Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[chrisgixer]

Following Tunnies impact wrench thread I got thinking that I'm going to be buggered and looking at a big bill to replace my cordless hitachi tool set, once my li ion batteries die.
Unless I can refurb them?

A google gives;

Standard video, goes on a bit but worthwhile of your not electrically savvy
http://youtu.be/PtOS5evrqrQ

And these are my batteries with internal pics.
http://www.batterysupports.com/hitachi-ebm1830-hxp-18-volt-18v-lithium-30-amp-repair-battery-p-193.html

Doesn't look too hard even for me.

Anyone tried this?

[chrisgixer]

Another thought, are there better cells I could use?

[TheBoy]

Are they NiCad, NiMH or LION?

Obviously, the cells have to be right type and size. Replacement is electrically easy in most, with hard parts being disassmebly, though some have a controller designed to prevent cell replacement.

Be aware, esp for Lithium Ion types, a lot of low cost cells coming from unvalidated sources (egay, Amazon Marketplace, Play etc etc) are the ones that explode, that people have bought up cheap.

A good, meaty soldering iron is needed, and don't cook the cells in the process.


(my experieneces based on laptop batteries (and RC cars for NiCads), but similar to power tool batteries)

[chrisgixer]

LiIon. And they are pretty good in the Hitachi set. Going by the pics the case just unscrews, so I'll take a look for any identifying marks or spec.
The pics in Hitachi replacement link clearly show the pack has been spot welded. And numb nuts also mentions that in the video. So I guess the meaty iron is the trigger device on the table...?

If these can be repaired I will go ahead and buy more tools to go with the set. And a better iron. If not thats going to be a waist of money as I've had them a while now and "that day" is coming I'd then recommend my set to Tunnie too, it would save him a lot of money as the dregs of this old set can be snapped up in various places quite cheap now.

Generally speaking, it would also make screwfix deals on old sets the way to go. "IF" the repairs are successful, obviously.

[TheBoy]

In factory they are spot welded, I'm not aware of cheap equip to do this, so I used a 150W soldering iron in the past.  As I've lost that iron now, if spot welding equip is cheap, I may consider one.

For yours, guessing cells would be SC size, going by memory of the size of your battery pack. C would be too big I think.


There are a few companies that specialise in cell replacement, more geared up for older devices where the manufacturer no longer makes the packs, which may be more cost effective than buying equip that you wouldn't use again.

[TheBoy]

Soz, just looked at 2nd line, defo not SC or C

Nothing to compare the size with, so hard to say cell type.


My bro recently had a drill battery refurbed, as new packs not available. I'll ask him later when I see him where it was done.  I need to do one of my dewalt drill batts, as it won't charge...  ...can't complain, it was one my little bro fished out of a skip when he heard of my garage, and knew I'd need some emergency stuff .  In fact, when I see him later, he has more skip finds for me

[TheBoy]

I can't get first linky to work  , might be my end though. I'd be interested in seeing that vid...

[chrisgixer]

There appear to be videos on line on making a spot welder, but obviously that involves posting a utube link.

[Kevin Wood]

Yep, spot welders aren't that hard to make.

It's better to get tagged cells, though, IMHO. Connecting them up is just a solder job then.

[chrisgixer]

Hmmm, interesting read on li ion battery repair. Usual manufacturer sneaky ness insuring you have to buy new batteries.
For this reason he suggests avoiding lithium ion

http://www.batteryfix.co.uk/faq.htm

Will check of mine are repairable, which looks likely as the set us shown in pics on their home page, and they only have a temp sensor afaict.

He also mentions not leaving batteries out in cold temps, like in a garage over winter. Doh!

[Kevin Wood]

TBH, I avoid cordless tools, let alone Li-Ion. It's useful to have a cordless drill (although mine now has knackered batteries) but for other tools and especially if you aren't using them regularly, the time spent getting out the extension lead is insignificant compared to the battery hassles.

[chrisgixer]

TBH, I avoid cordless tools, let alone Li-Ion. It's useful to have a cordless drill (although mine now has knackered batteries) but for other tools and especially if you aren't using them regularly, the time spent getting out the extension lead is insignificant compared to the battery hassles.

Mmnah, it's no hassle if they can be refurbed for £20 after 4 or 5 years. "IF" .... ?

[Big_Al]

Did not think Li-on batteries were refurbable Chris. I looked into this a while back . .  would be a bonus if they were though.
 

got a set of makita 18v li-on tools  , circ saw , jigsaw & planer  but batteries are hugely prohibative pricewise

Screwfix want £149 .00    each  for genuine makita,  although they are available for  £70  . got 3 replacements  & they seem fine .

Makita 18 v Li-on batteries just give up on the spot  . . .  all 3 of my old ones done this  only 2 years old as well .

Although they do have heavy use 

[chrisgixer]

Did not think Li-on batteries were refurbable Chris. I looked into this a while back . .  would be a bonus if they were though.
 

got a set of makita 18v li-on tools  , circ saw , jigsaw & planer  but batteries are hugely prohibative pricewise

Screwfix want £149 .00    each  for genuine makita,  although they are available for  £70  . got 3 replacements  & they seem fine .

Makita 18 v Li-on batteries just give up on the spot  . . .  all 3 of my old ones done this  only 2 years old as well .

Although they do have heavy use 

Going by the links it depends which Li ion. It does mention makita electronics refusing point blank to run more than 750 cycles with that particular battety on that particular charger. So going by the link it's not the individual cells so much, as the electronics built in to the pack itself. Assuming they can get the replacement individual cells of course.

I cirtainly won't be buying Makita of any sort. To electronically limit a number of charges to fail mode even if the batteries are still good is unforgivable.

[chrisgixer]

From the link
Re Li ion
Advantages are no memory effect, much greater capacity for same weight as Nimh or Nicad. Ability to hold full charge for long periods. Disposal is non toxic.
Disadvantages include - liable to explode if overcharged, or damage if cell voltage drops too low. For power tools this can be an abrupt stop as sensors detect this. Generally not as good power output as Nicad or Nimh (tends to die under heavy loads). Complicated charging circuits with circuit boards inside the battery.
What equipment should I buy - NICAD, NIMH or Li-ION?
My advise would be to avoid Lithium Ion batteries and stick to the traditional HQ NICAD or NIMH type.
Reason for this is because manufacturers of Lithium Ion batteries have become very clever in their design of protective circuits that are necessary but easy to include extras that prevent repairs, thus ensuring you have to buy a replacement from them at their price - which will be high!
Makita for example on their 14.4V and 18V, 3Ah range the circuit locks up after 750 charges, it will no longer charge on a Makita charger again, regardless if the battery is still good. Or if it detects a fault on the cells, after 3 attempts to re-charge, locks up and will never charge again on a Makita charger, even if the cells have been replaced. There is no way round this and Makita will not even answer queries about it. There are also 3 different types of Li-Ion cells used by various manufactures which are all difficult to obtain in the UK.