Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dishevelled Den]

Our government shows us on an almost daily basis how easy it is to introduce new legislation no matter how barmy it is, but enforcing it is another thing altogether.

Unless you have witnessed it, proving that a cash transaction has taken place would be very difficult indeed.

You've knocked that one right through the thin atmosphere Martian.

[Martian]

The bill includes a provision that all transactions take place on CCTV.

I'll see you in the pub at lunchtime and square you up the other £50 mate 

[Entwood]

All scrap merchants should be registered and all cash transactions illegal, payment only made to/from designated and registered accounts. Electornic monitoring of transactions by the scrap yard compare with what they declare on recycling to next stage. Full records kept and liable to "no-notice" checking.

Sounds draconian, but I don't care .. if a little inconvenience is put to those who scrap the odd car/pile of metal it matters not to me .. what IS important is some way of stopping this sort of activity.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3897382/Sick-thieves-steal-war-memorial-statue.html

This was stolen because the thieves had a known way of getting rid of it. Stop the trade and you stop the thefts.

Legislation won't totaly stop the trade, but it will make it far harder and would proscribe sentences for breaches.... now if those sentences wrere tough enough ..... 

[Omega32E]

Why not, we are already monitored like no other country, lets agree to cctv in our house then they can have it, All hale Big Brother

[albitz]

The other side of the argument is that this would tie yet another industry up in a huge web of red tape. There is a huge problem in this country with scrap metal being stolen from locations where it endangers lives and causes huge inconvenience,but arent we all ignoring the elephant in the room - the thieves. We all know "who" they are,but to speak of that issue would brand us as right wing knee jerk reactionary racists,in this PC world we now have to exist in.
A clue - the problem has only become a big one in the last 10-15 years.

[albitz]

Messed up modifying.

[Dishevelled Den]

No doubt, when such legislation is enacted, it will be policed by means other than a real police officer wandering in to a look around while basing his/her observations on a sound local knowledge of the proprietor and frequenters of any such establishment.

When I was a probationer constable all those years ago a lack of local knowledge was not allowed and, to prevent it, we were tested frequently.

Should there have been a scrap merchant on the patch we knew who he was, what he was dealing in and had a fair idea who he was buying from.

Nowadays I suppose this would be deemed to be too labour intensive and, of course, would only result in the horrific requirement for officers to dismount from their vehicles or actually walk around talking to people and taking note of what’s going on.

Still, I suppose some quasi private organisation will be looking forward to getting a contract to police this (in place of real police officers).

[hotel21]

Scrap dealing - Its the second oldest profession.   

If there were no resetters then their would be no thieves.........

And like DD, we needed to know the scrappy 'resetters' when I was a proby and regularly entered the yards for a good rake around, particularly when there was a spate of cojoined thefts such as drain covers, ally beer barrels, copper earth strapping from leccy sub stations (brave but stupid...) and similar.

If such neferious proceeds was unearthed then relevant register entry was required to be produced.  If not, prosecution ensued.  Its not really more legislation thats required, just a frekking good dose of coppers nouse - and the freedom/knowledge to use it, with a supportive following court system.

[Martian]

The other side of the argument is that this would tie yet another industry up in a huge web of red tape. There is a huge problem in this country with scrap metal being stolen from locations where it endangers lives and causes huge inconvenience,but arent we all ignoring the elephant in the room - the thieves. We all know "who" they are,but to speak of that issue would brand us as right wing knee jerk reactionary racists,in this PC world we now have to exist in.
A clue - the problem has only become a big one in the last 10-15 years.

Bang on the money Albs 

[mantahatch]

All scrap merchants should be registered and all cash transactions illegal, payment only made to/from designated and registered accounts. Electornic monitoring of transactions by the scrap yard compare with what they declare on recycling to next stage. Full records kept and liable to "no-notice" checking.

Sounds draconian, but I don't care .. if a little inconvenience is put to those who scrap the odd car/pile of metal it matters not to me .. what IS important is some way of stopping this sort of activity.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3897382/Sick-thieves-steal-war-memorial-statue.html

This was stolen because the thieves had a known way of getting rid of it. Stop the trade and you stop the thefts.

Legislation won't totaly stop the trade, but it will make it far harder and would proscribe sentences for breaches.... now if those sentences wrere tough enough .....

Do you have any idea what this would mean for the average joe (me)
Secondly, large business and rich individuals manage to avoid payng huge amounts of tax and that is through as much checking by the authorities as there can be but they still get away with it.

I wholeheartedly agree that anyone stealing a memorial for scrap should be hung drawn and quartered.

[Rods2]

The new rules will make it more difficult, and reduce the size of the problem but unfortunately wont stop it. Like chip and pin has reduced debit / credit card fraud but has not eliminated it. The fraud methods have just changed, like false fronts on ATMs. 

All it will mean is that the metal will be taken abroad, along with the car spares that there is already a big market for in Eastern Europe or there will be a fence who will melt down the material and then take it for scrap or send it abroad.

Unfortunately, scum that are quite happy to cause major disruption to make a few £'s are not going to stop trying to make an easy living at our expense. 

An appropriate punishment for scum that deface our war memorials should be to serve queen and country as IED detectors in Afghanistan. 

[Marks DTM Calib]

For me, something needs doing.

I could not give a flying about the tax, its a case of discouraging the low lifes who have no concern over steeling metal (I wont use the word scrap as it often isnt) because they know they can simply weigh it in, get a few quid and repeat as required.

The proposals I have seen are based around a no cash transaction where the cash is paid to a uk registered bank account in order to create a trail, this is no bad thing and having spoken to Steve at Thompsons on Stockton (one of the bigger scrap yards about!) about it a few times, hes more than happy as it means he goes fully electronic banking.

If as a result the revenue also get the tax they are due then all the better.

[SIR Philbutt]

I do a weigh in every couple of months and get cash

Rules around here are that;
car reg, name & address recorded on receipt.
No on-foot sellers or taxi arrivals will be dealt with
All lead is scanned with UV for smart water (now free to churches)

Everything put in a big pile or container
They do not record what I have actually weighed in so difficult to know if i got legit or not.
If found out later to be stolen who brought it in .

This is the problem even with an ID check or cheque payment

"I didnt take that in there officer, I took in something else" !!!! 

There will always be a way for the pikeys to get around any system. 
Only the honest will be inconvenienced as usual