Omega Owners Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Please play nicely.  No one wants to listen/read a keyboard warriors rants....

Pages: 1 [2] 3  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start  (Read 4048 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Derek_in_Penzance

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Penzance, Cornwall
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start
« Reply #15 on: 07 July 2008, 16:00:48 »

Quote
Quote
I have now fitted a new crankshaft sensor. Still no go. Help! (3.0 Omega 1998 mini-facelift with LPG).

The EML was showing code 19 -crank sensor. No other codes showing. It still shows 19 -is that because the fault is still there or because I have not wiped the fault code from the ECU memory (how do I do that?).

Not sure where to go from here... these cars are a nightmare!

I imagined that the car would fire up straight away, even though the 19 fault code is still stored. If I've done nothing wrong with the crank sensor then maybe there is some other additional fault that does not show up on the paperclip test.
 
Any ideas? Thanks!
back to basics. fuel? spark?

Yes, looks like it -just wanted to make sure that I hadn't missed something peculiar to Omegas like having to open and shut the bonnet six times while dancing a jig before the car would agree to start.

OK -back to basics then. Probably I have left a wire or a plug off somewhere. I'll see whether I have a spark first, then fuel.
Logged
Go to Facebook and become a Fan of the GM6 Spares Facebook page. Omegas dismantling, mail order parts & servicing. Tech 2 services available.

Martin_1962

  • Guest
Re: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start
« Reply #16 on: 07 July 2008, 18:53:02 »

All so tight so they can drop a complete lump in.

Where do you get LPG from?
Logged

Derek_in_Penzance

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Penzance, Cornwall
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start
« Reply #17 on: 07 July 2008, 22:02:06 »

Quote
All so tight so they can drop a complete lump in.

Where do you get LPG from?

I haven't got as far as buying any LPG yet. At the rate I am going, I may never do so. Instead the car may end up in pieces. But I'm not giving up yet...

There is no spark, fault code insists that there is still code 19 -interruption of crankshaft sensor circuit (according to Haynes Fault Codes book). Having just fitted a new sensor, and cleared the original fault code by disconnecting battery for 5 minutes, code 19 still persists. The three wires from the sensor all go to the injection ECU and earth so I am now thinking that one wire has become damaged between the sensor plug and the ECU. This figures as I did push it about a bit in the battery/relay box area when replacing my ABS ECU.

There are no other fault codes.

Before looking at the crank sensor, I did check the plug to the ignition coil pack and all seems OK -there is power to the 2.5mm black wire Pin 4 (I think) when I turn the ignition on. So all it is waiting for (I think) is the signal from the crank sensor to generate a spark.

That's all I can think of so far tonight. I'm going home to clear my head and tackle it again when I feel inspired.

Good news on one front -the speedo and rev counter needles flicker when I turn the ignition on, so maybe the ABS ECU repair has been successful and it has come back to life!
Logged
Go to Facebook and become a Fan of the GM6 Spares Facebook page. Omegas dismantling, mail order parts & servicing. Tech 2 services available.

Derek_in_Penzance

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Penzance, Cornwall
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start
« Reply #18 on: 08 July 2008, 19:51:17 »

(3.0 Elite 1998)

So this afternoon I did a continuity test on the three wires that go from the crank sensor plug to the engine ECU (according to the wiring diagram). All showed no continuity, as per fault code 19. I can't quite figure this out. It's as if a plug is disconnected, but I can't for the life of me see any plug in the short section of wire that goes from the crank sensor plug straight to the ECU, disappearing in the thick mass of main loom wires as it does so.

The car has LPG, so I thought maybe this wire has been interrupted, for a takeoff to the LPG brains, but I can't see anything.

I'm going to bypass the whole lot with some new wiring straight from the ECU pins to the crank sensor plug. Is there any reason why I should not do this?

Before I do I suppose I'd better try to check the wires where they go into the plug, as it does happen that pins get dislodged -but all three of them? I'm flummoxed! The plug by the way is not where it is supposed to be, it is cable tied to brake pipes just above the steering idler.

Before I started on this major job (ABS ECU replacement and RH exhaust manifold "blow") the car was running fine, other than no speedo etc, so it's obviously something that I've done that has caused this problem.  :-[

Logged
Go to Facebook and become a Fan of the GM6 Spares Facebook page. Omegas dismantling, mail order parts & servicing. Tech 2 services available.

Derek_in_Penzance

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Penzance, Cornwall
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start
« Reply #19 on: 12 July 2008, 16:11:53 »

Welcome back to my nightmare! Just to remind readers, it's an April 1998 mini-facelift 3.0 Omega Elite Estate. I bought it with a duff ABS ECU and a blow from the exhaust. I drove about 30 miles trying it out and it ran fine on petrol and LPG. So I then fixed the two major faults. After much work, new oil, water, etc, all ready to fire up -and nothing. No spark. Paperclip test shows 19 -interruption/failure?  of crank sensor/circuit. No other faults show, not even 31, engine not running.

So I buy a new crank sensor and fit it. Still no joy. Realise that 19 is "interruption of rpm signal" according to Haynes manual, so I do a  continuity test on the wires that go from the sensor plug to the ECU. Brown, grey/red, grey/black. No continuity on any of the three wires. Strange. So I think, well, I moved the big fat loom around while doing the ABS ECU, so maybe I have disturbed the wires -maybe even broken them. Also realise that LPG ECU must need the same info, so there must be a takeoff from the wiring somewhere for that. A plug maybe? Have I left it unplugged?

I search high and low for a missing plug, and can find nothing. However there is a loose plug over by the LPG ECU, the plug is the crank sensor type, and it has three wires -blue, brown and white. White rings a bell -it is shown in a back-of-the-envelope schematic diagram of the LPG system that came with the service history folder. White wire for rpm signal. Looking at my photos of the engine bay before I started the major work on it, it shows this wire disappearing under the scuttle cover just by the brake cylinder. But I can't find anything for it to plug into. I have searched and searched. The three pins in the plug look dirty and unused. So I assumed that this lead and plug was redundant and just stuffed under the scuttle out of the way. See third photo below.

Eventually I decide to connect the new crank sensor directly to the engine ECU, as in the photo below. I adapted a crank sensor plug off a scrap Carlton, and wired it directly to the ECU pins 19 (earth) and 48 & 49 (grey/red, grey/black). The original wiring was left in place, other than disconnecting the original female plug. So any taps into it for the LPG etc are still there. My new wiring simply bypasses everything.

The battery is disconnected all this time of course, so the original fault code should have been cleared. Switch back on, knowing that crank sensor is now firmly connected to the ECU and guess what -still fault code 19! Still no spark!  (Go to next paragraph below)



My new wiring. Of course if the Omega deigns to start, I won't leave it like this, it will all be tidied up neatly.



General view of the engine bay.



Here is the mysterious plug branching off from the LPG ECU wiring.



Here is the LPG ECU.

So I am now at my wit's end. I just cannot figure out what is wrong. I have also tried it with the LPG ECU disconnected -same result. Whatever I do, the car tells me I have fault 19. Still no spark.

If anyone can shed any light on this, I will be eternally grateful, because at the rate I am going, this car will end up in pieces on eBay. That would be a shame, because I really need this capacious, 3-litre estate to work for me, so that I can visit my family in Essex without having to sell my soul for petrol. There is also a good chance that I will slash my wrists, as the car has cost me a fair amount in parts and time that would otherwise have earned me money restoring Monzas.
In fact if it ever runs again, the cost will have far outweighed the saving in LPG over petrol!

Help! I'm sure that I have done something silly, like leave a plug disconnected, but I just can't see where, and I have searched all over this engine with my halogen head torch in the dark (the best ever way to spot rust under a car when thinking of buying -look at it in the  dark witha  halogen head torch).

Any ideas are welcome!
Logged
Go to Facebook and become a Fan of the GM6 Spares Facebook page. Omegas dismantling, mail order parts & servicing. Tech 2 services available.

markey mark

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • SLady bitshorpe north lincs
  • Posts: 4236
  • banned for repeatedly reneaging on deals.
    • View Profile
Re: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start
« Reply #20 on: 12 July 2008, 17:20:55 »

if your getting code 19 it wont go mate but a new genuine crank sensor from vx will help and the code will be stored for 20ish clean starts so even if you fit a brand new the code will still be there untill the car has been started and run at least 20 times ! :(
Logged

davlad22

  • Omega Knight
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Sunny Yorkshire
  • Posts: 1170
    • View Profile
Re: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start
« Reply #21 on: 12 July 2008, 19:43:26 »

 :o You brave man!

....as markey says, crank sensors have known to be faulty out of the box on more than one occasion  ::) Lads on here suggest only genuine GM crank sensors.

Hell, 10% of the AV electronics we unbox at work are faulty...straight out of the box. Go figure!

Good luck mate  :y
Logged

Derek_in_Penzance

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Penzance, Cornwall
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start
« Reply #22 on: 12 July 2008, 20:07:32 »

Oh happy day! It is running!

Yes, it really is  :) :) :) :y :y

I can't believe it, after all the trauma of the last few weeks. The hellish Saturday trying to extract six screws from the ABS ECU, not knowing where they really were or even what they looked like. The relief when it went back on after being repaired,  without as much trouble as I'd expected. The buying of various tools that I hadn't needed for older, less complicated cars. One spanner just to undo one torx bolt! (on the exhaust)  etc etc etc etc  :'(

The embarrassment of realising that I'd set out to change an exhaust manifold gasket when it was just a  rubber pipe, fixable in ten minutes. The further red face  :-[ when I turned the key and it wouldn't start. And so on and so on.

I will never know whether the crank sensor was really at fault, because I've fitted a new one now and I can't be bothered to hook up the old one again (but it's still there for the moment, wrapped around the exhaust as per original). But the reason for no spark? Simple really -just bad connections at the plug onto the distributor pack. I thought it might be suspect because it was a bit dirty (cloudy terminals from dampness) but because this car is new to me, I was blinded by its complications, made worse by the extra pitfalls of the LPG installation. I assumed it was something more complex that was wrong when really it was dead simple. How many times have we made that mistake?  ::)

So now, the engine is running, it sounds sweet as a nut, and all I have to do is tidy up and make sure that there are no wires etc dangling about. Oh, and figure out where that long vacuum pipe goes!

So all I have to do now is go for a quick drive up the lane, just to assure myself that it really is true, set the radio and CD code, and enjoy blissful Omega motoring. Until the MOT that is, which is the next hurdle.

Many thanks to all those who have helped with various posts, and to the helpful guides in the Maintenance section. Don't rest though, I'm sure I will soon be back with more problems!  :y
Logged
Go to Facebook and become a Fan of the GM6 Spares Facebook page. Omegas dismantling, mail order parts & servicing. Tech 2 services available.

Andy B

  • Get A Life!!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Bury Lancs
  • Posts: 39777
    • ML350 TDM SmartRoadster
    • View Profile
Re: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start
« Reply #23 on: 12 July 2008, 21:33:32 »

Quote
Oh happy day! It is running!

Yes, it really is  :) :) :) :y :y

.......

Wahey!! Well done Derek for your perseverance.
Logged

davlad22

  • Omega Knight
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Sunny Yorkshire
  • Posts: 1170
    • View Profile
Re: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start
« Reply #24 on: 12 July 2008, 22:07:11 »

Quote
So now, the engine is running, it sounds sweet as a nut, and all I have to do is tidy up and make sure that there are no wires etc dangling about.
Is this the first time it's been running properly then since you purchased it!?! Credit to your hard work mate! The omega V6 does sound absolutely silky though when it's running right! Everybody these days are buying diesels but it's really nice to get in a petrol motor like the omega and not realise the engine is even ticking over!...until you plant your right foot  :D Soooo much better than our clattery diesels!

Quote
Oh, and figure out where that long vacuum pipe goes!
Is that one near the HBV (heater bypass valve)??? People are always going on about that...if it's that, i'm not sure, but I don't think it goes anywhere!?!  :-?
Logged

Dazzler

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Haverhill, Suffolk
  • Posts: 4198
  • Drive it like you stole it......
    • View Profile
Re: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start
« Reply #25 on: 12 July 2008, 22:39:03 »

If its auto Derek and at the back of the engine then its just the overpressure tube for the auto box, it goes nowhere, just leave it where it is ;)

Glad you finally got it running, a top job :y
Logged
Big jobbies now finished.....Now running on LPG

less

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Hemel Hempstead
  • Posts: 867
    • 2.6 auto saloon
    • View Profile
Re: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start
« Reply #26 on: 12 July 2008, 22:44:39 »

Halleluyah!!!!! 8-)
Well done mate, that's sterling work! There is a real nest of nasties under the bonnet and as soon as you have a problem, it all looks a bit dodgy!

Glad it's sorted.......Now you have to tidy it all up again  ;)
Logged

markey mark

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • SLady bitshorpe north lincs
  • Posts: 4236
  • banned for repeatedly reneaging on deals.
    • View Profile
Re: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start
« Reply #27 on: 13 July 2008, 01:29:50 »

top man well done top job !! :y :y
Logged

Martin_1962

  • Guest
Re: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start
« Reply #28 on: 13 July 2008, 09:09:12 »

Cable - computer terminal (for programming ECU)
Pipe - auto box breather
Logged

Derek_in_Penzance

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Penzance, Cornwall
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Coolant Low - SAFE showing on display -won't start
« Reply #29 on: 13 July 2008, 19:47:57 »

Thanks for the identification of the mysterious redundant plug, that makes a lot of sense and it had not even occurred to me.

The pipe isn't the auto gearbox breather pipe (about 8mm dia) that is at the back of the engine. It's this one:

 

I'm sure I could find a home for it but if anyone knows instantly where it goes that would save me a bit of headscratching! There's a bit of a melt on it which suggests it was close to the exhaust at some point in its travels around the engine bay.

Latest drama: I went for a 10-mile test drive last night and was quite impressed by how lively it is. When I got back though as soon as I switched off, the temperature gauge went right up past 100 degrees. Turns out that none of the fans were working. It has taken me all afternoon to figure out why. I had left two red wires off the positive terminal on the battery. Again, I felt a bit of a twit, but with all that stuff around the battery and fuse/relay box they had slipped down out of sight.  So I've just returned from another test drive and this time all is well, with the fan(s) whirring away for a minute or so after I'd switched off, and the temperature normal.

So as far as I can see, everything works; speedo, ABS, TC, cruise, electric seats, sunroof, all four windows, central locking, stereo, CD, even the Carin sat nav guided me faultlessly to my test destination. Gas has stopped working though as I've run out of LPG! I'll fill up tomorrow. If I can get it through the MOT without any significant further expense I will be a happy man.  

Thanks again to all those posters who have offered advice and encouragement thus far. :)
Logged
Go to Facebook and become a Fan of the GM6 Spares Facebook page. Omegas dismantling, mail order parts & servicing. Tech 2 services available.
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.017 seconds with 17 queries.