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Author Topic: Water gauge/temperature - 2.5cc V6  (Read 2514 times)

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amba

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Re: Water gauge/temperature - 2.5cc V6
« Reply #15 on: 04 July 2008, 11:46:25 »

I had similar erratic temperature readings till I did a full flush of the coolant earlier in the year.Temp now remains at a hsade under 95 (mid point on my gauge) and only every goes slightly over 95 when stood in traffic or hard driving up very steep gradients and then quickly returns to mid point.
From my experience the coolant should be regularly flushed as for the fairly small cost it is good preventive treatment.
Have also read some where that rad thermo switches do come in different temperature bands so again for the peace of mind would be worth fitting genuine new ones if you are keeping the car or really rely on it like I do.l
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TheBoy

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Re: Water gauge/temperature - 2.5cc V6
« Reply #16 on: 04 July 2008, 11:48:44 »

Quote
I had similar erratic temperature readings till I did a full flush of the coolant earlier in the year.Temp now remains at a hsade under 95 (mid point on my gauge) and only every goes slightly over 95 when stood in traffic or hard driving up very steep gradients and then quickly returns to mid point.
From my experience the coolant should be regularly flushed as for the fairly small cost it is good preventive treatment.
Have also read some where that rad thermo switches do come in different temperature bands so again for the peace of mind would be worth fitting genuine new ones if you are keeping the car or really rely on it like I do.l
If the coolant has been neglected, or car suffered an oil cooler failure, its not uncommon to see rad switch fail.  £18 new iirc
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Re: Water gauge/temperature - 2.5cc V6
« Reply #17 on: 04 July 2008, 12:49:50 »

I have mentioned this in a previous post but I have copied it in here again for information.

I'm sure the explanations given above are the most likely but just as an outside bet it might be worth checking that the earth lead connection at the battery is not deterorating. I had a problem (which I have also read about elsewhere) where the joint between the copper strands of the cable and the terminal clamp has broken down (no visible external signs of this). The symptoms are a high reading on the temp gauge (hovering around the red mark) when in fact the coolant temperature was nothing like this high. The temperature over read is worse in hot weather (which leads you to believe it is real) because the fans are working hard blowing air into the cabin and the rad fans may be working hard as well because of the higer ambient all of which is drawing more current, which makes the resistance in the earth lead  higher if the connection is poor, which in turn makes the cable and clamp hot.
So how do you test this out? When the gauge is over reading leave the engine running and open the bonnet. If you touch the thicker (brown) earth cable close to the terminal you may well find it is too hot to touch. This in my experience is a sure sign that the connection is failing. The other way to check if the lead has deteriorated is, with the engine running measure the voltage across the battery terminals. Can't remember what it should be (13.6?V) but someone here will know for sure. If it is much lower than this try pushing the negative voltmeter probe through the insulation 3 or 4 inches away from the terminal in the thickest of the two cables and see if the voltage is any higher. There shouldn't be any significant difference in the voltage when measured at the terminal and 3-4 inches down the cable.

If it has failed replacing the cable is a bit of a pain as it follows a tortuous route around the engine to a power steering bolt iirc. Around £30 as well!

After two years of expecting the car to boil in hot weather I changed the cable and it has never had a problem in the two years since. Prior to this I changed both rad sensors, the temp sender unit, thermostat and coolant to no avail.

Jon
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Richard A

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Re: Water gauge/temperature - 2.5cc V6
« Reply #18 on: 04 July 2008, 15:46:12 »

The earthing on Omega's and high temp reading, together with fan speeds were tackled a few years ago on a 'Catera' forum. The information regarding the 'fan test' was first posted by Terry Wong at 'Yahoo Catera Groups'. Also highlighted was the fact that all Omega's have the same poistion and size body earthing point, however a GLS model has less electrical items than a Elite, therefore the electrical pull on the Elite is greater, again the Catera people (Catera's were based on UK MV6) suggest fitting two or three addition earth leads to supplement the existing ie battery to body, battery to engine, body to engine, they cost a few £ but make a difference in the hot weather with the aircon on full.
regards
richard a
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Alex Wood

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Re: Water gauge/temperature - 2.5cc V6
« Reply #19 on: 04 July 2008, 15:54:19 »

Interesting! Just to muddy the waters a bit more here's my 2pw. My gauge regularly reaches 100 in traffic (maybe it's 97 in real life) before the main rad cooling fan cuts in. With the aircon on ECO, the temp rises much more quickly than with the compressor running, presumably because the aircon fans are either off or on low speed in ECO mode.

I recently had a near-boiling experience where the main cooling fan and offside aircon fan failed and only the nearside aircon fan prevented catastrophe, cutting in way above 100 and bringing the temp back down to 100. This happened in traffic but the temp never dropped below 100 even on the motorway at 70.

Not having the time to faff too much with diagnosis, I took 2 days off work and replaced the rad, the thermostat and the transfer pipe (ok it didn't take 2 days to do the jobs but there were parts runs by bus involved!) I did all this because I was convinced the fans were only half the story. It felt like a blockage because I assumed that at 70 there would be enough air rushing through the main rad to cool it. I traced the fan failure, completely by fluke, when I pulled this fuse here and found it to be broken.


All was well until 3 weeks later this fuse blew again in heavy traffic with aircon on and again the temp would not drop below 100 even at motorway speed. Replaced the fuse again and it's back to normal.

So lessons learned are: 1. the fans do a hell of a lot more than I thought to maintain normal running temp and 2. I have a wiring issue that is causing this fuse to blow. Far cry from my Monza, which has a Kenlowe-controlled fan behind the rad and nowt else (granted, no aircon either!) and only needs to be doing about 40 to get enough air through the rad to keep the fan off.

By the way, has anybody ever heard fizzing under the plenum cover when the engine's hot? I suspect my thermostat housing isn't sealing properly, which is annoying because I heard it before the thermot**t change as well. I'm thinking of investing in a torque wrench and attempting the cambelt (thanks for the DVD TB!) and when I do I'll check the thermostat bolts. Only two of em so I reckon if they're not exactly right you get a bit of a leak.

Back to the original post: my gauge reads pretty much what yours does and it sounds fine, but flushing out all the old coolant can't hurt. Drain, refill with water only, run it, drain again, repeat about 6 times, refill with 50/50 mix. I had to make sure al lthe old stuff was out because I was putting red stuff in where previously it had been blue and I've heard the two don't like to mix!
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Richard A

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Re: Water gauge/temperature - 2.5cc V6
« Reply #20 on: 04 July 2008, 16:13:47 »

Hello Alex, send me a PM with a email address, by return I will send the 'Fan Test', it checks most things.
regards
richard a
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Alex Wood

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Re: Water gauge/temperature - 2.5cc V6
« Reply #21 on: 04 July 2008, 16:23:09 »

I have it, thanks Richard! Trouble is it makes my heat hurt to look at it, but I guess Omegas and electrics are always going to be scary so I should really try and learn something!
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v6coop

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Re: Water gauge/temperature - 2.5cc V6
« Reply #22 on: 04 July 2008, 16:33:55 »

Quote
The earthing on Omega's and high temp reading, together with fan speeds were tackled a few years ago on a 'Catera' forum. The information regarding the 'fan test' was first posted by Terry Wong at 'Yahoo Catera Groups'. Also highlighted was the fact that all Omega's have the same poistion and size body earthing point, however a GLS model has less electrical items than a Elite, therefore the electrical pull on the Elite is greater, again the Catera people (Catera's were based on UK MV6) suggest fitting two or three addition earth leads to supplement the existing ie battery to body, battery to engine, body to engine, they cost a few £ but make a difference in the hot weather with the aircon on full.

I too had lengthy discussions with Terry and posted his fan test on the Yahoo UK Omega site. I have started a 'how to' with pictures which I will post when I have worked out the details. The point is that earthing problems can lead to an apparent overheat on the temp gauge so check and clean these up before spending time and money replacing other parts which may be OK. As for adding extra earthing wires this could be an alternative solution but surely better (and tidier) to fix the underlying problem (poor connection, deteriorating cable) than have any more clutter.

Jon
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Richard A

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Re: Water gauge/temperature - 2.5cc V6
« Reply #23 on: 04 July 2008, 16:54:14 »

Hello Jon, yes I agree but when I looked below the battery and saw all the cable luggs attached to one threaded stud, it is easy to see the potential problem. With regards to the 'Fan Test' disregard the 'New Adjustable Fan Switch - Hayden 3653" that was to introduce a manual override in extreme temperatures in America. please make contact if you want a 'walk through' the test.
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richard a
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Richard A

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Re: Water gauge/temperature - 2.5cc V6
« Reply #24 on: 04 July 2008, 17:08:14 »

Sorry Jon, yes you did on 28th May 2007 from Terry's post back in 2006, I found him to be very knowledgeable and friendly, for an American.
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richard a
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GPar

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Re: Water gauge/temperature - 2.5cc V6
« Reply #25 on: 05 July 2008, 16:48:32 »

Quote
Yes, however there are 'two thermostatic switches' located on the near side of the radiator below the top hose, they both have three wires. The top one is the primary switch, it controls - 1) low temp, all fans on low, 2)medium temp, only aircon fans on low 3) high temp, only engine fan on high. The secondary switch controls 1) medium temp,aircon fans on high. Send me a email and I will send you a 'fan test method'.

regards
richard a

I am now wondering if I have a problem with my fans as my cruising temperature is fine but in traffic there does not seem to be any intermediate fan cooling and the temperature on a warm day in traffic continues to rise to 98 degrees (I have the 90-100 gauge) when the main fan cuts in. If the secondary switch only controls the air conditioning fans then that is surely not going to affect engine temperature that much is it? Perhaps I have a problem with the primary switch? I would be grateful to receive your test details so have sent you a pm Richard.

Geoff
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Richard A

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Re: Water gauge/temperature - 2.5cc V6
« Reply #26 on: 05 July 2008, 20:41:01 »

Sorry for the delay, 'Fan Test' sent.  :y
regards
richard a
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richard a

GPar

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Re: Water gauge/temperature - 2.5cc V6
« Reply #27 on: 05 July 2008, 22:34:38 »

Many thanks for the test sheet Richard. Now I may be a bit thick here, but the sheet seems to be indicating the trip temperature for fans to come on at low speed is 212 degrees F which,by my reckoning, is 100 degrees C. Bit late then isn't it? High speed comes in at 230 degrees F i.e. 110 degrees C - very late!

As I say, probably me but could you clarify?

Thanks again

Geoff
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