Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 27 March 2012, 13:19:25
-
Hey up chaps. I meant to post an update last weekend but I've been stupidly busy.
However, all went really well except for one thing but will come to that in a moment.
Big thanks to Tunnie and Rob for help with the jacking up as well as anyone else who provided help. Ended up being a piece of p*ss. Stands and jeck seem pretty sturdy following use and I think I'd be quite happy to get under the car (although I'd want to jack up/use axel stands a few more times first lol). Chocked the back wheels with bricks and shoved the car wheel under the sill for extra protection.
I will post pics tonight when I get home but on first imspection I could easily see where everything was located. Someone had cut the pad sensor and tucked it under the bleed nipple cover and taped up the end; I presume this is what's done if you want to not bother with the sensors.
Ok, so first thing was the 13mm caliper bolts. I spent ages wondering why they were just turning :-[ ;D and then re-read the guide and got some suitable grips to hold the slide pins while I unscrewed them. Had I been doing the job on my ''good'' car I'd have took the pins out, took the old grease off and greased them up with silicone paste.
Then inspecting the pads. Both of them have about 1cm of pad left so I'm assuming they wouldn't need replacing if I was to actually come to replacing. I also assume those funky cross pins at the back of the pad are the ''squalers'' that let you know you need new pads?
Ok, so next on to pushing the caliper piston back in. One word BAAAAAAAARSTARD!!!! Again this must have taken a good 20 minutes even though it had only come out about 1cm. I've seen the tools for ''spinning''. Is there a tool for pushing too? Now at this point again I would have pinched the brake hose with vice grips (with protecting rubber) and undone the bleed valve but A.) I didn't have any vice grips and B.) the bleed valve had a 9mm nut... I only have 8 & 10 wrenches ::) Anyways I got it all back in with a big pair of pliers although it was hard work. I think it bottomed out but hopefully you guys can tell me when I upload the photos ;)
Then the first big problem... the lower caliper mount bolt (18mm). OH MY FEKKING GOD. I swear some fekker must have welded it in. It took, and I swear I'm not exaggerating, 47 minutes to get that undone!!!! I hammered the wrench, put all my weight on it and for the last 20 minutes was standing on it!!!! :o Eventually it undid and thank God the upper bolt was a bit easier.
Then the second big problem which unfortunately halted any further progress..... the allen bolt holding the disc to the hub. Someone has clearly stripped it as I couldn't open it with any allen keys. :(:(:(
So all in all I'd say a great success for my first time except I do really want to get that disc off. Any ideas on how to get out the stripped allen bolt? I've seen an impact tool which will lunch the screw out and you simply replace the screw. Anyone use this?
Apart from anti-seizing all bolts that would be that.
So guys as ever I am left with a couple of Q's following the job which I thought would be nice to discuss :)
1. As above is there a piston pusher-inner tool?
2. Also as above, is there a tool to get that stripped allen bolt out?
3. Following me putting everything back together there is a bit of movement from the caliper which goes side to side. It's very minimal movement but I didn't notice it when I started but I'm thinking that's possible as it was all rusted up. All bolts are tightened well.
4. I didn't see the pad spring/tab thingy. Does this have one?
Cheers all. Hope you like my updates :):):)
-
1. http://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Duty-Disc-Brake-Caliper-Spreader/dp/B007I804IU/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1332851123&sr=1-3 (http://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Duty-Disc-Brake-Caliper-Spreader/dp/B007I804IU/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1332851123&sr=1-3)
Well worth investing in if this is a job you're going to be doing again. Frees up a hand and makes it less likely to slip and damage a seal.
2. An impact driver with a torx or allen socket might be good. Sometimes, the next size up torx tool will hammer in and afford some purchase on what's left of the head. Failing that, drill the head off and remove the disk. You'll probably find the rest of the bolt unscrews easily once the tension is off. Some plus gas helps too.
3. Probably the caliper moving on then pins, which is normal.
-
Sweeeeet, cheers mate. I'll definitely purchase that.
I will also try hammering in that bigger sized allen key. didnt want to do it in case i nackered something but i did think that ;)
cheers mate
-
And if the old pads are sitting tight within the caliper, I use one of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-AK712-Disc-Brake-Pad-Puller-Tool-/400142138413?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D260968511927%26ps%3D54#ht_2204wt_1042
HTH :y
-
mine are same, allan bolt stuck. was going to take discs off to see if i could get them skimmed. i will have to drill it
-
It's worth mentioning that the countersunk bolt that holds the disk on is really only there to stop the disk falling off when you take the wheel off. Once the wheel is on the wheel nuts clamp the wheel, disk and hub together tightly. It doesn't, therefore, need to be any more than hand tight, and problems removing them are normally down to overtightening. When replacing it, a dab of grease on the thread will help it come out easily in future.
-
the prat b4 me did it up as tight as a virgins minge and it would not budge and i have now rounded off the allan bolt
-
I should have added that I also would have used brake cleaner on the mount (if I was to do the job for real) and that I pumped the brake pedal up.
Brake pedal still goes quite far down. do you erckon its worth actually getting some paste (silicone and antiseize) that would fix that as I know I did take some of the paste off one of the slide pins when i was inspecting it and it wasnt sliding as well when it went back in :)
-
Copperslip works well on everything, small wipe on anything that moves or un does/tighten except the 2 13mm bolts on caliper-sliders u dont want them undoing when driving!! copper back of pads & piston face even if you got anti squeel shims copper them all up but not too much as you dont want to get any on pad faces..!!
a small chistle on the allen bolt hit it flat across middle making it into a flat drive for a large screwdriver or 13mm drill bit & drill head off! dont need it as wheel holds it all on anyway!
-
Cheers all,
so copperslip is the stuff i need for the slide pins too?
-
Had similar issue recently with the disc bolt on another car. Impact driver managed to remove it, even though to look at the damaged bolt you'd think it would have to be drilled off.
Impressed I was. It even had a centre punch mark where the previous donkey had agro removing it. Then promptly did it up tight again on re fitting. The donkey.
Impact driver. Recommended IMO. :)
-
Don't start with copper slip btw. FFS!
-
Cheers all,
so copperslip is the stuff i need for the slide pins too?
I would use a normal lithium grease, TBH. The particles of copper might well cause the pins to seize.
Copperslip has a tendency to dry out, I find, so I'd only use it on the backs of pads. Even then, normal grease will work as well.
-
Cheers all,
so copperslip is the stuff i need for the slide pins too?
I would use a normal lithium grease, TBH. The particles of copper might well cause the pins to seize.
Copperslip has a tendency to dry out, I find, so I'd only use it on the backs of pads. Even then, normal grease will work as well.
That's why it was suggested to use silicone on the slide pins (as it doesn't dry out) and antiseize on the pads, screws etc.
-
Use proper heat resistant lithium grease on slider pins. Do not use copper slip.
Shouldn't need attention unless seized or boot split though.
Copper slip stopping brake squeal is a mith. Therefor it has no place on braking systems. Ever!
Now, wheres that Andy B ;D
-
Ok,
so lithium grease on slider pins and normal grease on everything else?
can i get these two things at hellfrauds?
-
Ok,
so lithium grease on slider pins and normal grease on everything else?
can i get these two things at hellfrauds?
Lithium grease will be fine pretty much everywhere you need grease with one or two exceptions. No need to have anything else, IMHO.
Enough to last a lifetime for £6.99:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_172551_langId_-1_categoryId_165705 (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_172551_langId_-1_categoryId_165705)
-
.. but apply it sparingly when working on brake components, and make sure it doesn't get on the surface of the disk or the friction material on the pads.
Once the disk is fitted spray it with some brake cleaner and wipe it thoroughly with a clean rag to ensure any greasy fingerprints are removed.
-
Perfect!!!! Thanks chaps ;)
-
.... now to source a 9mm wrench ::) ;D
-
Cheers all,
so copperslip is the stuff i need for the slide pins too?
I would use a normal lithium grease, TBH. The particles of copper might well cause the pins to seize.
Copperslip has a tendency to dry out, I find, so I'd only use it on the backs of pads. Even then, normal grease will work as well.
I was going to use Castrol high temp grease on sliders. Is that OK. Don't want to use coppergrease, as heard it has little lubrication
-
Ok,
so lithium grease on slider pins and normal grease on everything else?
can i get these two things at hellfrauds?
Lithium grease will be fine pretty much everywhere you need grease with one or two exceptions. No need to have anything else, IMHO.
Enough to last a lifetime for £6.99:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_172551_langId_-1_categoryId_165705 (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_172551_langId_-1_categoryId_165705)
Ignore my previous question as that is the stuff I was going to use. Does it go off? Been in the shed for probably 15 years
-
Webby - found over the years that a suitably sized G-clamp with a couple of small wooden blocks ideal for pushing caliper pistons back in - used this method on my Omegas no probs
Have always used copperslip sparingly on backs of new pads and on other pad metal contact areas
On Omega caliper slides I've used Lithium based grease.
HTH :y
-
Webby - found over the years that a suitably sized G-clamp with a couple of small wooden blocks ideal for pushing caliper pistons back in - used this method on my Omegas no probs
Yep. This works well with floating single piston calipers but I find a spreader tool better with double acting calipers such as the Omega rears. :y
-
Cheers guys.
are these vice grips any good for pinching the brake hose?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vise-Grip-01-10R-Visegrip-Locking/dp/B00004YO5K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332867917&sr=8-1
i know you guys said you dont do it but if theres a possibility of destroying the master cylinder then for the sake of a few quid i'd rather protect it. :)
-
I never bother with the set screw that come with discs, nothing more than an added pain in the arse next time round
-
I do remember thinking that when I started Ralf up a little while ago (and although ran badly) the brakes were not good. now bearing in mind discs and pads are all good i'm wondering if the brakes need bleeding. if so is this how to do it....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf1iPbeg778
-
Look here http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90520.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90520.0) - Omega specific ;)
-
I do remember thinking that when I started Ralf up a little while ago (and although ran badly) the brakes were not good. now bearing in mind discs and pads are all good i'm wondering if the brakes need bleeding. if so is this how to do it....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf1iPbeg778
they where good when it left here didnt have to push hard to stop so dont know what happent to them :y :y :y :y
-
Good stuff Webby, it's a good feeling knowing the job has been done right and taken care with. Money saved on labour can buy you better tools :y
-
Firstly, it'll need a couple of pumps on the pedal to pump the pistons out to meet the pads, moreso if worn pads have been refitted.
The pedal doesn't completely sort itself out until the car's done a few miles and the brakes have been heat cycled, IME.
If the fluid hasn't been changed within the last 2 years, or the fluid in the reservoir is dark coloured or has black deposits in it, it's worth changing the fluid anyway, but old fluid wouldn't be my first guess as a cause of a long pedal after work carried out, except when it occurs with a bit of heat in the system.
There are a couple of types of "long pedal". Try to identify which one you have:
1) Pedal travels down further than normal but then firms up to "normal" resistance, just lower than normal.
2) Pedal travels down further than normal and is just spongey, never really firms up.
3) Pedal "creeps" down when pressed for a few seconds, recovers after a few quick pumps.
1 is caused by pads that haven't bedded in yet following removal or replacement, can also be caused by a faulty self-adjuster (not fitted on the omega) or a failed bearing or warped disk causing the pads to "stand off". May be caused by one circuit having failed completely, but there'll be an obvious catastrophic leak then. If you consider the brakes are safe to drive on, it's worth seeing if it improves once the pads have bedded in.
2 is generally caused by a system that has air in it and needs bleeding or possibly a rubber pipe that's perished and bulging under pressure. If it happens suddenly when the brakes are hot, brake fluid contaminated with water or just plain old.
3 is generally caused by a poor seal somewhere in the system. If it's a slave cylinder or pipe connection a leak will probably be evident, although you might need to peer under the rubber dust cover to see it on a brake caliper. It can also be caused by a piston seal in the master cylinder in which case there'll be no leakage. On an Omega the master cylinder seals have been known to invert if a bleed nipple is not opened prior to winding pack the caliper pistons, giving similar symptoms.
-
Cheers guys,
thanks Kev.... defo no. 2 :y :y :y
i've ot my college interview/advice session tomorrow at 9am..... afterwards going to employ the services of mummy webb for the brake bleed :y
-
Hi guys,
Once again I'd like to point out I'm not bumping this thread.... just i have a question (sorry)
i didnt have time to do the rear brakes yesterday so instead i decided to re-practise front pads and hopefully get this bleeding disc off. all went great and i have to say that piston spreader worked beautifully!!! however i still cant get this disc off. i tried getting a slightly oversized allen in there. nope. hamered a screw driver in. it started to move the disc but then lost grip and just span.
what bit can i get for my drill for this? and what angle should i comje in at? i.e. straight through the middle or from the sides? its coming out tomorrow whether it likes it or not even if i have to get nasty with it!!!!!
-
.....
what bit can i get for my drill for this? and what angle should i comje in at? i.e. straight through the middle or from the sides? its coming out tomorrow whether it likes it or not even if i have to get nasty with it!!!!!
It's held with a M6 thread, so if you use a 6mm drill through the middle of where your allen key should've gone & drill carefully until you JUST drill the head off. There should then still be enough thread sticking out of the hub for you to get a decent set of molegrips/visegrips on. :y
-
.....
what bit can i get for my drill for this? and what angle should i comje in at? i.e. straight through the middle or from the sides? its coming out tomorrow whether it likes it or not even if i have to get nasty with it!!!!!
It's held with a M6 thread, so if you use a 6mm drill through the middle of where your allen key should've gone & drill carefully until you JUST drill the head off. There should then still be enough thread sticking out of the hub for you to get a decent set of molegrips/visegrips on. :y
B E A Youtiful!!!! Cheers Andy B..... Metal bit i presume? :)
-
Try a punch and hammer ;)
-
Try a punch and hammer ;)
i want to get nasty with it. im going to break out my hammer drill :)
-
Try a punch and hammer ;)
i want to get nasty with it. im going to break out my hammer drill :)
Don't use a hammer drill on metal ;) Low speed is best :y
-
Try a punch and hammer ;)
i want to get nasty with it. im going to break out my hammer drill :)
Don't use a hammer drill on metal ;) Low speed is best :y
ok mate ill use the cordless. but if it dont go well i get a feeling ill be stressing and ripping it to pieces lol
-
........ Metal bit i presume? :)
yes, a normal HSS (high speed steel) drill :y
Try Pete's method first though. Centre pop at the side of the head & try to punch it undone. ;)
-
Right, went home after work.
drilled this disc allan bolt. did it make a difference? nope :'(
im not even fekin kidding tools went flying and i stormed away from the car in a huff >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
dont know where to go from here. anyone in the northampton locality want to come up and show me how to get this fekking thing off? obviously ill cover your costs :y
-
Right, went home after work.
drilled this disc allan bolt. did it make a difference? nope :'(
im not even fekin kidding tools went flying and i stormed away from the car in a huff >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
dont know where to go from here. anyone in the northampton locality want to come up and show me how to get this fekking thing off? obviously ill cover your costs :y
;D :-X
Did you try the hammer and punch , thats what i end up using ...didnt help as someone had used locktight on em before ::)
-
Right, went home after work.
drilled this disc allan bolt. did it make a difference? nope :'(
im not even fekin kidding tools went flying and i stormed away from the car in a huff >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
dont know where to go from here. anyone in the northampton locality want to come up and show me how to get this fekking thing off? obviously ill cover your costs :y
;D :-X
Did you try the hammer and punch , thats what i end up using ...didnt help as someone had used locktight on em before ::)
lol seriously if you were my neighbour lookin out your window at the time hahaha i started chucking sockets, torx screws and ive pretty much launched the whole little red tub of bits somewhere irretreivable ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
no i didnt but what difference is a hammer and hand tool going to make if i cant get a drill to do the job :'( :'( :'( :'(
-
Right, went home after work.
drilled this disc allan bolt. did it make a difference? nope :'(
im not even fekin kidding tools went flying and i stormed away from the car in a huff >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
dont know where to go from here. anyone in the northampton locality want to come up and show me how to get this fekking thing off? obviously ill cover your costs :y
;D :-X
Did you try the hammer and punch , thats what i end up using ...didnt help as someone had used locktight on em before ::)
lol seriously if you were my neighbour lookin out your window at the time hahaha i started chucking sockets, torx screws and ive pretty much launched the whole little red tub of bits somewhere irretreivable ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
no i didnt but what difference is a hammer and hand tool going to make if i cant get a drill to do the job :'( :'( :'( :'(
:o :o :o
I know mine were a pita to get undone , but i tap tapped at it for quite some time till it moved ...soaked it overnight in release agent which helped :)
-
anyone in the northampton locality want to come up and show me how to get this fekking thing off? obviously ill cover your costs :y
Until these retarded quacks can repair me, I'm not available >:(
Beginning to piss me off, sat around with my thumbs up my arse >:(
-
anyone in the northampton locality want to come up and show me how to get this fekking thing off? obviously ill cover your costs :y
Until these retarded quacks can repair me, I'm not available >:(
Beginning to piss me off, sat around with my thumbs up my arse >:(
nice! :D ;D
-
This fekker is finally out!!!!! thanks to every one who helped! :y brought the 4 piece halfrauds punch set. £6.99. did the job!
started with a centre punch straight doon the middle to shock any remaining rust off't threads. then used the pin punch to try and make a hole at the side to get some purchase on. didnt really work so i broke out the cold chisel in the set. 6 cracks at different angles with the hammer, screwdriver in. unscrewed! job done!! :y
couple of quick things..... as you can see from the pic there are metal shards. they got all over the disc and on the pad fronts. obviously i got the crap off with a rag and tissues but if there are micro particles would it be best to hit disc with brake cleaner?
how do i ensure its all off the pad material?
finally the slide pins. before, i took the old grease off and regreased up. fine. however the ''boot'' doesnt seem to slide back on its own. when the pin is pressed in it will slowly slide out but the boot will stay all crinkled up. is this a problem? i cant see it being a problem bearing in mind the boot is proper squished anyway when the caliper is done up tight but thought i'd ask :y
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/IMG078.jpg)
-
Is that rusty ralf :-\
Use a bit of wet and dry if shards are protruding then brush off excess followed by brake cleaner ;)
-
Is that rusty ralf :-\
Use a bit of wet and dry if shards are protruding then brush off excess followed by brake cleaner ;)
lol yep, thats ralf.... his discs are rusty cos he aint been moved in ages.... he will be though.... eventually
nice one mate....
anyone know what to do with stuff on the brake pads? there dont appear to be anything on there but i presume all micro particals have to be removed to.
-
Is that rusty ralf :-\
Use a bit of wet and dry if shards are protruding then brush off excess followed by brake cleaner ;)
lol yep, thats ralf.... his discs are rusty cos he aint been moved in ages.... he will be though.... eventually
nice one mate....
anyone know what to do with stuff on the brake pads? there dont appear to be anything on there but i presume all micro particals have to be removed to.
Particles not too critical, a wipe with a clean rag or brush will do fine. Don't let them get contaminated with any oil, grease or brake fluid, though.
-
Is that rusty ralf :-\
Use a bit of wet and dry if shards are protruding then brush off excess followed by brake cleaner ;)
lol yep, thats ralf.... his discs are rusty cos he aint been moved in ages.... he will be though.... eventually
nice one mate....
anyone know what to do with stuff on the brake pads? there dont appear to be anything on there but i presume all micro particals have to be removed to.
Particles not too critical, a wipe with a clean rag or brush will do fine. Don't let them get contaminated with any oil, grease or brake fluid, though.
perfect, thanks kevin. one final thing.... is it usual the slide pin boot doesnt move much? the pins slide real easy by hand but not on their own
-
perfect, thanks kevin. one final thing.... is it usual the slide pin boot doesnt move much? the pins slide real easy by hand but not on their own
Not sure what you mean. I guess we're talkign about the pins that support the front floating calipers? They should slide freely without feeling like they are liable to bind, as this will cause uneven pad wear and other issues, but the total movement is probably only 10mm or so. They only have to move as much as the inner pad has material to wear. ;)
-
perfect, thanks kevin. one final thing.... is it usual the slide pin boot doesnt move much? the pins slide real easy by hand but not on their own
Not sure what you mean. I guess we're talkign about the pins that support the front floating calipers? They should slide freely without feeling like they are liable to bind, as this will cause uneven pad wear and other issues, but the total movement is probably only 10mm or so. They only have to move as much as the inner pad has material to wear. ;)
Sorry kev, thats right the two pins that come out. i suppose what i mean is... how much ''springyness'' should i get from the slide pins. as said they slide easy if i physically ''excercise'' them by pushing them in and out but if i push them right in (as far as the rubber dust boot will allow) they tend to very slowly withdraw.... ill try and get a photo of what i mean :)
-
OK. It's just the dust cover or trapped air behind them causing them to push back out. Nothing to worry about. There is no need for them to be springy at all. Once the caliper is bolted on it is located by the forces exerted by the pads on the disk. :y
-
OK. It's just the dust cover or trapped air behind them causing them to push back out. Nothing to worry about. There is no need for them to be springy at all. Once the caliper is bolted on it is located by the forces exerted by the pads on the disk. :y
perfect thanks mate. i took out the slide pins and really pressed the boot hard and a bit of air came out but still not springy.
i shan't worry about it now ;)
cheers bro
-
i promise this will be my final Q on this subject.....
if i accidentally got dirt in the two lengths that hold the slide pins is there anythuing that can be done??? or would i have to resign myself to buying a new caliper mount and slide pins?
-
i promise this will be my final Q on this subject.....
if i accidentally got dirt in the two lengths that hold the slide pins is there anythuing that can be done??? or would i have to resign myself to buying a new caliper mount and slide pins?
Just clean them out with brake cleaner and regrease and it will be fine.
lee
-
Due to fact they rust badly, give them a good scrub with a wire brush :y
-
Cheers all. really very much appreciated.
right.... rear brakes from tomorrow :y :y :y :y
-
ps,the prize.... ;) refuse to be beaten by a friggin screw ;D
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/IMG088.jpg)
-
Cheers all. really very much appreciated.
right.... rear brakes from tomorrow :y :y :y :y
Have the swear box ready :-X :) ;)
Quite easy doing the back ones once you get the hang of it , adjusting the handbrake shoes i found a pita esp locating the adjuster to slacken the shoes off poking about in the small hole ::)
Plenty of breaks and deep breaths 8) Well done :y
-
Cheers Steve, I will do :y
if theyre a pita i may leave it til saturday when i can give it my full attention. :y
-
Cheers Steve, I will do :y
if theyre a pita i may leave it til saturday when i can give it my full attention. :y
Had a shock for a second and thought you were going to say ill leave it for you to do :o ;D
Same with everything , once you have done it a few times its quite easy ...good luck :)
-
Cheers Steve, I will do :y
if theyre a pita i may leave it til saturday when i can give it my full attention. :y
Had a shock for a second and thought you were going to say ill leave it for you to do :o ;D
Same with everything , once you have done it a few times its quite easy ...good luck :)
if they give me the hassle that disc screw did i wa\nt you on speed dial ;D
-
;D Im just glad i can drive mine now , no greasy hands for 2 wks . Bodywork needs doing ::) rough round the edges but all solid enough , ongoing problem on an older mig thats not been looked after in its past >:(
Doing the jobs just as you have done to give it a new lease of life with the help of oofer's ;)