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[Lazydocker]

I wasn't saying that there is no need for lights and sirens... Quite the opposite actually With lights and sirens going there is no reason for them to have crossed

At the end of the day, the only real failing here, IMO, lies with the girls who chose to ignore the rather blatant warnings and paid the ultimate, tragic price. In addition, the train driver has probably had his life ruined too

[TheBoy]

In addition, the train driver has probably had his life ruined too

Indeed, he is the one I have the most sympathy for, followed by the track walkers and maintence peeps who have to gather and scrape off all the bits, and ensure they go in the right bags 

[albitz]

If you spend the time to study all the facts of the case,you may conclude that it is nowhere near as simplistic as your saying it is.
One fact of many. - Railtracks own safety inspectors said that the gates should have locks installed, years before the girls were killed. They were completely ignored.Then when the girls were killed,Railtrack hid this info from anyone who had an interest in investigating the incident. For that reason alone,they should bve rather gassed.

[TheBoy]

If you spend the time to study all the facts of the case,you may conclude that it is nowhere near as simplistic as your saying it is.
One fact of many. - Railtracks own safety inspectors said that the gates should have locks installed, years before the girls were killed. They were completely ignored.Then when the girls were killed,Railtrack hid this info from anyone who had an interest in investigating the incident. For that reason alone,they should bve rather gassed.

No, it is simplistic.  Like crossing the road, which nowadays always seems to be the drivers fault when the little brats walk out into road without looking, concentrating on sending messages on their gooseberrys.

Crossing gatelocks were never fitted when I was young. I managed to attain the single digit IQ needed to cross safely.


We pander to stupid people, which degenerates into a society of even more stupid people, and ultimately end up with a nanny state.  Not the direction I want to see the once Great Britain go in.

[albitz]

I have a hatred of the nanny state which runs at least as deep as it does with you,but, this is nothing to do with that.Your simply jumping to the conclusion that it is.I repeat - if you take the time to study the facts of the case,you just might not make ludicrous,crassly insensitive statements about the horrific deaths of two poor little girls. I think I ought to try to stay away from this thread for a while,as I may well say something which initiates a ban.

[cem_devecioglu]

there are always 2 sides of coin.. in that case , the officials didnt take the necessary precaution , as understood from the report.. and the girls unfortunately made the deadly mistake.. sadly there is no way to bring them back, but I hope they dont die for nothing and the officials do everything necessary..

[feeutfo]

I have a hatred of the nanny state which runs at least as deep as it does with you,but, this is nothing to do with that.Your simply jumping to the conclusion that it is.I repeat - if you take the time to study the facts of the case,you just might not make ludicrous,crassly insensitive statements about the horrific deaths of two poor little girls. I think I ought to try to stay away from this thread for a while,as I may well say something which initiates a ban.

Wouldn't be the end of the world Albs.

[TheBoy]

I have a hatred of the nanny state which runs at least as deep as it does with you,but, this is nothing to do with that.Your simply jumping to the conclusion that it is.I repeat - if you take the time to study the facts of the case,you just might not make ludicrous,crassly insensitive statements about the horrific deaths of two poor little girls. I think I ought to try to stay away from this thread for a while,as I may well say something which initiates a ban.

I think your hatred of large, faceless companies is outweighing your views on nanny states. In fact, your arguments seem to be in favour of nanny states 


Whatever Network Rail are guilty of - my dislike of trains is well known, so I'd love to see them taken to the cleaners and ultimately shut down - doesn't take away from the fact that these young ladies (teenagers, not toddlers) ignored all the lights, sirens and the fact the barriers wouldn't let traffic through, and decided to cross anyway. Clearly without looking. Thats the simplistic facts.

Lack of common sense got them killed. Not NR. Not a suit. Just lack of any sense. Probably because they are used to the nanny state, where everything remotely dangerous needs so much beaurocracy around, its unworkable.

Just (lack of) pure common sense. Whether that blame belongs to the young ladies, or their parents is undecided, but while we have a frenzy over "lets kick NR, as they are a big, easy target", that debate is seemingly sidelined.

[TheBoy]

I have a hatred of the nanny state which runs at least as deep as it does with you,but, this is nothing to do with that.Your simply jumping to the conclusion that it is.I repeat - if you take the time to study the facts of the case,you just might not make ludicrous,crassly insensitive statements about the horrific deaths of two poor little girls. I think I ought to try to stay away from this thread for a while,as I may well say something which initiates a ban.

Wouldn't be the end of the world Albs.

If I have read the intentions of that remark correctly, I think you could be close to a ban chrisgixer 

(apologies if I have misread the meaning)

[feeutfo]

I have a hatred of the nanny state which runs at least as deep as it does with you,but, this is nothing to do with that.Your simply jumping to the conclusion that it is.I repeat - if you take the time to study the facts of the case,you just might not make ludicrous,crassly insensitive statements about the horrific deaths of two poor little girls. I think I ought to try to stay away from this thread for a while,as I may well say something which initiates a ban.

Wouldn't be the end of the world Albs.

If I have read the intentions of that remark correctly, I think you could be close to a ban chrisgixer 

(apologies if I have misread the meaning)

...from Albs's point of view. Should we shy away from our opinions to please an Admin. I think not.

[cem_devecioglu]

   imo tonight most people here have too much static electric.. 

[TheBoy]

I have a hatred of the nanny state which runs at least as deep as it does with you,but, this is nothing to do with that.Your simply jumping to the conclusion that it is.I repeat - if you take the time to study the facts of the case,you just might not make ludicrous,crassly insensitive statements about the horrific deaths of two poor little girls. I think I ought to try to stay away from this thread for a while,as I may well say something which initiates a ban.

Wouldn't be the end of the world Albs.

If I have read the intentions of that remark correctly, I think you could be close to a ban chrisgixer 

(apologies if I have misread the meaning)

...from Albs's point of view. Should we shy away from our opinions to please an Admin. I think not.

Not sure I understand what you are getting at, sorry  .  Remember I'm just the stupid kid from the local comp, just intelligent enough to cross a level crossing

Also, please bear in mind, here I am a member just like anyone else. Moderator hat only goes on when required. You know that better than most. My views are no more important or unimportant than anyone elses.

Alb's viewpoint is absolutely as valid as mine. We just happen to differ on which is the correct viewpoint. But we are both allowed to share our sides of the debate, as long as its not outside expected behaviour here.


Seems I misread your tone, sorry for that. Truely 

[albitz]

Had quite a lot of rather strong Chilean wine,and about to watch the film about the TT starring Guy Martin.
Will leave this for the moment,but Im sure will revisit it later,and reply where apt.

[feeutfo]

I have a hatred of the nanny state which runs at least as deep as it does with you,but, this is nothing to do with that.Your simply jumping to the conclusion that it is.I repeat - if you take the time to study the facts of the case,you just might not make ludicrous,crassly insensitive statements about the horrific deaths of two poor little girls. I think I ought to try to stay away from this thread for a while,as I may well say something which initiates a ban.

Wouldn't be the end of the world Albs.

If I have read the intentions of that remark correctly, I think you could be close to a ban chrisgixer 

(apologies if I have misread the meaning)

...from Albs's point of view. Should we shy away from our opinions to please an Admin. I think not.

Not sure I understand what you are getting at, sorry  .  Remember I'm just the stupid kid from the local comp, just intelligent enough to cross a level crossing

Also, please bear in mind, here I am a member just like anyone else. Moderator hat only goes on when required. You know that better than most. My views are no more important or unimportant than anyone elses.

Alb's viewpoint is absolutely as valid as mine. We just happen to differ on which is the correct viewpoint. But we are both allowed to share our sides of the debate, as long as its not outside expected behaviour here.


Seems I misread your tone, sorry for that. Truely 

we where all fine til you came on     ...

[TheBoy]

there are always 2 sides of coin.. in that case , the officials didnt take the necessary precaution , as understood from the report.. and the girls unfortunately made the deadly mistake.. sadly there is no way to bring them back, but I hope they dont die for nothing and the officials do everything necessary..

Whilst I fully understand, and to some extent agree with what you are saying, I have to, errrrr, disagree . To an extent.


Here is a not dissimilar scenario.

About 5yrs ago, in Oxford, a woman had taken her kids, and some others, to a birthday party. At some point, they had to change venue (can't remember specifics, maybe from McDonalds to the birthday boy's house??), but there were only 2 adults/cars. So one of the women packed about 10 kids in her people carrier, and proceeded along the Oxford ringroad, a fast dual carriageway, with no central barrier, as the verge between carriageways was very wide.

Anyway, as she approached the MINI plant, she was obviously distracted by one of the kids in the back, and she swerved, crossed the reservation, into oncoming traffic. All killed. Sadly. Tradgically.

Because it had to be somebody's fault, and it couldn't possibly be the parent being wholly irresponsible having that many kids in the car (insured for 7, not 11), and not concentrating on driving, the end result is it had to be the fault of the authorities, so now its a 50mph limit (and a central barrier of concrete K rails built).

Ridiculous.