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Author Topic: Britain will join the Euro before long says German Finance Minister  (Read 5000 times)

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Varche

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Wolfgang Schäuble said that, despite the current crisis in the eurozone, the euro will ultimately emerge as the common currency of the entire European Union. He said he “respects” Britain’s decision to keep the pound, but insisted that the survival and eventual stabilisation of the euro will convince non-members to join the currency club. “This may happen more quickly than some people in the British Isles currently believe,” he added.

Clearly we Brits are in denial!!!

Full article here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8900799/Britain-will-join-euro-before-long-says-German-finance-minister.html
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Nickbat

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Re: Britain will join the Euro before long says German Finance Minister
« Reply #1 on: 19 November 2011, 16:24:09 »

Indeed, Varche, and according to The Express...

...His warning came amid a furious outpouring of anti-British sentiment in Berlin. Top-selling newspaper Bild asked: “What is England still doing in the EU?” while another paper branded Britain “the sick empire”.

I have to say that whilst some British newspapers have questioned the degree of German influence in Europe, none have called it "sick".

A nasty turn in British/German relations.   :( :o

 
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Britain will join the Euro before long says German Finance Minister
« Reply #2 on: 19 November 2011, 16:26:05 »

I don’t know about being in denial, but we are in der scheiße thanks to the Scheißerei holed up in Westminister.


That said, the Germanic tendency towards an assured self-belief can be quite endearing and, indeed, makes a refreshing change to those gutless whores we have in our own sovereign parliament.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBharndqLNA :-* :-*
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Britain will join the Euro before long says German Finance Minister
« Reply #3 on: 19 November 2011, 16:31:43 »

if Britain abondons pound, you are in trouble once and for all.. :-\
 
 
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Varche

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Re: Britain will join the Euro before long says German Finance Minister
« Reply #4 on: 19 November 2011, 16:54:38 »

if Britain abondons pound, you are in trouble once and for all.. :-\

I cannot see that happening. Britain would have been in the clag now with unemployment much higher if it had been tied in to euroland by having the euro. The current ills of the euroland will not be over for years. I estimate for Spain at least ten. There are a lot of people in Britain that would resist changing to the euro. Heck they might even leave the comfort of their houses and march in protest if it was a serious suggestion to change to the euro.

If Britain was forced to leave the EU and stand on its own, I have a horrible feeling that EU countries would not treat it very well in terms of doing business. Why? Well they are a lot more patriotic than Britain. You only have to look at the stuff we Brits buy - no loyalty just price first and foremost. Not so in the likes of France and Spain for example.
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Britain will join the Euro before long says German Finance Minister
« Reply #5 on: 19 November 2011, 18:20:19 »

if Britain abondons pound, you are in trouble once and for all.. :-\

I cannot see that happening. Britain would have been in the clag now with unemployment much higher if it had been tied in to euroland by having the euro. The current ills of the euroland will not be over for years. I estimate for Spain at least ten. There are a lot of people in Britain that would resist changing to the euro. Heck they might even leave the comfort of their houses and march in protest if it was a serious suggestion to change to the euro.

If Britain was forced to leave the EU and stand on its own, I have a horrible feeling that EU countries would not treat it very well in terms of doing business. Why? Well they are a lot more patriotic than Britain. You only have to look at the stuff we Brits buy - no loyalty just price first and foremost. Not so in the likes of France and Spain for example.

Varche, monetary principles have no excuse for anyone and I'm not sure ECB is under a proper management..And wont care for you when things are stressed..
 
I hope history will proove you were right...
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Johnny English

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Re: Britain will join the Euro before long says German Finance Minister
« Reply #6 on: 19 November 2011, 19:29:39 »

And you Cem? Turkey also coming to the EU it's just a question of time and will enter. What happen with your money at time?
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Britain will join the Euro before long says German Finance Minister
« Reply #7 on: 19 November 2011, 20:09:10 »

if Britain abondons pound, you are in trouble once and for all.. :-\

I cannot see that happening. Britain would have been in the clag now with unemployment much higher if it had been tied in to euroland by having the euro. The current ills of the euroland will not be over for years. I estimate for Spain at least ten. There are a lot of people in Britain that would resist changing to the euro. Heck they might even leave the comfort of their houses and march in protest if it was a serious suggestion to change to the euro.

If Britain was forced to leave the EU and stand on its own, I have a horrible feeling that EU countries would not treat it very well in terms of doing business. Why? Well they are a lot more patriotic than Britain. You only have to look at the stuff we Brits buy - no loyalty just price first and foremost. Not so in the likes of France and Spain for example.

Varche, monetary principles have no excuse for anyone and I'm not sure ECB is under a proper management..And wont care for you when things are stressed..
 
I hope history will proove you were right...


Quote
I'm not sure ECB is under a proper management


Cem, that is a terrible to say about that august body of bself-abusers. :( :(
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Britain will join the Euro before long says German Finance Minister
« Reply #8 on: 19 November 2011, 20:29:37 »

And you Cem? Turkey also coming to the EU it's just a question of time and will enter. What happen with your money at time?

I completely trust EU.. they will never accept us ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Britain will join the Euro before long says German Finance Minister
« Reply #9 on: 19 November 2011, 20:36:27 »

apart from the subject of Turkey is accepted or not ,
 
EU is not build for citizens like you and me to live in better conditions.. although from outside it seems like that but in reality its a further step in capitalist system that all national powers and controls bypassed  so that elites can combine their forces and manage and abuse whole europe with cheap labour with the help of their own rules..
 
 
trust me UKIP is not telling porkies.. :-\   but I doubt crowds will hear their voice unless its too late..
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albitz

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Re: Britain will join the Euro before long says German Finance Minister
« Reply #10 on: 19 November 2011, 20:52:59 »

In 10 years time - if the dust has settled and there is still a euro currency,and we are still a member state,Im sure a Labour government will have taken us into the euro and full EU membership by then.People have short memories.
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Rods2

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Re: Britain will join the Euro before long says German Finance Minister
« Reply #11 on: 20 November 2011, 19:12:15 »

That's because they need us in the Euro much more than we need to be in it.

A precis on how the bond markets work, so you will understand the ECB's position below. When a country issues a bond, say a 10 year one at 3.5% interest. The price on the bond market is 100 or 100%. Now bond trading is like share trading. If a countries bonds are popular like Germany's and UK's are at the moment, then the price will go up, so lets say they are trading at 200, then the interest they pay with respect to the buy price is 1.75%, now if they go down like Greece or Italy to say 50 then the effective interest rate is 7%. Now if you want to issue and sell new bonds, the interest rate has to be slightly better than what your current bonds are trading at, otherwise you are better off going into the market and buying your bonds. Greek 10 year bonds are currently trading at about 235%!  :o :o :o

The ECB is buying Greek and Italian bonds at the moment at up to €20bn a week with money the bank has borrowed. The interest it receives for these bonds is booked as a profit less the interest from the money they have borrowed. So far so good. Now the ECB values the bonds it has bought at 100% of that price.  Now it has bought a lot of Greek and Italian bonds which have dropped significantly in price, but these losses don't show due to their 100% valuation, not the current market valuation like any other bank would have to show in their accounts, if they did they would be insolvent. Now they are either going to have to hold the bonds until their maturity (maybe with haircuts of 20-50%) or sell them. If they sell them for a loss and we are talking about big losses here, maybe €100-200bn, then this money will have to come from somewhere, yes you've probably guessed where by now.  ::) The good old Eurozone tax payer. Now the more countries in the Eurozone, the more you can spread the losses. Now if they have to buy more countries bonds like this, with Spain, Belgium and France firmly in the sights of joining Greece and Italy, who knows what the losses will be?.

The next reason is that people keep saying that the problem could be solved by issuing Eurobonds (vetoed by Germany) or a massive expansion of the Eurozone money supply (vetoed by Germany) to use inflation to reduce sovereign debt levels. The German economy is built on the foundation of low inflation after what happened in the 1920's and they don't want Eurobonds as the interest rate would be much higher than they are currently paying, which would have a big impact on their bond interest payments where their Sovereign Debt is about 82% of GDP.

The other thing quoted regular is that Germany could bail out the other countries, the beastly Germans are just saying no, but will come to the table as the country (and bank) of last resort to save the Euro.

Using 2010 figures. The three major strong economies in the Eurozone are Germany, The Netherlands and Austria which have a combined GDP €3,374bn or 37% of the Eurozone GDP with a combined sovereign debt of 79% of GDP (probably nearer 82-83% now). Now if we say countries can borrow up to 100% of GDP before the markets start getting twitchy then this gives a combined fire power of €600bn. Now the 7 countries to a greater or lessor extent in trouble are Belgium, France, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal and Spain. Their combined GDP is €5453bn or 59% of the Eurozone GDP. Their combined sovereign dept is 93% of GDP (now about 100% as most have budget deficits of 5-10%). The other 7 Eurozone countries have relatively low sovereign debt but only account for 4% of the Eurozone GDP, so they are too small to make any difference. IMHO the stong countries don't have enough fire power to bail out the weak ones.  :o :o :o

Now the Greek 50% haircut will have a major effect of French banks which may need bailing out, if (more likely when) Italy need a 20-30% haircut, then France will be in big trouble. The Spanish Government and banks have consistently kicked the can down the road on the losses from their housing bubble, mortgages are still sitting at 100% value on their books and their regional governments can raise their own money, with rumors of much larger debts than given in official figures.

The problem of large austerity measures over a short period of time is that economies take time to readjust, so you tend to have a recession which increases the sovereign debt at a % of GDP, tax revenues are reduced, so the country misses their budget deficit targets, which means more austerity measures are required. Greece is currently in this death spiral. Italy have average 0.75% growth over the last 10 years with virtually no growth at the moment, so guess what their austerity measures are likely to do.  ::)

Now the EFSF bailout fund of €440bn is not fit for purpose and as each country need help, they drop out, so any further  contribution disappears, so the fund gets smaller! Now if we were in the Eurozone and in the fund it would get much bigger, with of course full UK taxpayer loss liability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Financial_Stability_Facility

Now I can't see anyway out of this mess, can any of you? When the Eurozone collapses it is going to be brutal and bloody where all banks have massive exposure to Eurozone countries bonds including the UK to the tune of €500bn.  :o :o :o
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albitz

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Re: Britain will join the Euro before long says German Finance Minister
« Reply #12 on: 20 November 2011, 19:55:26 »

An excellent explanation Rod. :y
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Britain will join the Euro before long says German Finance Minister
« Reply #13 on: 20 November 2011, 20:14:13 »



Now I can't see anyway out of this mess, can any of you? When the Eurozone collapses it is going to be brutal and bloody where all banks have massive exposure to Eurozone countries bonds including the UK to the tune of €500bn.  :o :o :o




I'm inclined to agree with that; most things are now so closely linked that any extraction - even of the unilateral flavour - may well produce results other than those that are immediately sought.

We have been so comprehensively shackled to the fortunes of ‘Brussels’ by successive Westminster governments that to try to alter the terms of our legally binding commitments to the EU would be politically, diplomatically and legally difficult to say the least.

I can’t understand how our political masters failed to see the strategic folly of trying to unite many countries, each having a disparate and very distinct nature,  under one banner in the expectation that the union (forced in some cases) would work.
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Britain will join the Euro before long says German Finance Minister
« Reply #14 on: 20 November 2011, 20:23:18 »

 
 
An excellent explanation Rod. :y

yep..agreed, good one :y
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