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[albitz]

I cant understand why rising house prices are considered to be a good thing,unless your an estate agent (or currently caught in an equity trap). Who gains.Not the homeowner,unless they sell up and go and live in a tent.Prices were pushed up by the economic boom coupled to mass immigration,which caused a housing shortage.Its only that remaining housing shortage which has prevented a sudden and very sharp drop in prices imo.
It might not matter too much one way or the other to a lot of people until their kids get to the age where they want to set up their own homes. Then the consequences may well become more obvious.

[davethediver]

PayDay loans are wrong on many fronts and should be banned, as the vulnerable (and by that i mean people who may fall into circumstances they CANNOT prevent) will be seduced by them. After traditional borrowing methods have closed the doors, bank, cards (to embarrassed to ask family or friends).

But the comments earlier about 30-60K in debt and how or why? When bankruptcy is so easy to file for I find harsh! A lot of people out there responsible for other peoples livelihoods will keep a business afloat (rightly or wrongly) on personal credit cards for as long as they can, in the hope that it will all be OK, many sole traders didn't go down the Ltd and put all on the line. 



 

[paul.lovejoy]

PayDay loans are wrong on many fronts and should be banned, as the vulnerable (and by that i mean people who may fall into circumstances they CANNOT prevent) will be seduced by them. After traditional borrowing methods have closed the doors, bank, cards (to embarrassed to ask family or friends).

But the comments earlier about 30-60K in debt and how or why? When bankruptcy is so easy to file for I find harsh! A lot of people out there responsible for other peoples livelihoods will keep a business afloat (rightly or wrongly) on personal credit cards for as long as they can, in the hope that it will all be OK, many sole traders didn't go down the Ltd and put all on the line. 

bloody big plus 1

£160k worth after buisness partner done a runner we owed tax and finance companies oh yes and company credit cards but i paid all my workers and suppliers could have gone tits up but choose to fight it and still am 8 years later.if i was a limited company i could have just walked away.in some respects should have just gone bankrupt. Debt is a horrible thing we all have it at some point but to class people as idiots that get in to problems is well a little bit silly

and before the same people probably say well you chose to set up a company hell yes and i take full responsibilty for it not bankrupt yet but if i did my wife would have a much better life

something else about debt the people that are payers are the ones that are perssued..once you make any offer or payment they have you. The inland revenue especially

personal debt is the same thing seen lots of people in trouble and helped them rather than take the simple class them as an idiot approach....There are of course people that are just out to abuse any system available

[Rods2]

Paul good on you for tuffing it out and seeing it through, I hope you are now getting your just rewards now? 

Unfortunately, when you are an entrepreneur and take calculated risks, it only goes right some of the time but not all of the time. Many start ups are funded by credit cards as it is virtually impossible to get funding from banks. To be a successful entrepreneur you have to be optimistic, so believe what you are doing will work. Many entrepreneurs including myself, would have done things differently with the benefit of hindsight and their are things like the current recession outside of your control.

As a serial entrepreneur, you take on the chin and the losses when things go wrong, but when the next idea or company is successful and you make reasonable profits, it can't efficiently, replenish your losses as 50% goes in tax, not to mention all of the intrusive, choking red tape. Before anybody says you can carry losses forward, that is correct but only for 3 years and most business start ups need a longer cycle than that to make good profits to make up the losses and it has to be in the same area as the previous business.

Unfortunately this socialist state country is no longer geared up for enterprise which is why we have dropped from 2nd best place in the world to do business to 37th and still falling. It is also party why the rich to poor ratio is expanding as it is very difficult to start a business and end up reasonably rich in this country. Capitalism is inclusive anybody can join in and it can and does make poor people wealthy.

The risk v reward ratio, to me is no longer viable in the UK which is why I'm going abroad. I'm been planning and implementing things for sometime and I can't wait to be off to a low tax country, so I get the benefits from my enterprise and hard work. I don't mind doing 100 hour weeks when in business start up mode, but how can I justify my family suffering while I'm giving 50 hours of that to the bunch of breakwits, with their big toughs and gluttony, where they stuff themselves to the gills on their MP perks and expenses, while the screw run the country. 

[paul.lovejoy]

respect to that man well said sir

only thing with me is wont be doing it all over again 160k was a huge loss to take and in honesty one i did not see coming me ex partners wife was our accountant but still my responsibility which is why he is still alive. Anyone that sets up a business has my respect especially nowadays its a lot harder and of course the reason for the topic anyone in debt has my sympathy not ridicule

i think is outragious that companies can charge the sort of interest they do and as previously pointed out they will do nothing really to help with the debt only make matters worse. Desperate times call for desperate measures and at times you dont think of everything just getting some money in your account to pay out again

[paul.lovejoy]

just on a much brighter note dont regret a thing every cloud has a silver lining just over 4 years ago met wifey love at first site and now every days a good day if circumstances had been any different i may not have ever met her

[albitz]

PayDay loans are wrong on many fronts and should be banned, as the vulnerable (and by that i mean people who may fall into circumstances they CANNOT prevent) will be seduced by them. After traditional borrowing methods have closed the doors, bank, cards (to embarrassed to ask family or friends).

But the comments earlier about 30-60K in debt and how or why? When bankruptcy is so easy to file for I find harsh! A lot of people out there responsible for other peoples livelihoods will keep a business afloat (rightly or wrongly) on personal credit cards for as long as they can, in the hope that it will all be OK, many sole traders didn't go down the Ltd and put all on the line. 

Fair comment.The remarks about credit card debt - I think Tunnie probably had in mind people who just rack up huge debt by continuously spending money they dont have on cards,rather than adapt a lower standard of living,and therefore living within their means.Thats how it came across to me anyway,which was why I agreed.Obviously there are exceptions and the type of circumstances you and Paul describe prove the rule.

Having said that. Credit card companies will allow people in their teens to have cards and run up large debts,before they know their arse from their elbow,and imo that just shouldnt be allowed.They take out the card,and then the company keep informing them that their limit has been raised,again and again.

[aaronjb]

I cant understand why rising house prices are considered to be a good thing,unless your an estate agent (or currently caught in an equity trap). Who gains.Not the homeowner,unless they sell up and go and live in a tent.

Investors, that's who. Many of whom are home owners - some are even considering the property they are living in as an investment (i.e. a retirement fund)..

[TheBoy]

Tunnie, although I really do like you and see part of your point, I do think you come out with some shite.
Not all people have had shall we say an affluent up bringing, and have had to go to work when leaving school to help pay bills etc at home. Some have been married even got a couple of children at your age, which believe me is expensive.
I have a mate who has always had plenty of money, lovely house, always flash cars but not any children. I had this sort of chat with him about 14 years ago. Then around 5 years ago his Mrs gave birth to a gorgeous little girl. I have never heard another person complain on how much money children cost etc .....

When Doultons closed down around here which employed thousands of people there was some hard times alot of which still have not found other jobs.

Perhaps a little more thought about other peoples finacial difficulties especially at this time.

Which I did, within a week of leaving school I had a job at Tesco as a shelf stacker, during my time at college I worked at another Tesco in Bread section, followed by a corner shop, 6AM starts were fun! Even took an addition job at Currys one Christmas earning that little bit more, followed by a Marketing Exective job in my last college years.

So between end of school & end of college, I worked quite a few jobs - I saved my money, I did not pish it up a wall on drugs & booze

I choose to save my money, save up for the things I want. After Uni (student loan provided me enough funds), saved every penny I could for 3 years to fund a flat deposit. I took additional work for 6 months working 16 days straight at times, to fund my little holidays.

I remain of my opinion that most people (still employed) with £60k debts are idiots & deserve it. Most I've ever had on a credit card is around £2k, following a trip to Japan. There is no reason why you should rack up that much debt on credit card(s)!

Never spend what you cannot afford. If you don't have the money to pay for it at the end of the month, don't get it!

Whilst I admire your financial management - I've said before that I think you have your head screwed on the right way when it comes to managing money - you have had a fairly priviledged upbringing compared to many.  Thats not meant to sound bad, or be a criticism. Fair play to your parents for being able to provide that.

But you must understand that, for some people, there are genuine reasons, beyond stupidity, why they find themselves in such a situation.

Lets take a scenario; suppose you were doing 12hr shifts in a factory, and had since you were 16. Probably minimum wage, and physical enough that you couldn't do part time jobs on the side. Married with a young kid, renting a small flat, as no way can you afford to save up for a deposit. Then that job goes. Can't afford to pay the rent, let alone eat. Yet you must provide your family with a roof. No qualifications to get another job, even if they were available...   ...waiting list for social housing is too long...   ...then next month seems like an awful long way away, when having somewhere to sleep tonight is your primary concern.


When I left school at 18, I was lucky enough to get a job, initially temporary, at British Telecom, in its day, considered job for life.  My folks moved to Cambridgeshire to look after my grandparents.  I made the decision to stay in Aylesbury, as if I could get a permenent job at British Telecom, I would have long term security, at a time when we were in high unemployement, higher than now. I think my pay was around £50 a week, and the room I rented in a house was £35 a week. £15 to live on doesn't save much of a deposit, I couldn't afford a car either. Fortunately, I never had to take any loans during that period - not that anyone would give one, as I had no security, and the Bank of England rate was at 15% then. And I considered myself one of the lucky ones, as although money was tight (very!!) and times were hard, they weren't that hard on the scale of things.  From the time I left home in 1988 until the year Lady Di died (1996?), I never went abroad, the most I (latterly, we) could afford was a tent in the UK. As said, I don't feel particularly hard done by, or think I had a hard start to life after I left home - there are many who were far worse off


I do agree, though, some people will never be able to manage money. I know people who hard sufficient income for a comfortable life, but wanted to live a step above, so took out credit cards to pay off credit cards which were taken to pay off credit cards etc. Needless to say, when the banks tightened there own belts, they were left in the brown stuff. And its purely their own fault.  I'm old fashioned, nothing goes on the credit card unless I know it can be paid off at the end of the month, although I know I'm luckier than many to have that luxury.


If we don't have these payday loans out in the open, we'll probably get back to the door-to-door loans from not-so-nice people, whereby losing everything means more than just losing possesions...

[aaronjb]

All very well said, TB

Personally speaking there was a time when I had close to £25k on credit cards - right around the time I came back to full time employment from (attempting) to work for myself in a highly competitive market and with all the sales skills of a lump of coal. For two years all I came across were people wanting something for nothing and, if I was lucky, those who wanted to 'trade' skills. Neither of which pays the mortgage..

Now, had I been sensible, I would have sold the flat and moved back in with my parents but, frankly, I'd rather have sliced off a testicle than move back home at 25.. so I stuck it out, supporting myself on credit cards (back when banks would give them to anyone!) and the occasional loan from the Bank of Mum & Dad when the mortgage was about to bounce and there was nothing left in credit anywhere.

I'm still paying that off, now, though it's about a third of it's original size. I could have paid it off much sooner, too, had I not chosen to move house and buy nice things - if I'd just put all my bonus money & shares into it.

Then again, had I sat on the shares I got at $30ea and sold at their peak of $140ea I'd have had enough money (after tax) to pay for my current house outright. Hindsight is a wonderful thing..

[albitz]

I cant understand why rising house prices are considered to be a good thing,unless your an estate agent (or currently caught in an equity trap). Who gains.Not the homeowner,unless they sell up and go and live in a tent.

Investors, that's who. Many of whom are home owners - some are even considering the property they are living in as an investment (i.e. a retirement fund)..

May not be the wisest thing though,unless its a part of an investment portfolio. Its potentially risky if it is the only basket which all the eggs are in.There have been reports of a trend among migrants to save hard here,then go home and buy a very nice house which they couldnt ordinarily have afforded.
If that trend grows and large numbers of migrants return to their home countries property prices in this country will fall off a cliff. The shortage of supply for the current demand is one of only two things preventing it at the moment. The other thing is low interest rates,but they cant stay this low forever. They will rise again as soon as there is an opportunity for them to do so.
Ive often heard it said that your home should be just that,and not viewed as an investment. Makes sense to me tbh.

[Lazydocker]

Well said TB

Tunnie, you may have had jobs all the way through but how much were you paying in rent/housekeeping? You have been very lucky

I don't feel hard done by, but I have had tough times. I was all set up and would probably have paid off my mortgage by now if I hadn't gotten divorced I lost everything I came away from that marriage with 2 suitcases of clothes, a sofa, TV, PS2, van, motorbike, my tools and about £4k. I then had to restart my life from scratch... Somewhere to live, a job, everything

Things were just getting pretty comfortable about October last year, then I've been off sick from the end of November... Fortunately I was on full pay until June/early July, but when that stopped I had nothing coming in Still had all the existing expenses though Any money I had aside has long since gone and things are tight. The credit cards had to take a beating so that we could afford to pay the mortgage and household expenses, otherwise we'd be staring down the barrel of repossession by now

What I'm trying to say is that not everything is as simple as black and white, the way you view it. There are circumstances beyond your control

Thankfully things seem to be improving now (after such a quiet January) and all should (hopefully) be back on an even keel within a couple of months, but not everyone gets into debt through carelessness

[aaronjb]

May not be the wisest thing though,unless its a part of an investment portfolio. Its potentially risky if it is the only basket which all the eggs are in.There have been reports of a trend among migrants to save hard here,then go home and buy a very nice house which they couldnt ordinarily have afforded.
If that trend grows and large numbers of migrants return to their home countries property prices in this country will fall off a cliff. The shortage of supply for the current demand is one of only two things preventing it at the moment. The other thing is low interest rates,but they cant stay this low forever. They will rise again as soon as there is an opportunity for them to do so.

I'm sure the numbers of migrants returning home will continue to rise, especially as standards of living in home countries rises - but (last I checked, anyway) the number entering the country is also rising, so we're not seeing a mass exodus..

..yet, anyway

(He says, looking around the office - one of only three English people along with an American, Canadian, Hungarian, Italian and a Czech - on a full day there'd be a Pole and a Spaniard, as well.. )

[Marks DTM Calib]

The issue I have is that these pay day loans are a right royal rip off.

Given the interest rate above of 1737%, that equates to around 4.76% per day!.

So if you borrow 100 quid for one week you pay back 132.18!.....so 32+ quid interest in a WEEK!.

If you consider the same with a credit card you would pay 38p (based on an APR of 35%).

For me, a credit union application would be more sensible as they are often around the 25% PA interest rates.

These scum survive only because there are people who know no better and because they advertise....maybe they should be banned from advertising if thier calculated APR is above 50% or x times the BoE base rate......

[I_want_an_Omega]

Tunnie, although I really do like you and see part of your point, I do think you come out with some shite.
Not all people have had shall we say an affluent up bringing, and have had to go to work when leaving school to help pay bills etc at home. Some have been married even got a couple of children at your age, which believe me is expensive.
I have a mate who has always had plenty of money, lovely house, always flash cars but not any children. I had this sort of chat with him about 14 years ago. Then around 5 years ago his Mrs gave birth to a gorgeous little girl. I have never heard another person complain on how much money children cost etc .....

When Doultons closed down around here which employed thousands of people there was some hard times alot of which still have not found other jobs.

Perhaps a little more thought about other peoples finacial difficulties especially at this time.

Well said Daz