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[TP]

Hi all I'm a newbie

The Vehicle is a 1997 3 litre Automatic Elite Estate (Was a previous Carlton 24v GSi and Senator 24v owner)
   Seem to have a problem that plagued the above vehicles with respect to no starter opertions from the ignition key. There is no EML warning 
    I had the same problem over a 2 months ago on te Omega which appeared to be a loose ground connection from battery to engine block, I note that the "Lack Oil Check msg" comes on (yes there was enough oil in the engine, but once the connection was cleaned greased and tighten the starting was OK "Lack Oil Lack Check msg " was cleared.

    The problem has now returned along with the "Lack Oil Check msg" and the ground conituity is sound to both body and engine so its not that anymore.(See bleow the starter works)
 
  If I connect the Starter solnoid directly to the battery positve the starter opertates and the engine runs however the  "Lack Oil Check msg" remains on. No EML warning.

  I have checked the AT box selector switch have cleaned its connector I have also shorted out the P and N  connections for starter operation and still the ignition key will not operate the starter.

At present I have accessed the line down to the starter solenoid with a scotch loc in the trunking at front of engine to keep me moblie (Old trick from the GSi), but of course can only start car from under bonnet and have to make sure it is in either park or netural to avoid running my self over.

The wiring diagrams in the Haynes comic are a bit small for my old eyes so have yet to get my magnifying glass out to trace the circuit from starter to battery.

So what suprises are there along the line, clearly the inhibitor relay (Is that the one behined the dash in front of the passenger) is OK as the engine starts, unless it is only for starter motor operation), so has anyone any  ideas, could it be the actual switch contacts in the ingnition switch or are there some other connectors and  relays in the curcuit that can be at fault

Regards

[freecall666]

I dont know if this could help but have herd that the chip inside the key can go faulty, and the imobilizer will not turn off, but you can start from motor so dont know??
could be the imoblizer its self. if you open and close doors buy fob a few time will it work and start by key?

[Andy B]

I dont know if this could help but have herd that the chip inside the key can go faulty, and the imobilizer will not turn off, but you can start from motor so dont know??
could be the imoblizer its self. if you open and close doors buy fob a few time will it work and start by key?

Immobiliser won't prevent the starter from turning the engine over.

[Kevin Wood]

I dont know if this could help but have herd that the chip inside the key can go faulty, and the imobilizer will not turn off, but you can start from motor so dont know??
could be the imoblizer its self. if you open and close doors buy fob a few time will it work and start by key?

Immobiliser won't prevent the starter from turning the engine over.

Correct.

Is it an auto? If so, the starter feed is looped through the inhibitor switch which is part of the gear selector switch. This prevents the engine starting in anything other than P or N. Try giving the gear selector a waggle and try in both P and N positions. Failing that, it might be time to trace the circuit from the ignition barrel to starter to see where the break is.

[TP]

1) Have two keys with chips neither works so not the chip.

2) I did say "I have checked the AT box selector switch have cleaned its connector I have also shorted out the P and N  connections for starter operation and still the ignition key will not operate the starter".  .  (e.g shorted out the connections in the connector plug going to the wiring loom)

3) Have now learnt that there is no inhibtor relay, as without use of the correct chipped key the starter motor will function but the EM ECU will not allow the engine to fire. So leads me to believe it may be the ignition switch.

4) I'm now looking at buying a new ignition switch, so that when I get through the steering wheel air bag and get the wheel off I can check the starter line out from the switch, and if faulty change it, without having to go thru that chore again.

5) I have a feeling that the oil lack of check msg is a unrelated matter as it seem to go to a Radio connection.

I will keep in touch   

[Kevin Wood]

2) I did say "I have checked the AT box selector switch have cleaned its connector I have also shorted out the P and N  connections for starter operation and still the ignition key will not operate the starter".  .  (e.g shorted out the connections in the connector plug going to the wiring loom)

Sorry. I must have missed that.

4) I'm now looking at buying a new ignition switch, so that when I get through the steering wheel air bag and get the wheel off I can check the starter line out from the switch, and if faulty change it, without having to go thru that chore again.

Why not try bridging the starter terminal to +12v at the ignition switch first, just to confirm that it's not something adrift in the wiring somewhere?

I doubt you'll need to take the wheel off, Just remove the plastic cowling around the steering column and you can get it it no problem.

5) I have a feeling that the oil lack of check msg is a unrelated matter as it seem to go to a Radio connection.

I think you're right. There's a sensor in the sump that drives that. I think the sump needs to come off to get to it, though.

[TP]

Hi

Quote "Why not try bridging the starter terminal to +12v at the ignition switch first, just to confirm that it's not something adrift in the wiring somewhere?

I doubt you'll need to take the wheel off, Just remove the plastic cowling around the steering column and you can get it it no problem."

            Opel don't make it easy  unfortunately while the three posidrive screws securing the cowl to the steering column, are accessible from below, there are also two screws (with trim covers) securing (along with the plastic clips) the two halves of the cowl together at their front directly behind the steering wheel. So I'm a little stimed so it made sense to by a ignition switch just in case.
 Regards

[Kevin Wood]

The front cowling screws can be accessed by turning the wheel 90 degrees in either direction.

[TheBoy]

I think you're right. There's a sensor in the sump that drives that. I think the sump needs to come off to get to it, though.

On V6, it plugs into sump, just below alternator. If the sensor itself has died, that needs the sump off (easy on V6, just a bit messy).

Other engines, sorry, no idea.

[Kevin Wood]

I think you're right. There's a sensor in the sump that drives that. I think the sump needs to come off to get to it, though.

On V6, it plugs into sump, just below alternator. If the sensor itself has died, that needs the sump off (easy on V6, just a bit messy).

Other engines, sorry, no idea.

It has to be said, though, that if the sensor has jammed up, there might be sufficient crud in the bottom of the sump to warrant removing it anyway to clean it out...

[TheBoy]

I think you're right. There's a sensor in the sump that drives that. I think the sump needs to come off to get to it, though.

On V6, it plugs into sump, just below alternator. If the sensor itself has died, that needs the sump off (easy on V6, just a bit messy).

Other engines, sorry, no idea.

It has to be said, though, that if the sensor has jammed up, there might be sufficient crud in the bottom of the sump to warrant removing it anyway to clean it out...

Good point, well presented....

[TP]

The front cowling screws can be accessed by turning the wheel 90 degrees in either direction.

So I'm a doh    thanks for that.

[TP]

I think you're right. There's a sensor in the sump that drives that. I think the sump needs to come off to get to it, though.

On V6, it plugs into sump, just below alternator. If the sensor itself has died, that needs the sump off (easy on V6, just a bit messy).


Change oil twice a year, semi synthetic so cheap thru the Vx Trade Club it sis unlikely to be crud so I'd better home in on the sensor, or short it out and use the the dip stick as I usually do weekly, Its just handy for any sudden loss of oil.
 
Other engines, sorry, no idea.

It has to be said, though, that if the sensor has jammed up, there might be sufficient crud in the bottom of the sump to warrant removing it anyway to clean it out...

[dbug]

I dont know if this could help but have herd that the chip inside the key can go faulty, and the imobilizer will not turn off, but you can start from motor so dont know??
could be the imoblizer its self. if you open and close doors buy fob a few time will it work and start by key?

FFS 

[Andy H]

I dont know if this could help but have herd that the chip inside the key can go faulty, and the imobilizer will not turn off, but you can start from motor so dont know??
could be the imoblizer its self. if you open and close doors buy fob a few time will it work and start by key?

FFS 

If it is a poor connection, or a faulty ignition switch, then slamming the doors a few times might well get a reaction. Wouldn't help to find the fault though