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[cem_devecioglu]

question: how do the bankers earn money ?

I don`t think they do actually 'earn' money; it`s mostly gambling (with other people`s money) and usury.

Of course they do, Debs. Without venture capital provided by banks, many small businesses would fail to start, fail to operate and fail to grow, in may cases, into export-earning enterprises. Plus the fact that the City earns a vast amount of foreign income through the provision of financial services to other countries.

Of course there are bad apples in every cart, and these should be rooted out. IMHO, the important thing for banks to do now is to show that they can use their profitability for the benefot of the wider community, taking a leaf perhaps from the Gurney Quakers. 

wrong.. the same can be done with a bank thats owned by public   no need to be private!
 
foreign credits also means a foreign robbery

1. There speaks someone who doesn't understand the benefits of competition.

2. Foreign credits? If a country wants to do business with another country and the City of London facilitates it, how can that be robbery? 

1. why is necessary comptetition ? because its necessary to drop the price of labour..
 
tell me why community has to pay extra if it can be done without paying..
 
 
2..in a credit bussiness , there are 2 sides.. a looser and a winner..

[cem_devecioglu]

off to bed, tomorrow is another day.. good night  

[Dishevelled Den]

IMHO, "we" have lost our way: ethically, societally, fiscally and politically

Of that Deb, there is no doubt.  We inhabit a world where self interest is the talisman of the many, and the accumulation of wealth is the amulet chosen by such people to ward against the lack of financial standing and influence they deem necessary to have in this materialistic age.

An age when personal excess has been fed and nurtured by those in politics, big business, the banking and financial industries and a media sector guilty of perverting and devaluing the very language we speak.

[Nickbat]

question: how do the bankers earn money ?

I don`t think they do actually 'earn' money; it`s mostly gambling (with other people`s money) and usury.

Of course they do, Debs. Without venture capital provided by banks, many small businesses would fail to start, fail to operate and fail to grow, in may cases, into export-earning enterprises. Plus the fact that the City earns a vast amount of foreign income through the provision of financial services to other countries.

Of course there are bad apples in every cart, and these should be rooted out. IMHO, the important thing for banks to do now is to show that they can use their profitability for the benefot of the wider community, taking a leaf perhaps from the Gurney Quakers. 

wrong.. the same can be done with a bank thats owned by public   no need to be private!
 
foreign credits also means a foreign robbery

1. There speaks someone who doesn't understand the benefits of competition.

2. Foreign credits? If a country wants to do business with another country and the City of London facilitates it, how can that be robbery? 

1. why is necessary comptetition ? because its necessary to drop the price of labour..
 
tell me why community has to pay extra if it can be done without paying..
 
 
2..in a credit bussiness , there are 2 sides.. a looser and a winner..

1. Nothing to do with labour at all. Competition provides the consumer (and that includes your beloved workers) with the best value and the widest choice of product. Perhaps that explains why the former East Germany offered....the government Trabant, whilst the filthy capitalist West offered a wide range from the Ford Fiesta to the Aston Martin. 

2. Why are you going on about credit? The City of London provides a financial market place where foreign companies/countries can choose from a wide range of services on offer which can enable them  to do their business with others. 

...and you still a haven't provided me with your definition of capitalism.   

[Nickbat]

IMHO, "we" have lost our way: ethically, societally, fiscally and politically

Of that Deb, there is no doubt.  We inhabit a world where self interest is the talisman of the many, and the accumulation of wealth is the amulet chosen by such people to ward against the lack of financial standing and influence they deem necessary to have in this materialistic age.

An age when personal excess has been fed and nurtured by those in politics, big business, the banking and financial industries and a media sector guilty of perverting and devaluing the very language we speak.

And, I might add, a society in which the religious and pious have failed to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and have instead dived into the political quagmire, offering little of the spiritual alternative to which many aspire...

[Dishevelled Den]

IMHO, "we" have lost our way: ethically, societally, fiscally and politically

Of that Deb, there is no doubt.  We inhabit a world where self interest is the talisman of the many, and the accumulation of wealth is the amulet chosen by such people to ward against the lack of financial standing and influence they deem necessary to have in this materialistic age.

An age when personal excess has been fed and nurtured by those in politics, big business, the banking and financial industries and a media sector guilty of perverting and devaluing the very language we speak.

And, I might add, a society in which the religious and pious have failed to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and have instead dived into the political quagmire, offering little of the spiritual alternative to which many aspire...

Indeed so and, from a distinctly impious and very practical perspective, what lies at the root of it all?  Avarice fed by the acquisition of money, power and influence.

[Nickbat]

IMHO, "we" have lost our way: ethically, societally, fiscally and politically

Of that Deb, there is no doubt.  We inhabit a world where self interest is the talisman of the many, and the accumulation of wealth is the amulet chosen by such people to ward against the lack of financial standing and influence they deem necessary to have in this materialistic age.

An age when personal excess has been fed and nurtured by those in politics, big business, the banking and financial industries and a media sector guilty of perverting and devaluing the very language we speak.

And, I might add, a society in which the religious and pious have failed to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and have instead dived into the political quagmire, offering little of the spiritual alternative to which many aspire...

Indeed so and, from a distinctly impious and very practical perspective, what lies at the root of it all?  Avarice fed by the acquisition of money, power and influence.

Funnily enough, although this thread is about the first of those three, it is the latter two that hold the key. 

[albitz]

question: how do the bankers earn money ?

I don`t think they do actually 'earn' money; it`s mostly gambling (with other people`s money) and usury.

I cant think of a possible way of making money which doesnt involve gambling.
Personally,Im tempted to gamble a few bob on Thomas Cook shares at the moment.

I wondered about that, they are so low at the moment.... are they going to go bust? if not got to be worth a couple of grand as an investment, question is can I afford to do it, never bought shares before......

They owe their bank almost £1 billion. They could concievably go bust.They could also turn things around and recover the share value.Its a gamble Mike,so if you want to do it dont gamble with money you cant afford to lose.If you want to buy shares open an online account with your own bank.Very straightforward.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

question: how do the bankers earn money ?

I don`t think they do actually 'earn' money; it`s mostly gambling (with other people`s money) and usury.

Of course they do, Debs. Without venture capital provided by banks, many small businesses would fail to start, fail to operate and fail to grow, in may cases, into export-earning enterprises. Plus the fact that the City earns a vast amount of foreign income through the provision of financial services to other countries.

Of course there are bad apples in every cart, and these should be rooted out. IMHO, the important thing for banks to do now is to show that they can use their profitability for the benefot of the wider community, taking a leaf perhaps from the Gurney Quakers. 

wrong.. the same can be done with a bank thats owned by public   no need to be private!
 
foreign credits also means a foreign robbery

1. There speaks someone who doesn't understand the benefits of competition.

2. Foreign credits? If a country wants to do business with another country and the City of London facilitates it, how can that be robbery? 

1. why is necessary comptetition ? because its necessary to drop the price of labour..
 
tell me why community has to pay extra if it can be done without paying..
 
 
2..in a credit bussiness , there are 2 sides.. a looser and a winner..

1. Nothing to do with labour at all. Competition provides the consumer (and that includes your beloved workers) with the best value and the widest choice of product. Perhaps that explains why the former East Germany offered....the government Trabant, whilst the filthy capitalist West offered a wide range from the Ford Fiesta to the Aston Martin. 

2. Why are you going on about credit? The City of London provides a financial market place where foreign companies/countries can choose from a wide range of services on offer which can enable them  to do their business with others. 

...and you still a haven't provided me with your definition of capitalism.   

Ask Mr Den about competition when it comes to buying his 47kg gas bottles......He prefers the word cartel.....

[Varche]

fantastic.  It is still all a giant ponzi scheme that dwarfs the EU so called bail out fund. Everybodies pensions are linked to the price of pork bellies and orange juice.

A bit of light entertainment before bed.



gamble well and pay yourself well particularly if you are the bosses.

gamble badly and the shareholders or pension fund holders take a hit or if the worst comes to the worst the people bail you out.

Encourage rampant consumerism, the never say NO society.

Try telling it to anyone coming up to retirement without whining on and on about its the recession, its the crisis, there is no growth.......... And just who was responsible for all that? It wasn't the honest joe worker putting in that bit extra to make himself a better life.

Bloodsuckers in the main though I accept Albs maybe right that there are a few decent ones out there.

[Dishevelled Den]

IMHO, "we" have lost our way: ethically, societally, fiscally and politically

Of that Deb, there is no doubt.  We inhabit a world where self interest is the talisman of the many, and the accumulation of wealth is the amulet chosen by such people to ward against the lack of financial standing and influence they deem necessary to have in this materialistic age.

An age when personal excess has been fed and nurtured by those in politics, big business, the banking and financial industries and a media sector guilty of perverting and devaluing the very language we speak.

And, I might add, a society in which the religious and pious have failed to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and have instead dived into the political quagmire, offering little of the spiritual alternative to which many aspire...

Indeed so and, from a distinctly impious and very practical perspective, what lies at the root of it all?  Avarice fed by the acquisition of money, power and influence.

Funnily enough, although this thread is about the first of those three, it is the latter two that hold the key. 

Yes, a trilogy of factors that has led many astray.

[Dishevelled Den]

1. Nothing to do with labour at all. Competition provides the consumer (and that includes your beloved workers) with the best value and the widest choice of product. Perhaps that explains why the former East Germany offered....the government Trabant, whilst the filthy capitalist West offered a wide range from the Ford Fiesta to the Aston Martin. 

2. Why are you going on about credit? The City of London provides a financial market place where foreign companies/countries can choose from a wide range of services on offer which can enable them  to do their business with others. 

...and you still a haven't provided me with your definition of capitalism.   

Ask Mr Den about competition when it comes to buying his 47kg gas bottles......He prefers the word cartel.....

I've moved on from that Opti and now refer to the 'competition' we see in this country as being naked banditry, in many cases

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

fantastic.  It is still all a giant ponzi scheme that dwarfs the EU so called bail out fund. Everybodies pensions are linked to the price of pork bellies and orange juice.

A bit of light entertainment before bed.



gamble well and pay yourself well particularly if you are the bosses.

gamble badly and the shareholders or pension fund holders take a hit or if the worst comes to the worst the people bail you out.

Encourage rampant consumerism, the never say NO society.

Try telling it to anyone coming up to retirement without whining on and on about its the recession, its the crisis, there is no growth.......... And just who was responsible for all that? It wasn't the honest joe worker putting in that bit extra to make himself a better life.

Bloodsuckers in the main though I accept Albs maybe right that there are a few decent ones out there.

Spot on, Varche......The bankers simply can't lose.

[Rods2]

The biggest problem in banking is that there are too few banks and too little competition and they therefore have too big a grip on a countries / societies well being, charge too much and provide too little with poor service (like all monopolies) they are too big to fail, so they have lost the moral hazard that if you run a business badly then the investors either have too bail it out, it is taken over by another business or it goes bust.

The banking crisis is to a large extent a failure of regulation and political meddling. The US sub-prime crisis was caused by Clinton making the banks provide mortgages to poor people with no collateral. This was then made worse by the bankers in many cases committing fraud, by putting the mortgages into packages and selling them to other financial institutions at their own false valuations. How many banks / bankers in the US have been prosecuted for this, NONE, as there is no political will to enforce the law. Why, because when a group of politicians and bankers get together they all have brown noses.

This is good read on bank reform with some very good points, like investment banks should be partnerships, so the moral hazard starts and end with the people running them. If they make money you get a bonus, if they don't then it is cheque book out time. 

http://www.mindfulmoney.co.uk/wp/shaun-richards/a-plan-for-reforming-the-uk-economy-start-with-the-banks-right-now/

Unfortunately, banks are a vital part of modern society, their excesses aren't acceptable and they should be heavily regulated to prevent them. Many of the services they do provide are necessary for an economy too function, this includes the Futures Market, which I often see people saying they should be banned. If anybody wants an explanation on how they work and why they are vital for many industries then I'm happy to provide this.

Cem - Nobody would pick capitalism or democracy as a system, until they look at the alternatives - Winston Churchill. All command driven economies have failed and will always fail. Capitalism works on a bottom up approach created by demand for products and services and anybody / everybody is free to join in by running their own business. Command economies, socialism / communism rely on a top down approach where committees have to be all seeing in deciding on investment and production targets, which they can't foresee so get it wrong, and as it is a closed system you are either a worker on a fixed wage or on a committee (with privileges)  by being a member of the political ruling party.

Nationalised industries don't work as they are run at the will (and whim) of politicians and are monopolies, not on commercial grounds. Most countries have Monopoly Commissions to a stop company or a small number of companies taking over or wiping out all competition, so they become monopolies. But if a Government runs something, then it is considered good to be a monopoly NHS, Education, provision of local services etc. Can somebody please explain this?

[mantahatch]

Did anyone watch this?

The greedy self-serving parasites who currently inhabit the banking world, could learn much from the victorian philanthropists who went before them.....

Not to worry, we will soon see us back to the levels of the victorians with the pay gap etc.