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[Big_Al]

From the link
Re Li ion
Advantages are no memory effect, much greater capacity for same weight as Nimh or Nicad. Ability to hold full charge for long periods. Disposal is non toxic.
Disadvantages include - liable to explode if overcharged, or damage if cell voltage drops too low. For power tools this can be an abrupt stop as sensors detect this. Generally not as good power output as Nicad or Nimh (tends to die under heavy loads). Complicated charging circuits with circuit boards inside the battery.
What equipment should I buy - NICAD, NIMH or Li-ION?
My advise would be to avoid Lithium Ion batteries and stick to the traditional HQ NICAD or NIMH type.
Reason for this is because manufacturers of Lithium Ion batteries have become very clever in their design of protective circuits that are necessary but easy to include extras that prevent repairs, thus ensuring you have to buy a replacement from them at their price - which will be high!
Makita for example on their 14.4V and 18V, 3Ah range the circuit locks up after 750 charges, it will no longer charge on a Makita charger again, regardless if the battery is still good. Or if it detects a fault on the cells, after 3 attempts to re-charge, locks up and will never charge again on a Makita charger, even if the cells have been replaced. There is no way round this and Makita will not even answer queries about it. There are also 3 different types of Li-Ion cells used by various manufactures which are all difficult to obtain in the UK.

Crikey .  .thats bad  . . .    will be moving away from makita Li-on from now on then     cost over £700 that 3 peice set with 3 x 3ah batteries 

But have been pleased with the service from the Ni-cad tools i've got from them  . . still have some 18v ni cads that have been in everyday use for 4 years +

[chrisgixer]

I'm a bit wary of that link in case Dtm goes off on one about memory effect being non existent.

The link is just an example, but some valid points.

[Rods2]

Well worth knowing that about Makita and L-ion batteries being limited to 750 charges. I will make sure I never buy any of their tools. To me this is cynical exploitation of the customer. 

It is interesting that DeWalt have taken a different approach with their own formulation of phosphate Li Ion batteries that they claim last over 2000 charge cycles, which is about 3x that of their competitors. 

http://toolmonger.com/2009/06/05/dewalt-nano-phosphate-lithium-ion-technology/

[Rods2]

Here is an interesting article on somebody working with and soldering Li Ion batteries, where he is using the DeWalt ones in a model aircraft!

http://www.slkelectronics.com/DeWalt/packs.htm

[Taxi_Driver]

I'd get the battery out and take it to a battery shop....

Theres one in Swindon....that advertises summat like

"If we havent got one in stock, we'll order it, if we carnt order it, we'll make it, if we carnt make it, you dont need it"

[chrisgixer]

I'd get the battery out and take it to a battery shop....

Theres one in Swindon....that advertises summat like

"If we havent got one in stock, we'll order it, if we carnt order it, we'll make it, if we carnt make it, you dont need it"

that I like

[TheBoy]

The same electronic restrictions can be fitted to any battery technology.

If the battery type is popular enough, the battery refurbers will have the ability to reset any counters. Most Lithium Ion batts are good for approx 300 charges, if looked after, so a cut off at 700 isn't so bad, as thats easily 2 sets of cells.

[chrisgixer]

The same electronic restrictions can be fitted to any battery technology.

If the battery type is popular enough, the battery refurbers will have the ability to reset any counters. Most Lithium Ion batts are good for approx 300 charges, if looked after, so a cut off at 700 isn't so bad, as thats easily 2 sets of cells.

...and would you buy Makita?

[AndyRoid]

...and would you buy Makita?

The Bosch Pro range has always worked for me.
The prices might make you open your eyes slightly, but they are worth every penny IMHO.

[RobG]

...and would you buy Makita?

The Bosch Pro range has always worked for me.
The prices might make you open your eyes slightly, but they are worth every penny IMHO.

Had a 24V SDS and took out the extra 2 years extended warranty. After app. 18 months the forward gear went, sent it back to Bosch, returned two weeks later in bits with an accompanying letter stating that their service dept. had decided it was "fair wear and tear" so no repair unless I paid. Not very impressed

[TheBoy]

The same electronic restrictions can be fitted to any battery technology.

If the battery type is popular enough, the battery refurbers will have the ability to reset any counters. Most Lithium Ion batts are good for approx 300 charges, if looked after, so a cut off at 700 isn't so bad, as thats easily 2 sets of cells.

...and would you buy Makita?

The battery restrictions mentioned above would not necessarily put me off...

[Sir Tigger KC]

...and would you buy Makita?

No.  I bought a Makita cordless drill 12 months ago to replace my £20 Focus own brand cordless and it's shite in comparison! 

[Bionic]

 
Tried it with my 18v DeWalt and ended up spending more than a new DeWalt battery would have cost me after having to buy one new cell after another.........
No more repair attempts for me and the instruction book I bought goes into the bin.............
I will also stick to Li-On in the future cos the standard type are more bother than they are worth as my experience demonstrates.
Good luck to those who want to try the repair route though. have a swear box handy too................

[AndyRoid]

Had a 24V SDS and took out the extra 2 years extended warranty. After app. 18 months the forward gear went, sent it back to Bosch, returned two weeks later in bits with an accompanying letter stating that their service dept. had decided it was "fair wear and tear" so no repair unless I paid. Not very impressed

I have the 14.4, as well as the 24 and 36 SDS models and the only one showing signs of wear is the 24 (the clutch occasionally lets go when I spin a 4" core bit up).

The 14.4 can quite easily punch a 4" hole through a double skin (9") brick wall, although you do have to swap the battery for a fresh one at the three quarter mark.

None of my drills are less than 3 years old and they are still (essentially) going strong, but then again I would expect that kind of performance given the RRP of some of them (for instance, the 36 retails at £599).

[chrisgixer]

Are they NiCad, NiMH or LION?

Obviously, the cells have to be right type and size. Replacement is electrically easy in most, with hard parts being disassmebly, though some have a controller designed to prevent cell replacement.

Be aware, esp for Lithium Ion types, a lot of low cost cells coming from unvalidated sources (egay, Amazon Marketplace, Play etc etc) are the ones that explode, that people have bought up cheap.

A good, meaty soldering iron is needed, and don't cook the cells in the process, as they have the same red anodised look finish.


(my experieneces based on laptop batteries (and RC cars for NiCads), but similar to power tool batteries)

Had mine apart. Would have to remove an individual cell to get any ID off them, but they look exactly the same as those in the link in post 1, but without the cardboard wrapping.