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[twiglet]

I have just bought a 53' Plate 3.2 Elite Estate with 94k and FMDSH up to 55k. No documented SH since although Cambelt was changed at 81k.

When I collected the car, the coolant was at the correct level, nice and clean, and an orange colour (I believe this is the long life coolant?).  The engine is lovely and quiet and seems to run very well indeed.

I did notice that the check control throws up at warning about the coolant level being low at startup, but I put this down to a faulty level sensor.

However, when I got home some 200 miles later, I opened the bonnet to discover an empty header tank!!  2 litres of water later and I now have tiny little oily deposits in the header tank!!!

I have spoken to several people, who are saying it might not necessarily be head gasket (god I hope not!!), and it would seem that there could be several different causes of the problem...

The trouble is, I really have no idea where to start with this.  How do I start to isolate the problem without pulling it all apart? If anyone has a step-by-step guide to rectifying this, it would be great!

I have a basic grasp of machanics, but I'm no expect, so go easy on me please...

The other option is I drive another 200 miles back to the garage I got it from and demand my money back! Although I'm worried what state the coolant would be in by the time I get there...

Cheers

James

[tunnie]

Red is long life GM coolant, first off check the HBV its at the back of the engine, and its a common cause for water leaks.

[twiglet]

Can you get to this without taking off the manifolds? And how would this explain the oil in the header tank?

[joshwyatt]

I have just bought a 53' Plate 3.2 Elite Estate with 94k and FMDSH up to 55k. No documented SH since although Cambelt was changed at 81k.

When I collected the car, the coolant was at the correct level, nice and clean, and an orange colour (I believe this is the long life coolant?).  The engine is lovely and quiet and seems to run very well indeed.

I did notice that the check control throws up at warning about the coolant level being low at startup, but I put this down to a faulty level sensor.

However, when I got home some 200 miles later, I opened the bonnet to discover an empty header tank!!  2 litres of water later and I now have tiny little oily deposits in the header tank!!!

I have spoken to several people, who are saying it might not necessarily be head gasket (god I hope not!!), and it would seem that there could be several different causes of the problem...

The trouble is, I really have no idea where to start with this.  How do I start to isolate the problem without pulling it all apart? If anyone has a step-by-step guide to rectifying this, it would be great!

I have a basic grasp of machanics, but I'm no expect, so go easy on me please...

The other option is I drive another 200 miles back to the garage I got it from and demand my money back! Although I'm worried what state the coolant would be in by the time I get there...

Cheers

James

Did the vehicle come from Meon Valley garage? I think that's the name, or something similiar.

I very much doubt it'd be HG. Initially I thought it may be HBV, or some other water leak, but the fact there are oily deposits could suggest oil cooler failiure. I've been fortunate that I've never had any issues with HBV or oil cooler failiures so can't advise any further.

Regarding the best course of action with the garage-
I'm a motor trader myself, so know how it works. Legally 'for a short time' garages/dealers/traders have a duty of care over the vehicle. A 'short time' is usually 2 to 3 days. They then have the duty to either repair the vehicle, or offer a full refund. If they offer to repair the vehicle, you've got to go with that. They must do this within 'a reasonable time'. So quick enough not to inconvenience you, but also a time that fits in with them.

I would suggest you phone them, and explain the situation to them. I have no doubt they'll do the right thing.

Hopefully you'll get some better diagnosis of the issues with you Omega soon from other members 

[Kevin Wood]

Well, firstly, if you bought the car from a trader I think, regardless of any warranty offered, you'd be within your rights to phone them up and ask them to collect it for a full refund as it's not of merchantable quality if it barely got you home from collecting it.

Having said that, head gasket issues are rare on these engines and, should you wish to repair the car yourself, it will probably be something more simple.

Oil cooler failure is the main cause of oil in the coolant and leaks are a common cause of coolant loss, particularly the heater bypass valve which is just under the scuttle panel behind the engine.

Sounds to me like they knew it had problems and put fresh coolant in it for the sale.

Kevin

[Entwood]

'53 plate "should" have the newer oil cooler anyway .. so that shouldn't be the problem really. Oil cooler failure "usually" dumps all the oil into the coolant, as the oil pressure is higher than the coolant pressure, so again it sort of rules out oil cooler.... IMHO

HBV is certainly a possibility, so of course is head gasket.

As previously said .. first action is phone who you bought it from... if they don't play ball, second phone call is to Trading Standards..

It was not of merchantable quality. end of.

[twiglet]

OK, the garage in question is Meon Valley.  I have spoken to them and their mechanic has quoted £400 to replace the HG's which they will pay for.  However, they want me to get the car to them (200 miles).

Does everyone think I'd be better to ask for my money back, and are they abliged to do this? Can I insist that they collect the car as well?

[Lazydocker]

Twiglet, contact the vendor first. If you want another opinion I might be able to pop up and have a look for you during this week.

Sounds like it may well be the HBV to me but that it just a blind diagnosis based on common faults

[Kevin Wood]

I would do a little more detective work before throwing it back at them. Head gasket failures are rare on this engine. I also agree that a model as late as this shouldn't have oil cooler issues.

If you're prepared to do a little investigation I would say fill it up again, let it run for a while and see if you can spot any leaks. Turn heater on Hi for a while, then Lo, so that the heater bypass valve has been exercised.

Check for any leakage from the radiator, in particular just below the top hose and also the drain tap at the bottom passenger side of the rad. Have a thorough look for deposits that might reveal the source of a leak.

How much oil is in the header tank? Just a thin slick on the surface in the tank or serious mayonnaise? Any signs of mayo on the dipstick?

They seem to have been very quick to offer to replace the HG. Perhaps I'm being overly cynical but that seems suspicious. :-/

Kevin

[Marks DTM Calib]

Can you smell that, horse, or maybe sheep.....no, its bull shite.

Anyway, head gaskets resulting in oil in the water.....there having a  laugh!

Question has to be, has any work been carried out on the car before sale.

If the oil cooler has just been changed then you would expect some oily deposits to still be there and it might be that the engine has not been burped properly hence a one off water loss.

It would be interesting to see if it still looses water......and if so..... where from (that level of loss will be visable)

As for water loss on that scale.....its got to be a leak, you do not loose significant water with a failed oil cooler (about the only thing that can result in oil in the water) whilst running.

[twiglet]

How much oil is in the header tank? Just a thin slick on the surface in the tank or serious mayonnaise? Any signs of mayo on the dipstick?

There isn't really a film of oil, the best way I can describe it is a few little 'boogies' of oil floating around on the surface of the water.  Certainly not serious mayonaise as yet.  No signs of mayo on the dipstick.

Is it possible that the check control warning about the coolant level is related to this? Even when the coolant level is spot on, the error still flags up.  Maybe the level sensor has become bunged up in the past from mayo?  Then the system has been flushed to cover up the problem, and I'm just getting the residual crud coming through again?

[Elite Pete]

I think its had an oil cooler replaced. Has it lost any water since we spoke James?

[Elite Pete]

I think its had an oil cooler replaced. Has it lost any water since we spoke James?

And if it has I would check the oil cooler cover and coolant bridge for leaks

[Dishevelled Den]

OK, the garage in question is Meon Valley.  I have spoken to them and their mechanic has quoted £400 to replace the HG's which they will pay for.  However, they want me to get the car to them (200 miles).

Does everyone think I'd be better to ask for my money back, and are they abliged to do this? Can I insist that they collect the car as well?

In addition to the other observations here Twig can I suggest that you make a note of the time, date and nature of conversation - and with whom – when dealing with the garage from where you purchased the car.

I would be inclined to follow this up in writing summarising the situation as you understand it and send it to them by recorded mail.  It is important for you to inform them of the fault and tell them what you would like done about it.

As for continuing to drive the vehicle in the meantime, you may run the risk of the vendor arguing that you caused the problem to become worse by doing so after you became aware that it was faulty as described.

Finally on the point of driving the vehicle to them, again you risk an allegation of further unnecessary damage being caused to the vehicle by doing so.  At the very least, I would have a voice recording of the individual asking you to do this or a signed request in the form of a letter.  Can you ask for your money back?  It could be problematic as the vendor has already offered to rectify the apparent fault.

On a final, final note, situations this can be successfully resolved if you remain sensible, focussed and reasonable in your dealings with the vendor.  Despite the obstacle of the distance involved, if you take the right approach you may have a good result at the end.  However, if things do go south, you must have the determination to have the matter sorted out by the vendor and ensure they understand this

[twiglet]

I think its had an oil cooler replaced. Has it lost any water since we spoke James?

I haven't dare use the car since we last spoke Pete.

And if it has I would check the oil cooler cover and coolant bridge for leaks

Ok, I'm happy to have a go. How do I do this?