast & blow the gasket on the same side again ?
Yes genuine Vaux parts were definately used.

The scenario I had in mind was that the gasket had given way from the rear LH cylinder causing oil to be ejected when the cylinder was compressed. I suspected the rear cylinder because the LH rear area is the wettest & hardest to check around. In addition (see a reply above) the car did overheat some years back giving concern about possible head warp & gasket damage, lead burn out etc., but because of the time lapse, this would seem to now less likely ?

The crank case would pressurise almost immediately after startup and there is no Vx procedure for cleaning the breathers but.....we have one here  

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152598350

As for the headgasket....have a look at this picture of a head:




The slots around the combustion bowls are water ways.....the larger holes on the right side are also water ways and the ones on the left are oil return ways......

The bottom line is that the headgasket would have to fail past the water ways first before oil can affectively be pressurised by this route.....this you would definately notice!

And the high pressure oil feed, you can just see this small item in the form of a small milled groove at the top of the head....miles from anything.

Its a very bad bit of diagnosis this head gasket failure.....

As a quick test, pull a plug lead out and have a look for oil in the plug well.

Excellent description , though can you explain more about high pressure oil feed - does it go up that head bolt then?

[Marks DTM Calib]

Yup, comes out of the block gallery, along that slot and up the head bolt into the T vent/gallery.

[ians]

2L per 30 miles is a hell of a lot.

I'm wondering if your camcover(s) are warped, or possibly the seal slipped when reinstalling, or the half moon isn't fully seated - although the later two are unlikely if the loss is similar before and after the seal replacement.

Might be worth sourcing a known good NS camcover and trying that..

[Marks DTM Calib]

2L per 30 miles is a hell of a lot.

I'm wondering if your camcover(s) are warped, or possibly the seal slipped when reinstalling, or the half moon isn't fully seated - although the later two are unlikely if the loss is similar before and after the seal replacement.

Might be worth sourcing a known good NS camcover and trying that..

Thats to much loss for a bent cover IMO....a half moon not fitted, now thats different!

Remember the old rule, find it, fix it......changes based on possibles without evidence = more unknowns.

[TheBoy]

Remember the old rule, find it, fix it......changes based on possibles without evidence = more unknowns.

Good advice. Wish I'd followed it before swapping an engine over last summer.  Actually, I don't as well all had a bloody good laugh