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[Varche]

Am I the only person who thinks it is very strange that scrapyards and recyclers haven't been made by law to keep records of payments and to pay by cheque/bank transfer.

I saw a piece on TV about a bunch of Police officers making a snap visit to a yard looking for suspicious church lead roofing, copper railway signalling cable, manhole covers and so on. Tough job with so many yards to visit.

How hard would it be to introduce some legislation?

I remember back in the seventies taking 3 car batteries and 3 radiators to a scrap yard at Enderby and being given a grilling before being handed the cash.

[cem_devecioglu]

here, most all scrapyard owners are unbelievably rich (not joking, 3-4 of them can buy half of the city)
because they are all mafia and in cooperation with cops

[aaronjb]

Am I the only person who thinks it is very strange that scrapyards and recyclers haven't been made by law to keep records of payments and to pay by cheque/bank transfer.

Nope, 37,068 people agree with you: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/406

[tigers_gonads]

I'm suprised the vat man has not forced something threw yet.

I know for a fact that when the price of scrap goes up, HMRC tend to send one of there investigation people down to our local scrappy and take the reg numbers of any firms vans that turn up there 

If it happens too often, they have been known to knock on your door to inspect your books 

[Martian]

Am I the only person who thinks it is very strange that scrapyards and recyclers haven't been made by law to keep records of payments and to pay by cheque/bank transfer.

Even if the VAT man did have the power to introduce new legislation, you can't force someone to use a particular method of payment.

How hard would it be to introduce some legislation?

Our government shows us on an almost daily basis how easy it is to introduce new legislation no matter how barmy it is, but enforcing it is another thing altogether.
Unless you have witnessed it, proving that a cash transaction has taken place would be very difficult indeed.

[Nickbat]

Am I the only person who thinks it is very strange that scrapyards and recyclers haven't been made by law to keep records of payments and to pay by cheque/bank transfer.

I saw a piece on TV about a bunch of Police officers making a snap visit to a yard looking for suspicious church lead roofing, copper railway signalling cable, manhole covers and so on. Tough job with so many yards to visit.

How hard would it be to introduce some legislation?

I remember back in the seventies taking 3 car batteries and 3 radiators to a scrap yard at Enderby and being given a grilling before being handed the cash.

Unless I am mistaken, laws are coming into force in the next month or two, outlawing cash transactions and forcing customers to show ID, which must be recorded by the dealer. This was mentioned on a programme about the recent spate of thefts of cabling from railways. 

[aaronjb]

The only references I can find are:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8883823/MPs-to-consider-move-against-cable-thieves.html

and

http://www.mrw.co.uk/news/mp-seeks-regulation-to-curb-metal-theft-crisis/8622577.article

But nothing since to say whether it passed the first stage or not..

[Martian]

Unless I am mistaken, laws are coming into force in the next month or two, outlawing cash transactions and forcing customers to show ID, which must be recorded by the dealer. This was mentioned on a programme about the recent spate of thefts of cabling from railways. 

Outlawing cash isn't feasible, and keeping a copy of your ID isn't going to prove how much the transaction was for or the method of payment used.

[Varche]

This is one area where a dreaded ID card would actually be useful.

In Spain for example you can't do anything without producing your ID card. The unique number is then recorded against your transaction. Yes and why can't the transaction be recorded. Every other business has to.  Plenty of ways to skin a cat. Cash transactions at a scrapyard could be illegal for example. Bona fida persons wouldn't object to payment by cheque or by bank transfer. The technology is there. It might even help the tax man tax people who are making a living from scrap sales......

[Martian]

why can't the transaction be recorded.

It can be recorded, but you still can't prove whether cash changed hands.

Example:

You come to me with scrap worth £100.
I pay you £50 and record the transaction for that amount, and I then give you the other £50 in cash.
You won't be complaining because that is £50 the VAT/Tax man knows nothing about where you are concerned, and I doubt very much the buyer will be complaining because it works the same way for him/her as well.

[albitz]

You want to extract tax from scrap metal merchants ?  .................have you no sense of culture/tradition/history ? Shame on you.



 

[aaronjb]

why can't the transaction be recorded.

It can be recorded, but you still can't prove whether cash changed hands.

The bill includes a provision that all transactions take place on CCTV..

So when (presumably, not if) they raid check the scrap yard, if there is something in there that didn't appear on the CCTV, yer nicked, son.

[mantahatch]

Well I suppose I am one of those people who takes scrap to the scrap yard 2 or 3 times a year. I work for a large organisation which seems to value scrap paper and cardboard above scrap metal. I hoard the scrap metal and then weigh it in.


If the new rules come in and I am prevented from doing this then my emplyer will pay a licenced scrap yard to take the metal away and I will loose a few quid each year. I am about to take alod this week, I will use some of the money to pay for our units Xmas bash and yes pocket the rest. A bit black market if you like but ultimatly the money all goes back into the system so is not lost.

Just get the scrapyards to stop taking man hole covers. road signs and the like and leave the rest of us to help recycle and make a couple of quid extra.

I have received about £400 this year so far and expect to make about £200 this week.

So total £600 in a year I have made outside of the system. For this I have to take a days holiday to get it there and use my own trailer and petrol.

I am hardly an offshore company avoiding millions in tax eh.

[Varche]

Quite agree. It is the folk who make a living at it without declaring any of the stuff taken in.

After all there are plenty of areas where people are as near as damn it trading - EBay and so on but there is a trail there if the authorities wanted to fololow it up..

The real purpose would be to stop in its tracks the current theft of a say a  hundred yards of copper cable worth say 50 quid, getting paid 30 for it at a bent/disinterested scrap yard and then having no trains till the cable is replaced at a cost of say 500 pounds. It would be cheaper all round just to pay the thieves and the scrap yard a retainer NOT to steal of say 100 pounds a week and call it dole.

[Omega32E]

Cook the tax man, we are already taxed to death and beyond, VAT @20% National In 12% Income tax 22% Gas and Elec 5% + fuel, tobacco, alcohol I could go on but I'm sure you all know the script. He is the biggest bandit of them all and this not to mention the greedy MP's who not satisfied with there salary and TAX FREE perks twist the system into even more personal wealth whilst dodging coughing up on any personal gains.
Weighing a bit of scrap in a couple or so times a year for a bit of back pocket money or a bit towards the kiddies christmas is nothing to what the above twisting ******** get up.