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[tillers]

Hi Can anyone help please. I have a 3.2 Elite 03 plate, and the Engine Management Light now stays on. Getting it checked out the fault says both Cats have gone. Looking at the voltage from the output sensors they vary quite a lot and I had the comment that it was if there were no cats in there.
It has passed the emissions test no problem and I have changed the Mass airflow Sensor. I have also been advised it could be the ECU. I find it hard to believe both cats would have gone at the same time. Anyone know of anything else it could be or is there anyother way of identifying where the fault could be.

[hotel21]

Best bet is a proper code reader and then post up the codes but:-

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90581.0

will also work, if you have a read of the howtoo....   

[aaronjb]

My bet is P0430/0420 and the fix is to move the second O2 sensors to behind the main CATs rather than in front of them..

[tillers]

Thans for advice much appreciated.
How difficult is to move the sensors.

My bet is P0430/0420 and the fix is to move the second O2 sensors to behind the main CATs rather than in front of them..

[RobseyMV6]

Thans for advice much appreciated.
How difficult is to move the sensors.

My bet is P0430/0420 and the fix is to move the second O2 sensors to behind the main CATs rather than in front of them..

Done mine few weeks ago, no problem now 

[TheBoy]

And for the love of god, do NOT let any dingbat ever, ever, ever, EVER fit pattern cats. Ever.

Did I mention, never, ever fit pattern cats.

Oh, and never use pattern cats. Ever.

[martin42]

what about cam gaaskets 

[TheBoy]

what about cam gaaskets 

The day when you regret that is coming very soon....

[Entwood]

If you regularly use supermarket fuel, try changing to a "named" fuel like Shell for a while, and whilst you have a tankful of the "good" stuff give the old girl a bit of an italian tune up .... you might well find the fault appears to go away.....

My experiences with the 0420/0430 codes seems to show that they are detecting a decreasing "change" in the quality of the emissions, rather than any specific "mix" in the emissions, so running a higher quality fuel and getting the system working harder appears to be beneficial.

[hotel21]

Opening a side thread by the following comment but......z

I've always used vmax or whatever momentum/enhanced fuel in my 3.2 and the only time I got a code up was when on holiday in Devon/Cornwall a few years ago and had to use standard unleaded and the proper stuff was few and far between. Once back on Vpower it cleared within a short period of time.

Or shift the sensors........



But read the codes and post up what you got! 

[TheBoy]

Opening a side thread by the following comment but......z

I've always used vmax or whatever momentum/enhanced fuel in my 3.2 and the only time I got a code up was when on holiday in Devon/Cornwall a few years ago and had to use standard unleaded and the proper stuff was few and far between. Once back on Vpower it cleared within a short period of time.

Or shift the sensors........

Not that mine suffers the 0420/0430 codes yet, but guess fuel quality depends on what I ate the night before

[tillers]

Thanks for all the help.
Any advice on whats involved in moving the sensors ?


Regards
Tillers

[TheBoy]

Thanks for all the help.
Any advice on whats involved in moving the sensors ?


Regards
Tillers

Drilling and welding. Fairly simple stuff, although I'm not convinced my (non-existent) welding skills are quite up for it...  ...although I am getting better, after attacking a window mechanism with a welder

[TheBoy]

To clarify, drill a new hole for sensor, weld in a new boss to give sensor something to screw into.  Fit a plug in the old hole.  A pair of bosses/plugs should come to around £15

Hope that makes some sense?

[keithnic]

My garage quoted an hour's labour to move the sensors so not too bad.  Funnily enough after my eml light being on constantly for about four years, I put on a new exhaust recently and the light has gone out.  I'm expecting it to come back on again after a number of starts, but that was a month ago and the light is still off.  I bought some bosses and plugs off Ebay as I guess it will come on again at some point and I'll need to get the sensors moved.

[Brikhead]

Not that mine suffers the 0420/0430 codes yet,

From what I can gather from reading this Forum you tend to have a habit of 'using the engine to it's full potential', hopefully that should be enough to keep the light at bay...
 

[TheBoy]

Not that mine suffers the 0420/0430 codes yet,

From what I can gather from reading this Forum you tend to have a habit of 'using the engine to it's full potential', hopefully that should be enough to keep the light at bay...
 

I think in my case, the engine is still young. Give it another 30k or so....

[aaronjb]

My very own 0420/0430 used to go away with Shell fuel but alas, has come back recently and appears here to stay.. the cheeky little yellow monkey. I'll ignore mine until closer to the MOT, I think.. then I'll panic and buy a MIG welder

[tport]

I am getting P0430 every other day now but not P0420.  I think the off side cat was replaced shortly before I bought the car three years ago hence the P0420 code never shows.  I'd like to get the problem sorted once and for all but don't weld (i'll do most other things).  Can the work be done when the cat section is attached to the car or does it need to come off?  Does anybody know anywhere in the East Mids that would take on this type of work?

[feeutfo]

Op needs to confirm the codes first. But pre cat efficiency does sound most likely.
Once confirmed, I'd ask the 'tard what that's got to do with a faulty ecu. And lambdas by nature give a varying output once warm. That's how they work, otherwise there's a problem.

See pedal trick in code reading, link below \/

[Lazydocker]

I could be speaking prematurely but I have a theory that if the engine is "used to it's full potential" more often than not the pre-cat codes don't seem to show their head

[Brikhead]

I could be speaking prematurely but I have a theory that if the engine is "used to it's full potential" more often than not the pre-cat codes don't seem to show their head

I reckon that, and the use of 'super' fuel, are the solution. Assuming the vehicle still has Original cat's...

[TheBoy]

My very own 0420/0430 used to go away with Shell fuel but alas, has come back recently and appears here to stay.. the cheeky little yellow monkey. I'll ignore mine until closer to the MOT, I think.. then I'll panic and buy a MIG welder

I could always bring mine over. A welding party at gayboys. Followed by curry, obviously.

I can't use the rather welder though  

[05omegav6]

My very own 0420/0430 used to go away with Shell fuel but alas, has come back recently and appears here to stay.. the cheeky little yellow monkey. I'll ignore mine until closer to the MOT, I think.. then I'll panic and buy a MIG welder

Get to the Mot early, unplug the ecu for half hour or so and the jobs a goodun Decent fuel, the odd bottle of redex and a damn good thrashing should deal with it quite effectively

Nearly 220k and not seen the 0420/0430 for a while

[feeutfo]

My very own 0420/0430 used to go away with Shell fuel but alas, has come back recently and appears here to stay.. the cheeky little yellow monkey. I'll ignore mine until closer to the MOT, I think.. then I'll panic and buy a MIG welder

I could always bring mine over. A welding party at gayboys. Followed by curry, obviously.

I can't use the rather welder though  

Aaron has a pit. Kevin can weld, I think? And he needs his done too. Can these be done with cats in place...?

But as said above, Italian tune up driving does keep the light off longer. I know this to be true on my old car. Hotter cats being more efficient I guess...?

[05omegav6]

Less unburnt fuel going into them too

[TheBoy]

My very own 0420/0430 used to go away with Shell fuel but alas, has come back recently and appears here to stay.. the cheeky little yellow monkey. I'll ignore mine until closer to the MOT, I think.. then I'll panic and buy a MIG welder

I could always bring mine over. A welding party at gayboys. Followed by curry, obviously.

I can't use the rather welder though  

Aaron has a pit. Kevin can weld, I think? And he needs his done too. Can these be done with cats in place...?

But as said above, Italian tune up driving does keep the light off longer. I know this to be true on my old car. Hotter cats being more efficient I guess...?

I'd prefer to remove in order to protect car electronics

[aaronjb]

Aaron has a pit. Kevin can weld, I think? And he needs his done too. Can these be done with cats in place...?

Yup - have pit etc.. I've even made a passable attempt at welding in the past Just need to pick up a step cutter to make the holes.

I've also been meaning (as has Kevin) to try "O2 spacers" and see if that works, as that requires no welding.. but we've both been slack (unless Kevin's tried it since we last talked about it, anyway).

Still .. as sayid, OP needs to confirm the codes really with the pedal trick, before we derail his thread any further

[Marks DTM Calib]

The exhaust steel is mega hard due to the heat cycling it gets!

Step cutter wont do it, a good hole saw is the only reliable way and consider it disposable once complete!

I have done a few now, including a conversion on a 3.0 set for fitting to a 3.2......

[Jimbob]

The exhaust steel is mega hard due to the heat cycling it gets!

Step cutter wont do it, a good hole saw is the only reliable way and consider it disposable once complete!

I have done a few now, including a conversion on a 3.0 set for fitting to a 3.2......

looking forward to getting them on (as per http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=103986.0 )

Cheers

[TheBoy]

The exhaust steel is mega hard due to the heat cycling it gets!

Step cutter wont do it, a good hole saw is the only reliable way and consider it disposable once complete!

I have done a few now, including a conversion on a 3.0 set for fitting to a 3.2......

Indeed, it wrecks hole cutters.

Wonder if you can get diamond tipped hole cutters?

[tigers_gonads]

The exhaust steel is mega hard due to the heat cycling it gets!

Step cutter wont do it, a good hole saw is the only reliable way and consider it disposable once complete!

I have done a few now, including a conversion on a 3.0 set for fitting to a 3.2......

Indeed, it wrecks hole cutters.

Wonder if you can get diamond tipped hole cutters?

Yup 
Not cheap 
http://drillbitwarehouse.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=759&category_id=47&vmcchk=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=600001

[Kevin Wood]

Aaron has a pit. Kevin can weld, I think? And he needs his done too. Can these be done with cats in place...?

Sounds like a good plan for a pre-curry bit of mechanic-ing to me.

I suspect we need to have a plan for drilling out and replacing multiple cat-to-mid-section bolts while we're at it. Worth getting in some decent bolts and drill bits in advance.

I also know for a fact that one of my lambdas is "reluctant" to come out of the exhaust.

I've also been meaning (as has Kevin) to try "O2 spacers" and see if that works, as that requires no welding.. but we've both been slack (unless Kevin's tried it since we last talked about it, anyway).

Yes, I tried it and failed at the first hurdle. Nose of the O2 sensor was too fat to fit inside the spacer.

I think the tried and tested relocation is the best option.

[Brikhead]

The exhaust steel is mega hard due to the heat cycling it gets!

I think it's stainless which is harder than mild steel anyway, that said I managed to get through it with a regular 'Irwin' hacksaw blade quite easily, until I ran out of space under the car.

Can the work be done when the cat section is attached to the car or does it need to come off?

Id say it would be impossible to re-site the lambda's with the down pipes still on the vehicle, you'd also need to mark the new position before you removed the pipes as there isn't much clearance for them after the main cat...

[Brikhead]

...you'd also need to mark the new position before you removed the pipes as there isn't much clearance for them after the main cat...

Before the main cat, that should be!

[feeutfo]

The exhaust steel is mega hard due to the heat cycling it gets!

Step cutter wont do it, a good hole saw is the only reliable way and consider it disposable once complete!

I have done a few now, including a conversion on a 3.0 set for fitting to a 3.2......

plasma cutter...? Or would it cut through both sides? ...and if so, who was it that had one?  ...oh for a memory.

[aaronjb]

Mr 2woody has a plasma cutter - not sure you'd make a neat enough hole, though.. maybe with practice, but who wants wobbly leaky holes in their exhaust?

[feeutfo]

Mr 2woody has a plasma cutter - not sure you'd make a neat enough hole, though.. maybe with practice, but who wants wobbly leaky holes in their exhaust?

Depends how good Kevs welding is... I reckon I could get it pretty close. Start in the middle and work out. Easy sitting here though.