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[feeutfo]

been harbouring this idea for a while, personally i don't like the way the omega bushes allow so much movement in the steering wheel,ie pulling/twisting the wheel in your hands, even with new heavy duty bushes pressed in to wishbones by Marks dtm fitted and torqued correctly, there is an improvement, but it still bothers me as its still there. So....

 Fitted these to a Volvo C70 t5 turbo yesterday, seems a far better way of going about it, not to mention easier to fit, jack up to jack down 55 mins. looking at it and driving the car tells me there is far less movement in the bushes.

 But the whole thing is a completely different design, obviously. So will either need a complete re work of the sub frame by removing the brackets and drilling through to weld in a spacer to take the 65nm torque, angle tighten 120 degrees and the forces from the wheel,
 not the best. Or far better, fitting of another sub frame that fits with this design of wish bone bracket already incorporated. Does such a thing exist in the GM range? maybe new shape vectra or signum, monaro/vxr maybe?

pics below....

the old C70 wb, note square blocks to bolt through and smaller bushes


new one fitted, not so clear a pic.


a closer look at the bracket to sub frame, the studs showing through the square blocks are the ends of the bolts which bolt through from the engine side, this involved jacking the engine to give clearance but was easy as there's enough movement in the engine mounts when bolted up.


what do you think???   :-/

[feeutfo]

well, a quick google does not look hopefull. From what i can tell, most suitable candidates look to have similar style wishbones to the omega, but with smaller bushes.

[Turk]

I changed mine last year and kept the old w/bones with the intention of getting poly bushes made up and fitted in readiness for the next change. Now I can't find the old w/bones !!  

[Dazzler]

I think poly bushes is the easiest route, and cheapest to go down and would remove alot of the excessive movement and will last alot longer.

I'm sure someone on here once was going to have some made and then get a price for the club.........but i cant remember who... :-?

[SP_3.2]

Can,t recall but are these the ones from BMW that will fit ours

http://www.priracing.com/product.php/1341/1/bmw-e36---front---control-arm-lower---rear-bushes

[Dazzler]

Can,t recall but are these the ones from BMW that will fit ours

http://www.priracing.com/product.php/1341/1/bmw-e36---front---control-arm-lower---rear-bushes

I haven't a clue on that one :-/

[feeutfo]

polly bushes, as i understand them, are the opposite end of the bush spectrum to omega bushes. On the omega you have almost zero feed back from the road due to the very soft nature of the standard bushes which can only degrade with age, but forget the deterioration for a minute.
 
Assume we have a brand new mig all tip top and working. In my experience i dont think it will  possibly  eradicate all pulling on the wheel due to the comfort level designed in. By that i mean complete isolation from the road surface, no road noise, minimal shock transmitted to the car by bumps and road imperfections. Fine for comfort of passengers but, it seems, a bit of mare for the driver, namely me. Because the bushes are so soft they deflect easily, tram lines in lane 1 of most motorways caused by lorrys being an obvious example. Im fairly sure youll never get rid of any reaction to this sort of imperfection in the road, and nor would you want to . But for me the omega is too readilly pulled about, requiring constant correction.
 Then, on the other end of the dial we have poly bushes. At the Wheels in motion knowledge day a gent attending, who's name escaped me, had had some made. And reported zero pulling, but when asked"are they harsh?" he replied yes, very, iirc.

 ....to me, neither are totally acceptable. A compromise no matter how you look at it. You can have one or the other to varying degrees. But never have total accuracy without a harsh feel.

So what to do?
 
I have spoken to an omega owner who traded for the new shape vectra when it came out, he reported zero pulling and a comfortable yet accurate ride. From what i can tell by searching google images of vectra/signum/vxr wishbones, they are a similar design to the omega, but with considerably smaller bushes.

The C70 seems similarly accurate to the vectra, with no real harshnes. This design,as pictured, seems desirable but not necessary if the vectra/omega owner is to be beleived.

I dont suppose for one minute another vx wishbone with smaller bushes would fit, vecta maybe?

[razzo]

you could always poly bush them, did these myself



or you maybe able to get them made up here
www.custompolyurethane.co.uk

its a great mod if you like enthusiastic driving but its not cheap  

[PxMetro]

you could always poly bush them, did these myself



or you maybe able to get them made up here
www.custompolyurethane.co.uk

its a great mod if you like enthusiastic driving but its not cheap  

I follow this thread with much interest, as my car suffers from the same symptoms as Mr chrisgixer has been talking about. Your pictures shows the horizontal bush changed to a poly bush, but what did you do with the vertical bush at the other end of the arm? :-/

[razzo]

i left the vertical bush as standard but you could change it if you want to

[feeutfo]

thanks for the pics Razzo, interesting.
Couple of questions.

Is the side harsh, ie vibey, rumbley, road noise?  

How do they cope with the rotation of the arm as the suspension moves? There seems to be no "twist" in the material.
 If they rotate in the wishbone i wonder if this would wear the bush? Could a bearing be inserted?

And of course, how much?

Cheers.

[razzo]

thanks for the pics Razzo, interesting.
Couple of questions.

Is the side harsh, ie vibey, rumbley, road noise?  

How do they cope with the rotation of the arm as the suspension moves? There seems to be no "twist" in the material.
 If they rotate in the wishbone i wonder if this would wear the bush? Could a bearing be inserted?

And of course, how much?

Cheers.

ride is not harsh but you get more info fed up through steering wheel & feels alot tighter than standard bushes

Don't get any vibrations , but left rear bush in arm as standard as i was told changing it would cause more vibration

No more rumbling or road noise over standard bushings

Copes with arm movement very well. The crush tube is not bonded to the inside of the bush & the bush does not rotate in its housing. As the bolt is tightened the crush tube is clamped & the bush articulates around the tube which has a ground finish, reducing wear rate

Took it to the WIM meet last year & mine & Paul's ( VX1 ) were the only 2 cars Tony could work on iirc

As to cost i bought the round polyurethane bar which comes in 300mm lengths, had it cut & machined to size & had the tubes made to size from stainless steel, so all in all i ended up with 5 bushes for around £200 & the steering is as good today as when i first fitted them

[Dazzler]

I fitted poly bushes to a friends Vectra GSI, the ride is no more harsh or noisey but the steering is sharper/move responsive.
You can get different poly hardness too just to confuse things a little more.

[feeutfo]

 hmm, interesting. In all honesty i would rather stick to a traditional bush set up of some sort. Not really sure why. Wonder, if poly is the answer,why its not use in production?But if non can be found then polys it will have to be by the sound of it.

I alreay have heavy duty Meyle bushes.
Is there really no firmer, non poly, alternative?
Anyone?

[feeutfo]

shameless bump knowing Marks DTM is on line.