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[Martin_1962]

We have software on our works computers that scans for licences... if it's not legit, it deletes it!!!!  

Anyway, perhaps the government could raise some taxes from this little venture....  I think I'll contact Mr Brown...

DC

I wouldn't trust anything like that - false positives are a risk

Not in a business environment.  Its far better to control the PCs and whats on there than not to.  Too many people who think they know things (but don't) can make a mess of the network.  Same reason in most medium size companies, only a few people have workstation admin rights, and certainly users don't.

Best method is no CD no FDD and no internet

[Martin_1962]

I can't see how this is enforceable, TBH. It's quite legitimate to transfer large amounts of non copyright data across the internet, perhaps encrypted. Are ISPs going to be storing every byte transferred to or from every subscriber, cracking the encryption and then determining if it's legitimate? That's a lot of work. What's in it for them? My quess is that they'll nail a few obvious offenders in high profile cases to show what a great job they're doing and ignore 99.9% of what goes on. Pretty much the current status quo.

P2P is used for a lot of legitimate purposes, such as distributing open source software, even commercial software and updates, so there'll be uproar if they just block it. Illegal transfers of copyright material will go encrypted so they'll never keep up with it, and it'll make it harder than it currently is to detect.

I'm not so sure the music industry are as hard done by as they make out. It's always been necessary to copy their products for personal use on other mediums, and they have chosen to turn a blind eye as the internet has crept up and allowed more widespread sharing than the borrowing and taping of CDs and LPs that used to go on.

Their reluctant response has been to allow online purchase of lame downloads with huge amounts of compression and crippled with DRM so they're less flexible than a CD or, indeed, an illegal rip of a CD at decent quality, yet the cost for such downloads is in the same order of magnitude as a CD.

Personally, I don't think music habits have changed. People listen to a small amount of "copied from my mates" albums, just like they used to in the days of cassette, and if something's decent they'll buy it on CD and use ripped copies on an MP3 player when convenient. A CD is something tangible for your money, at least. Listen to it at home with reasonable sound quality, copy it to another format for use in an MP3 player, and it's something you can be proud to collect, unlike a collection of DRM-crippled 128kbit files on your PC.

Anyone who can think even for a minute that this kind of enforcement is plausible has no understanding of the nature of the internet whatsoever, IMHO.

Kevin

There is some very clever stuff going on on ISP grade stuff that analyses the traffic type within torrents/nntp/etc and likelihood of it being copyright.  I think this is probably the way they will go, storing some of the 'possibly copyright' transfers, and use that as basis.

ONe little problem - these users are usually top tier users and pay a lot for their internet - the ISPs want their money

[Martin_1962]

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Oh dear, I had been looking forward to a decent debate  

Come on, even I can think of decent(ish) reasons for downloading such things...

You want a debate so lets ignore copywrite infringement

There are lots of reasons to download stuff

1) BBC buying series 1 of a series then forgetting 2 and 3 I can think of a sitcom with this issue and no-one else has taken up the option.

2) The broadcasters doing 4x3 pan & scan in the UK but broadcast in US in 16x9, however that series ended up eventually in 16x9 on ITV4, I know someone who had that channel who torrented instead, same happened with another programme which is now with the BBC.

3) The Virgin / Sky spat - cable internet users torrented their missing shows.

4) Show was on 1-4 but 5 bought it and no 5 nor DTTV at the relay you use.

5) A pay channel outbid a FTA broadcaster for your favourite programme, and you do not have or do not have the ability to have that pay channel.

This is not about legality but reasons

OK Name Sitcom 1, both in 2, an example of 4 and as many as possible of 5, lets say BBC, C4, & C5 have all been victims

[MaxV6]

I'm not so sure the music industry are as hard done by as they make out.

so can anyone explain to me why 75% of the worlds major recordings studios have been shut down,. sold off and asset stripped and turned into car parks and office blocks?

to point to but one of MANY examples of the kind of impact that assorted things along these lines  have had on the industry./


and I can't believe anyone's actually going to sell, that bloody qwerty arse a miggy.

idiot

[hol666]

Interesting topic this and a highly emotional one at that!  

Back in the day, how many used to go to the library near them, 'borrow' a cassette and once home, do a tape to tape?  I know I did!

That said, the music industry for one is starting to come around to digital distribution, itunes is to blame and the industry wants more of that pie!

The arguement against piracy is a valid one but when you hear the record companies bleating on about how much money they are losing, that figure they always quote IS ONLY A GUESS!
A report I heard recently stated that CD sales at retail in the UK were up in '07 by 20% year on year.

I particulary like the comment about our broadcast companies not showing/buying the rest or a new series.  In my case it was the spin off movie for Stargate, broadcast in the US but not likely to be shown here for at least 6 months!   Since this and the 2 to follow wrap up the series completely, why should we as viewers wait?

What I'd like to see is some proper continuity of price worldwide if required but certainly between the US and us in the UK, unlikely I know but if it did, I'm sure casual piracy would drop, you'll never stop the hardcore though.

[TheBoy]

We have software on our works computers that scans for licences... if it's not legit, it deletes it!!!!  

Anyway, perhaps the government could raise some taxes from this little venture....  I think I'll contact Mr Brown...

DC

I wouldn't trust anything like that - false positives are a risk

Not in a business environment.  Its far better to control the PCs and whats on there than not to.  Too many people who think they know things (but don't) can make a mess of the network.  Same reason in most medium size companies, only a few people have workstation admin rights, and certainly users don't.

Best method is no CD no FDD and no internet

No, with modern OSes, best solution is no admin rights - it needs network connectivity to be useful normally.

[TheBoy]

ONe little problem - these users are usually top tier users and pay a lot for their internet - the ISPs want their money

Oh no, not at all, completely the opposite.

A single maxed out 8Mb line will cost the ISP approx £1500 per month in Central costs alone. The DSLAM port around £8. Then you have infrastructure costs, and transit costs.  Thats before overheads sure as power and cooling, and staff.

A 'premium' DSL service is around £35 to £150.


Hopefully you will see why ISPs are keen to 'cleanly' get rid of heavy users, and why its worth spending a few £10000's in putting in infrastructure to get rid of them, or get them to tame down their usage!

[TheBoy]

1) BBC buying series 1 of a series then forgetting 2 and 3 I can think of a sitcom with this issue and no-one else has taken up the option.

The BBC can't afford it (blown their cash on Knobenders and dial-up tv shows, probably nobody else wants it.  Who's to say the BBC won't buy next year? If not, most series available to buy on DVD eventually.

2) The broadcasters doing 4x3 pan & scan in the UK but broadcast in US in 16x9, however that series ended up eventually in 16x9 on ITV4, I know someone who had that channel who torrented instead, same happened with another programme which is now with the BBC.

The broadcasters, AFAIK, buy the rights to show it (specific cuts), its up to broadcasters on the format. Again, will be available to buy soon most likely.

3) The Virgin / Sky spat - cable internet users torrented their missing shows.

Both Virgin and Sky pay a lot of money to show certain programmes. I don't subscribe to either service, so I can't get xyz series, does that give me right to download for free?

4) Show was on 1-4 but 5 bought it and no 5 nor DTTV at the relay
you use.

As 3.

5) A pay channel outbid a FTA broadcaster for your favourite
programme, and you do not have or do not have the ability to have that pay channel.

As 3


Basically, going on your reasoning above, people download because they don't want to pay for it (either on DVD or subscription TV).  Not really valid reasons.....

[TheBoy]

Interesting topic this and a highly emotional one at that!  

Back in the day, how many used to go to the library near them, 'borrow' a cassette and once home, do a tape to tape?  I know I did!

That said, the music industry for one is starting to come around to digital distribution, itunes is to blame and the industry wants more of that pie!

The arguement against piracy is a valid one but when you hear the record companies bleating on about how much money they are losing, that figure they always quote IS ONLY A GUESS!
A report I heard recently stated that CD sales at retail in the UK were up in '07 by 20% year on year.

I particulary like the comment about our broadcast companies not showing/buying the rest or a new series.  In my case it was the spin off movie for Stargate, broadcast in the US but not likely to be shown here for at least 6 months!   Since this and the 2 to follow wrap up the series completely, why should we as viewers wait?

What I'd like to see is some proper continuity of price worldwide if required but certainly between the US and us in the UK, unlikely I know but if it did, I'm sure casual piracy would drop, you'll never stop the hardcore though.

A decent argument, well presented

It is annoying the price difference.  Can't blame the media companies, as pretty much most industries do it.  The car industry got kicked in to line a few years ago to an extent.  The computer industry, esp hardware, is notoriously bad.

As to timings of releases, thats normally a commercial decision by our broadcasters.  Traditionally in the UK, our broadcasters like to broadcast at regular intervals, rather than bunching, then a big break.

As to reasonable prices helping most people buy - look at how shareware is usually not a viable model unless the unregistered bit is severely knobbled?  I do some software on a donation basis, my total donations (after 3000 licences issued) is what do you think?  Microsoft do MS Office for home use, about £80 and can be installed on up to 3 PCs at your single place of residence. How many people have bought that compared with 'copies'?

If its available for free, however immoral or illegal, it seems many Internet users think its their right to have it without paying.

[TheBoy]

I'm not so sure the music industry are as hard done by as they make out.

so can anyone explain to me why 75% of the worlds major recordings studios have been shut down,. sold off and asset stripped and turned into car parks and office blocks?

to point to but one of MANY examples of the kind of impact that assorted things along these lines  have had on the industry./


and I can't believe anyone's actually going to sell, that bloody qwerty arse a miggy.

idiot

I'm sort of with Kevin Wood on this one - I think film and music companies overplay it.  Its deffinately having an effect, you your stats confirm that (though may be masked by companies consolidating).  I have some knowledge software, and how that is affected.

Trouble is, digital media is a problem for media.  Too easy to copy.  If they put DRM on, they are made to be the bad guys.  Not sure what the solution is, but then, nor are they.

[MaxV6]

not a question of resource rationalisation mate, it's simple economics...    labels are no longer paying money for product and artistes...  because they're not making money on it , ( or not to the same degree), thus the facility to produce that product is closed down and we lose it forever.

this last month or so month "Townhouse" closed it's doors forever.

  some serious stuff came out of their rooms...

take a look at what Universal just paid for Sanctuary...  not for the solid assets , not for the mechanical royalties, not for the album sales, or artist rosta.,

but the publishing rights on all of it... everything else is out of the window.  because any commercial, or broadcast use of the material, even if completely re-recorded, is still subject to publishing royalties.

Now they're setting about closing everything, making everyone redundant as cheaply as possible., and getting the hell outta dodge.,


the list of other studios closed in the last 5 years due to the economic disaster (that is to be fair, partly the industry major's own fault) that has clobbered the music industry is long, and very very depressing.

some of us have avoided the worst of it by moving our core business model laterally...   into Games for example...    but not everyone can do so...   and although the work is there, it's fickle, and short term futured... and increasingly in  ever shorter supply  for example I've (along with a number of colleagues and associated companies and production teams)  just lost 3 months work for later this year, starting (or rather not so) later this month,  because Nintendo have suddenly decided to move to using new Voice synthesis technology, instead of live actors and spoken word ....  , now this has nothing to do with the matter at hand, but it's an example of how suddenly things change on the fringe of what used to be a solidly stable sector of the industry.

and no the cancellation fees don't nearly make up for it.

The back room boys in audio, like myself, used to be pretty much set for life, it's a skill set that normal life doesn't endow you with, and it was expensive to get set up in...  and hard work....   but worth the effort.

now every pillock can afford a moderately powerful computer, and thanks to P2P sites and human nature, download all the expensive software a for free and use cracks of it.... and thereby has some of the tools (but none of the talent) .....  

so to those that say

"oh yeah, but if the stuff was cheaper we wouldn't need to download cracks of it."

(software IP theft)

or, "it doesn't matter, if I rip off some billionaire muso's latest album, they can afford it"

(Music IP theft)
I say/.

opps off and die painfully.


not a coherent argument, just the reaction of someone on the receiving end of it's end results..

[TheBoy]

not a question of resource rationalisation mate, it's simple economics...    labels are no longer paying money for product and artistes...  because they're not making money on it , ( or not to the same degree), thus the facility to produce that product is closed down and we lose it forever.

Could be that most modern music is crap of course

Sorry, I know its a serious issue, but couldn't resist

Lets face it, if it isn't some nobody off a tv 'talent' show, the industry isn't interested.

[Martin_1962]

Music sales are down - for one reason mainly.

Modern manufactured pap is being pushed instead of new exciting stuff.

Haven't bought anything for ages - still listening to stuff bought years ago instead

[Martin_1962]

1) BBC buying series 1 of a series then forgetting 2 and 3 I can think of a sitcom with this issue and no-one else has taken up the option.

The BBC can't afford it (blown their cash on Knobenders and dial-up tv shows, probably nobody else wants it.  Who's to say the BBC won't buy next year? If not, most series available to buy on DVD eventually.

2) The broadcasters doing 4x3 pan & scan in the UK but broadcast in US in 16x9, however that series ended up eventually in 16x9 on ITV4, I know someone who had that channel who torrented instead, same happened with another programme which is now with the BBC.

The broadcasters, AFAIK, buy the rights to show it (specific cuts), its up to broadcasters on the format. Again, will be available to buy soon most likely.

3) The Virgin / Sky spat - cable internet users torrented their missing shows.

Both Virgin and Sky pay a lot of money to show certain programmes. I don't subscribe to either service, so I can't get xyz series, does that give me right to download for free?

4) Show was on 1-4 but 5 bought it and no 5 nor DTTV at the relay
you use.

As 3.

5) A pay channel outbid a FTA broadcaster for your favourite
programme, and you do not have or do not have the ability to have that pay channel.

As 3


Basically, going on your reasoning above, people download because they don't want to pay for it (either on DVD or subscription TV).  Not really valid reasons.....

Theres's your debate, oh and one other reason format availabilty, lots of HDDVD rips are available but no Bluray rips, seems like a lot of PS3 owners are downloading them as they are HDDVD exclsuives. Just stating a fact not defending nor prosecuting. I expect if they have a BR version they would sell more.

[TheBoy]

I've been creating a load of 70s and 80s CDs lately, as little interests me know.

Copying my (bought) music in this way is possibly illegal, though a seem to remember a test case several years ago (in the vinyl days, and copying to compact cassette) which allowed it for personal use.  Maybe Max can confirm?