Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: doz on 07 January 2013, 16:41:54
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Can anybody put me in touch with a good firm down south please? I've got an old kit I stripped out of an old Omega but what I want to do is replace all of it bar the tank with something like this.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAG-300-6-ISA2-250-HP-FRONT-KIT-LPG-AUTOGAS-SEQUENTIAL-6-CYLINDERS-CONVERSION-/200829181530?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ec25a1e5a (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAG-300-6-ISA2-250-HP-FRONT-KIT-LPG-AUTOGAS-SEQUENTIAL-6-CYLINDERS-CONVERSION-/200829181530?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ec25a1e5a)
However I'm not currently up to fitting it myself. Also need the certificate.
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Can anybody put me in touch with a good firm down south please? I've got an old kit I stripped out of an old Omega but what I want to do is replace all of it bar the tank with something like this.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAG-300-6-ISA2-250-HP-FRONT-KIT-LPG-AUTOGAS-SEQUENTIAL-6-CYLINDERS-CONVERSION-/200829181530?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ec25a1e5a (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAG-300-6-ISA2-250-HP-FRONT-KIT-LPG-AUTOGAS-SEQUENTIAL-6-CYLINDERS-CONVERSION-/200829181530?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ec25a1e5a)
However I'm not currently up to fitting it myself. Also need the certificate.
Not sure if this is too far ... Winchester area ??? They are the guys who did my conversion, although the guy who ran the place then has now left I believe, so I have no recent knowledge of their proficiency :)
http://www.amsautogas.com/contact.htm
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Is the tank under 10 years old? If not, it won't get certified as they must be inspected every 10 years. The cost for this is so great it is cheaper to replace with new ::)
As for the kit, which seems quite expensive for a kit with Red Valtek injectors (not very good injectors) BTW, especially once you have purchased the required pipework. You'll struggle to find a registered installer who will install something you have supplied ;) If you can't go DIY, which isn't that hard, then you're better to shop around for a kit supplied and fitted ;)
Not sure how things stand (Back and hospital appointments) currently, otherwise I might have been able to lend a hand ::)
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Tank no good over ten years so that's that idea down the tubes. Just been quoted 1600 quid!! for a BRC (could be wrong). Looks like I'll have to sell the car and by a POS to run around in.
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Tank no good over ten years so that's that idea down the tubes. Just been quoted 1600 quid!! for a BRC (could be wrong). Looks like I'll have to sell the car and by a POS to run around in.
You could DIY convert it for sub £750 including an inspection ;) It's not a particularly challenging job if you take your time ;)
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I can't find any firm locally who will certificate a home install.
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I can't find any firm locally who will certificate a home install.
I'm sure there's a place near Chichester (Arun Autogas?) that will do it... Not exactly on your doorstep but not too far :y
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I'm gonna have to buy a kit and then get it certificated or the land barge will have to go. Best place to buy a system?
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I'm gonna have to buy a kit and then get it certificated or the land barge will have to go. Best place to buy a system?
Give me a few days to make some enquiries from the supplier I negotiated rates with previously. I know he's no longer affiliated with AC Stag but he did say he had another, similar kit he could supply that was potentially a little cheaper :y
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Your da man!!! Have you got some one who can do the certificate as well? Do you have a rough idea of cost?
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Your da man!!! Have you got some one who can do the certificate as well? Do you have a rough idea of cost?
I know Chrisgixer has a (slightly fussy) inspector near him that will do it :y
As for cost... As above, I'd expect it to be sub £750 including the inspection and registration :y
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I'll have your babies if you can get it for that sort of money. A hand doing it would be nice. I'd bring beer, Curry vouchers and coinage
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I'll have your babies if you can get it for that sort of money. A hand doing it would be nice. I'd bring beer, Curry vouchers and coinage
Daaaaaad.... A strange man is offering to have my babies on the internet! :o :o ;D ;D
And he's trying to bribe me with curry!!! :o :o :o :y :y
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Better than a sweetie :-*
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I'll have your babies if you can get it for that sort of money. A hand doing it would be nice. I'd bring beer, Curry vouchers and coinage
Sounds like one of those weird parties you hear about!
Well ...... erm ....... I mean ............ :-X
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Here's one wot I bought...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LPG-GPL-autogas-SGI-kit-Stag-300-plus-/300447974292 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LPG-GPL-autogas-SGI-kit-Stag-300-plus-/300447974292) :y
Tank and odds and end from Tinley Tech :y
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I'll have your babies if you can get it for that sort of money. A hand doing it would be nice. I'd bring beer, Curry vouchers and coinage
Daaaaaad.... A strange man is offering to have my babies on the internet! :o :o ;D ;D
And he's trying to bribe me with curry!!! :o :o :o :y :y
;D ;D ;D
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Thanks for that info. Anybody else got some ideas? Also Lazydocker has a bad back and won't be up to playing with me (snigger) anybody else down south who can help me? I promise to wear more than just my speedos??
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I have used arun autogas a couple of times and can recommend them highly, quite willing to help with the right incentives cough cough. ::)
They are located just off the A259 NR Arundel.
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Be glad to help subject to being a bit organised :y
Give Guffer a shout as well. He has lpg experience too :y
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I might be able to lend a hand, just can't do anything too physical ;)
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http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=110809.0
http://www.bpvservicing.co.uk/
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Indeed Chris, I thought Cliffo had sold it last time it was advertised.
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Chris is BPV the place which will certificate a home install?
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Have Pm'd cliffo. It states the brass jets are missing. I have here a manifold with the brass jets fitted but for the life of me can't remember what size engine it came off. What size jets would I need for the 3lt?
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Have Pm'd cliffo. It states the brass jets are missing. I have here a manifold with the brass jets fitted but for the life of me can't remember what size engine it came off. What size jets would I need for the 3lt?
That end of the jets is (normally) "open"... It's the other end that you drill out to size ;)
Oh... And you have a message. I have spoken with the supplier and the PM explains in detail :y
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Right guys.
I have been offered the following. A Stag 300 ISA system complete with 80 litre tank for 750. Then I have to fit it myself and I can then return to supplier with a dry system and he will Cert, register and do the complete set up for 200. This brings it back in line with what I wanted to spend. So questions. Is this a good kit? Is the cert and set up fee fair? If I fit this are you lot only gonna help if I wear a Mankini? :-[ :-[
Forgot to ask doing it this way I get full support and warranty
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Right, £200 seems a lot for inspection and registration but that depends how good a job they will do with the setup ;)
You need to check what Vaporiser/Reducer and which injectors they supply too.
As for the cost... I think it's all a bit more than I would expect to pay but if you are happy with it then that is all that matters ;)
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Chris is BPV the place which will certificate a home install?
if its up to scratch, yes. Although there is no certificate as such these days. You get a receipt, and the car reg is entered onto a database. Your insurer then looks up your reg on said database as proof of "certification" if you see what I mean. ;)
Should add, last time I was there they charge £50 an hour, and the examination took two hours. This unclouded under car checks of fuel lines and routing, make sure it outboard of the rear subframe, and at least 12 inches from a heat source, or fit heat shield which hasn't been needed yet afaik. Plus they plug in tech 2 to check fuel trims, examine and note tank age size and make, that injectors and vap are solidly mounted.
They will not allow short cuts, and I don't blame them, and that's why I use them.
But as with any tester, you'll need to teach an understanding with them. Firstly that you are prepared to heed their advice, make changes, and re present when rectified if needed. They will also take the piss a bit if they feel your doing the same and trying to pull the wool over their eyes.
They also want to see that you understand the install to an extent, so it's best not to mess about.
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Thanks Chris. Been down to a dealer today. He had a Omega they had done. He let me have a good look over it. He's happy to do cert and reg, also he's going to do the set up etc. Waiting for confirmed prices now.
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I am based in Yeovil and there is a company here who carted mine for @£135.
My convertion cost 700 back in 2008 I did it myself with a few oofers in a weekend.
I am clued up with the code and i'm happy to help if I'm down here working and not home. Although I won't drill your manifolds sorry.
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I already have a drilled manifold but I'm not convinced on the jet position. I will have a look. Cheers for the offer of help Marie. Just had a look at the old LPG kit I have here. Jet size is 2.7mm which is to big. How it ran on a 2.5L I'll never know. I have been suggested 2.5mm for the 3.0L engine.
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Post a pic of nozzle position. :y
The drllable jets are the ones that screw into the injectors. ;)
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That is the ones in the solenoid bodies!!!!!
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Does anybody know the hole cutter size I need to fit the gas cap in the the quarter panel?
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I already have a drilled manifold but I'm not convinced on the jet position. I will have a look. Cheers for the offer of help Marie. Just had a look at the old LPG kit I have here. Jet size is 2.7mm which is to big. How it ran on a 2.5L I'll never know. I have been suggested 2.5mm for the 3.0L engine.
Two different things, yes? :) the drillable nozzles (2.3mm on a Kme vap btw) in the injector blocks.
And the manifold nozzles highlighted above, post a pic of these? (Or have I fuddled things? :-\ )
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I thought yours were 2.2mm gayboy? I was looking at going a shade smaller, and increasing a tad if necessary. Need to persuade CrippleArse to attend a local Oxford meet before I mess with it. He told me off last time I broke it ;D
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Thanks Chris. Been down to a dealer today. He had a Omega they had done. He let me have a good look over it. He's happy to do cert and reg, also he's going to do the set up etc. Waiting for confirmed prices now.
That could be interesting ::)
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I thought yours were 2.2mm gayboy? I was looking at going a shade smaller, and increasing a tad if necessary. Need to persuade CrippleArse to attend a local Oxford meet before I mess with it. He told me off last time I broke it ;D
Must come down that way and sample some curry again :-X ::)
I'd be tempted to try starting smaller too... Possibly 2mm and upping the vap pressure a touch :-\ :-\
Need to find a date when SWMBO can stay home and look after the hound though ;) ;)
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Does anybody know the hole cutter size I need to fit the gas cap in the the quarter panel?
70mm IIRC :y
If you have a tow bar then it can be mounted on that ;)
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I already have a drilled manifold but I'm not convinced on the jet position. I will have a look. Cheers for the offer of help Marie. Just had a look at the old LPG kit I have here. Jet size is 2.7mm which is to big. How it ran on a 2.5L I'll never know. I have been suggested 2.5mm for the 3.0L engine.
Ignore any suggestions until you know what vaporiser and injectors you are using... It varies dramatically and could be anything from 2.0-3.0mm ;)
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Agree completely. This measurement was given to me by the dealer to use with the kit and vaporiser they are supplying.
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Agree completely. This measurement was given to me by the dealer to use with the kit and vaporiser they are supplying.
Still take it with a pinch of salt ;) ;) ;)
You really need to get the answer to the questions re vaporiser and injectors before you part with any hard earned cash as we have experienced a kit that should be more than up to the job on paper but had some short comings when fitted ;)
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It's a Stag 300 ASE (letters maybe wrong) kit. I was with the guy when he looked up the jet size from the Stag paperwork so I guess the kit comes with specific parts not just made up of bits.
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It's ISA which I think referes to the ECU more than the other parts.
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I think the firmware update from a couple of years ago updates 300plus to 300 ISA. So what I run on TBE, and what I'll run on the bullet if ever I could be arsed to update the firmware on that ;D
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Aye. I'm looking at injector nozzle sizes. I've gone back to the stag manual I've found on line. As the omega is sequential injection it recommends a size between 2.4 to 2.6 as long as the reducer pressure is 1 bar. God this is getting complicated. :o
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On top of that I've got to work out what water pipe to plumb in to for the vaporiser. Get's a bit complicated because of the 3 way valve we've got fitted. Please don't tell me it's the pipe hidden right round the back of the block...... it is isn't it. Right who's got the smallest hands!!!
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Have a flick through the guides that Kevin Wood wrote for the V6 ;)
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Cheers. Having a look now. I've just worked out my savings. Doing the mileage I do the kit will pay for it's self in 10 months. Very pleased.
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Have a flick through the guides that Kevin Wood wrote for the V6 ;)
There's no guide for the V6 Front End but it's not massively different to the 4 pot ;)It's a Stag 300 ASE (letters maybe wrong) kit. I was with the guy when he looked up the jet size from the Stag paperwork so I guess the kit comes with specific parts not just made up of bits.
Stag paperwork talks a load of 'dangle berries' for some things and the Stag bit refers purely to the ECU ;)
On top of that I've got to work out what water pipe to plumb in to for the vaporiser. Get's a bit complicated because of the 3 way valve we've got fitted. Please don't tell me it's the pipe hidden right round the back of the block...... it is isn't it. Right who's got the smallest hands!!!
Read the guide for the 4 pot :y
You want the "Helter Skelter" pipe that goes from the block to the HBV for the feed :y Search the Gallery Section for "LPG" posts by Kevin Wood, JayW and/or Myself for a few pictures of V6 conversion :y
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Does anybody know the hole cutter size I need to fit the gas cap in the the quarter panel?
70mm IIRC :y
If you have a tow bar then it can be mounted on that ;)
Sorry lazy but it cant if youyou want the can registered with the uklpg. Can't have the filler point anywhere in a crumple zone. The rules changed last year I believe.
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Have you got a link to that info? I've just looked on their web site and can't find any info. Funny thing is the installers I have spoken to over the last few days did mention still mounting it on the tow bar. Problem is where ever you fit the filler will be a crumple zone as it all depends in which direction you were hit. I plan to fit mine behind the petrol filler in the offside quarter panel.
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Does anybody know the hole cutter size I need to fit the gas cap in the the quarter panel?
70mm IIRC :y
If you have a tow bar then it can be mounted on that ;)
Sorry lazy but it cant if youyou want the can registered with the uklpg. Can't have the filler point anywhere in a crumple zone. The rules changed last year I believe.
Sounds like you had a fussy inspector Marie... Mine passed fine and many, many "Professionals" are utilising the tow bar ;)
I'd not heard of an update to COP 11 TBH.
Doz, PM me an email address and I'll email you a copy of COP 11 (although it's several years old). Most of it is common sense really :y
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Have you got a link to that info? I've just looked on their web site and can't find any info. Funny thing is the installers I have spoken to over the last few days did mention still mounting it on the tow bar. Problem is where ever you fit the filler will be a crumple zone as it all depends in which direction you were hit. I plan to fit mine behind the petrol filler in the offside quarter panel.
That's what I was thinking. Would have preferred the bumper so as to maintain the cubby hole in the boot, but that seems like a lot of work! I have a removeable tow bar too, so that option is out anyway.
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Does anybody know the hole cutter size I need to fit the gas cap in the the quarter panel?
70mm IIRC :y
If you have a tow bar then it can be mounted on that ;)
Sorry lazy but it cant if youyou want the can registered with the uklpg. Can't have the filler point anywhere in a crumple zone. The rules changed last year I believe.
Sounds like you had a fussy inspector Marie... Mine passed fine and many, many "Professionals" are utilising the tow bar ;)
I'd not heard of an update to COP 11 TBH.
Doz, PM me an email address and I'll email you a copy of COP 11 (although it's several years old). Most of it is common sense really :y
Your not planning on sending me some disturbing pictures are you?
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Regardless of the "legality" of using the towbar under COP11 .. a quick thought ....
If you have a towbar fitted, then the assumption is that you will use it to tow something ..... I have seen a few folks towing have serious problems getting the LPG nozzle to attach correctly when the filler is on the towbar and they have a trailer connected, especially those trailers (caravans) that have the larger ALKO or WINTERHOFF hitches with the built in stabilisers.
Just a wee thought ... I have no problems as my filler is on the offside wing just behind the petrol filler :)
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Take a look at this inlet fannymould on the Pit. Do the jets look in the right place?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170968610815?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170968610815?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)
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There was a time when Kevin was doing a "swap" of drilled manifolds ... he provided a drilled one, you gave him your old one which he then prepped for the next conversion ... don't know if he still does that ??
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I have PM'd Kev but no answer yet. Just trying to keep all bases covered
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There was a time when Kevin was doing a "swap" of drilled manifolds ... he provided a drilled one, you gave him your old one which he then prepped for the next conversion ... don't know if he still does that ??
Think it's still possible but he's not sure if he has any 'spare' manifolds at the minute :)
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I've been offered a couple of manifolds on here. If Kev has run out I'll try and get the member to post it straight to Kev.
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Another part of the puzzle solved :y
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That's if Kev still does it.
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Right. Operation "bung it on gas" is on. Kev has agreed to do the fannymould. I have decided on buying the new kit. I've spoken to Cliff and explained my reasons before posting on here. So it's all systems go. You lot are doomed I tell ya DOOOOOMED!!!!!
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I'll be expecting a blow by blow account then. on top of the guides :y
With any luck it'll be my turn in the future (not too distant I hope :-X)
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This is turning in to a mare. Im getting messed around for the lpg kit. I've lost faith with the firm. So I've contacted another firm who will cert it but im going to source the kit from else where.
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This is turning in to a mare. Im getting messed around for the lpg kit. I've lost faith with the firm. So I've contacted another firm who will cert it but im going to source the kit from else where.
Unfortunately, with the exception of Tinley Tech, it seems to be standard for the industry >:(
Tinley's support and customer service has been, from my experiences, superb :y But they charge a premium for that service, understandably ;)
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Im going to try and buy Cliff's set up and then a tank from Tinley. However apart from the size I am unsure of what tank to buy. I don't understand this 4 port, 1 port thing
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Simple. Get a 4 hole. It's all you need to know.
(Single hole need a multivalve to deal with 4 holes in one, these are just one more thing to go wrong, certainly the multivalve in my upright spare wheel well tank was fairly hopeless, as it turns out)
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As Chris says, I'd recommend 4-hole every time ;)
That said, if you wanted to save £50 or so you could go with a single hole as long as you get a good quality, high flow multivalve ;)
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The old tank I have is 4 port. Guess I can reuse the old valve etc on the new tank. Or are they system specific
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Doz, don't know if this is any use
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LPG-GPL-autogas-SGI-kit-Stag-300-plus-/300447974292?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item45f4184394 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LPG-GPL-autogas-SGI-kit-Stag-300-plus-/300447974292?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item45f4184394)
Had no issues with them. They forgot the reducer temp sender, but sent one straight out when I rang them. The rest of the kit I bought from Tinley Tech. As Lazydocker has said, they're not cheap, but they know their onions, and are readily contactable and very helpful :y
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Right. I've brought Cliff's front end kit. So now I need to get the tank. I also need to get the pipe front to rear and the filler for the wing. I need some more help guys. I've seen the the stuff I want from Tinley but have different sizes of stuff. I need to know what size pipe to run from front to rear? is it 6 or 8mm for the 3.0lt engines? The vapouriser or reducer (what ever you want to call it) is a KME gold if that makes a difference back to front the pipe required. I also need to buy the 6 brass nozzles which go in to the inlet manifold. Now I was under the impression these were just open ended nozzles with the actual jets being in the base of the solenoids. However Cliff seems to think he drilled the 2.5mm jets and fitted them to inlet manifold and has not touched the solenoid end. So does it matter which way round you do it? or are both ends meant to be drilled? I've got the old kit I took off an omega here. It maybe a bit pants but I think it will give up a few parts that I may need.
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Run 8mm polyflex. Wait until you get the kit from Cliff as it might be in it (normally there's enough in the kit for a fill pipe and front to rear pipe :y)
Brass nozzles... Easy enough to source... Tinley do them top of this page (http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/acatalog/Bigas_SGIS-N_Components.html) :y
We'll talk properly tomorrow :y
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Pipe is 8 mm!!! Will talk to Tinley tomorrow and order tank (90 L) and pipe. The pipe was fitted to Cliff's car which got scrapped. Also need to order the hose from the inlet nozzles back to the solenoids. I can't thank you guys enough and I have to say a very very special thank you to Cliff. He has been on the phone for ages describing everything so I have a good idea what's turning up. A very sound gentleman :y :y
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Pipe is 8 mm!!! Will talk to Tinley tomorrow and order tank (90 L) and pipe. The pipe was fitted to Cliff's car which got scrapped. Also need to order the hose from the inlet nozzles back to the solenoids. I can't thank you guys enough and I have to say a very very special thank you to Cliff. He has been on the phone for ages describing everything so I have a good idea what's turning up. A very sound gentleman :y :y
That he is! We had some long, late night conversations when he was working through his!
I'd advise against ordering anything until we talk tomorrow so we can (hopefully) make sure you only order what you need but get it all in one order ;)
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Ok. I've got Taxi Al turning for a brew tomorrow night as well. As they say two heads are better than one...... you see mine don't count it's just a pot for holding a vacuum :-[ :-[ :-[
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You can call me during the day if you get chance :y
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Cheers. Just been totting up the tank etc. GULP!!
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Cheers. Just been totting up the tank etc. GULP!!
Try FES too... You'll have to call them though ;)
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Who's Fes? I thought was just some kinda hat :-\
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Who's Fes? I thought was just some kinda hat :-\
FES Autogas ;) Main importer for one of the tank manufacturers :y
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Here's what I think my Tinley shopping list comes to. I've been generous on some of the pipe lengths
Tank. 211.10 90 Litre
injector hose 4.80 (2 metres)
clips 1.20 injector hose clips
Manifold nozzles. 16.32(2 X 4)
main pipe 22.94 (10 metres)8 mm poly pipe
pipe clips 6.48 (2 X 10) for poly pipe
Level Sender 12.54
Filler 24.00 90 Degree 70 mm hole.
Filler boot 3.78 Fer fek's sake
Filler hose 16.01
VAT @20% 63.84
Total 383.84
The only parts I can see I can use from my old set up are. Level sender and filler hose. Which in the grand scheme of things isn't a lot. I haven't listed the pipe fittings. Cliff said there was some in the kit but until I get it won't know if I need anymore.
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Speak with Tinley before ordering (if ordering from them) and they'll put the kit together ;)
Be warned that the 90L tank is a bit of a fiddle to get in... Ideally you need to drop the Bose shelf out ;) The 80 is much easier ;)
Oh... And I didn't see a tank frame on the list ;) I'd wait for the parcel from Cliff and then you know what you need to order :y
And 10m is way more poly pipe than you need! But you need to order the ends for it too
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I'll use my old frame. It's from 400 dia tank which is the same as the new one. I'll also be re-using the hose which the main feed goes through. I know I know. Cheapskate
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if you are going to have the agg of fitting a 90 litre tank,then you might as well go the whole hog and throw a 100litre in there. :y
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Going by the tank measurements its not much bigger than my old 70 litre. Diameter is the same just slightly longer. If I went for the 100 it would be almost touching the shock towers. Doing it this way will leave a couple of inches at the ends. Of course i could of buggered the measurements up
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Is it really worth all the extra hassle over 10 litrs ?? you only actually get 8 litres extra LPG (80% rule) which is 1.76 galls .. at an average of 20 mpg on LPG that is an extra 35 miles/tank .... if you are running that critical should you be on gas anyway ???
Just a thought :)
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what extra hassle?
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The 400mm Dia 90L tank fits (I had one in my saloon ;)) but you have to drop the Bose shelf to be able to mount the frame and then roll the tank in. Not too easy to fix the frame down with the tank already in place ;)
The 400mm dia, 100L tank will fit but, as you say, is hard against the shock turrets and will severely hinder (possibly even prevent) getting the spare wheel in and out ;)
I understand you wish to use a 90L tank so you can recycle the old frame but if it were me I think I'd spend a few quid more (and it isn't an awful lot) and fit a 80L tank (360mm dia) on a new frame ;)
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To late :-[
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To late :-[
Oh dear :-X Just re-read your list and can't see vent hose or "Top Hats" for the same for a start. I hope you spoke with TT and they put you on to a complete rear end (tank) kit ::)
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Pipe and hats I've got. No kit as such but I did tap them up for some discount
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Pipe and hats I've got. No kit as such but I did tap them up for some discount
:y :y :y
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So it's all systems go. Tinley are sending me the tank etc, should be here tomorrow. Cliff the man has posted the front end kit. So the only missing part of the puzzle is the fannymould which Kevin is sorting out. I know it's in the post but not sure if Kev has got it yet. So who knows maybe this weekend I maybe getting gassed up and down right dirty with the Omega........ Now how many of you loons said you would help!!!!!!!! hhahahahaahahhhaha :o :o :o :o
:-* :-*
Just one more question. I've seen on the wiring a wire to the obd port. is it needed on the 3.0lt
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what tank did you get in the end?
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90.
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So it's all systems go. Tinley are sending me the tank etc, should be here tomorrow. Cliff the man has posted the front end kit. So the only missing part of the puzzle is the fannymould which Kevin is sorting out. I know it's in the post but not sure if Kev has got it yet. So who knows maybe this weekend I maybe getting gassed up and down right dirty with the Omega........ Now how many of you loons said you would help!!!!!!!! hhahahahaahahhhaha :o :o :o :o
:-* :-*
Just one more question. I've seen on the wiring a wire to the obd port. is it needed on the 3.0lt
Read the electrical connections guide... Everything you need to know is in there ;) :y In fact, everything you need to know for the whole installation can be found in the guides or LPG threads in the gallery :y
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Yea. Much easier to understand than the one pager you get with the Stag kit. Al taxi has just been over with his kit. There's not that many wires to connect, it just looks time consuming. Still I'll give it a good go. Worst thing looks like setting it up. I've read the instructions but haven't got a clue
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Ta for the cuppa :y
Hopefully it all makes a bit more sense now ::)
If I can get my head round it anyone can ;D
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The first one I did I actually marked all the wires of the loom with tape to make it easier ;)
Now I barely look at the wiring diagram :-X ::)
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Funny you should say that ::)
Was a useful spot of revision given that I haven't looked at my kit since making the injector loom :-\
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Just spoke to FES and they have no 4-holes in stock and no idea when the next lot are coming in. Spoke to lpg-kits.org and they were £40 more than TT :o
I think I know where I am going for my tank :y
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Perhaps other places have come up in price considerably then... Tinley's prices haven't changed much in the last 5 years or more!
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Tinley delivery here and complete. :y
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Right. Front end kit here. Couple of questions.
What injectors are these? I was expecting Valtek but I understand they have red bodies. Only I.D. I can find is a Motogas sticker
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/dcwo/20130117_185302_zps12ac0bb9.jpg)
Next one. What is this for? I've got an KME gold vaporiser. Does this need to be fitted between the tank and vaporiser or is redundant with my type of vaporiser
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/dcwo/20130117_183307_zpsca636366.jpg)
Just the inlet manifold to come and then I can beaver away
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the filter screws into the KME, and the liquid feed screws into filter.
Injectors - I'd have to plug in to mine, as I have the same, but can't remember what we set them to
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I think those injectors are configured as "AC 3 ohm". Failing that, list the possibilities and I'll pick one
at random.
Go easy on drilling the jets out on those!
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Was aiming for 2.5 mm as a start. Filter now makes sense. Just got to order up some Faro fittings as the ones in the front end kit won't fit the new pipe. It's to big on the outside diameter to allow the brass nut to slide over the pipe. Also my solenoid valve on the tank has a male external thread. It's a Valtek item. I'm guessing that's just 1/4" BSP size?
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I have a feeling 2.5mm on those is a bit much as a starting point, but I'll set someone who uses them comment further. ;)
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Start at 2.2mm and work up in 0.1mm increments. 2.5 was too much on my 2.5. I think CG has his 3.2 at 2.3mm :y
Edit: In fact start at 2mm :y
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Right ya are. Am I right in thinking the only jets I need to drill out are the ones which screw in to the injector bodies?
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Nope they are already about 3.5mm and do not need any drilling.
The brass fittings on the injectors are what you need to drill. Remove with a suitable spanner and hold them in a vice or similar.
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I have a feeling 2.5mm on those is a bit much as a starting point, but I'll set someone who uses them comment further. ;)
Indeed, mine with those injectors are 2.5mm, and the injectors are too slow at idle.
I'd start at 2.1mm, and increase at 0.1mm increments if it starts to go lean at full chat
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Nope they are already about 3.5mm and do not need any drilling.
The brass fittings on the injectors are what you need to drill. Remove with a suitable spanner and hold them in a vice or similar.
Isn't what I said? Just to clear it up I mean the LPG injectors not the fannymould end??
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Nope they are already about 3.5mm and do not need any drilling.
The brass fittings on the injectors are what you need to drill. Remove with a suitable spanner and hold them in a vice or similar.
Isn't what I said? Just to clear it up I mean the LPG injectors not the fannymould end??
Sorry, long day ;D ;D :-[
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I can't believe I've got to buy a load of daft drill sizes. I'll never use them again. :-[ :-[
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you can get them cheap on the bay
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Drill bits now sorted. Tinley order in for pipe fittings and few odds and sods. Now just the fannymould. I may fit up the tank this weekend so that's already for when I can fit the front end.
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Said mould has arrived. :y
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So what you doing on here then? Get out in the cold and the snow and drilled :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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So what you doing on here then? Get out in the cold and the snow and drilled :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
My fingers aren't accurate enough tonight. ::)
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Mould of fani? Cool! :)
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Mould of fani? Cool! :)
Apparently, you can get cream for that. :-X
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Mould of fani? Cool! :)
(http://www.pharmacyathand.co.uk/media/gbu0/prodlg/canesten-cream-combi.jpg)
:)
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(http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/faq/images/repair-valve-08.jpg)
More like......
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Guys. Can you look back at the photo of the injectors on the previous page. The jets are drilled out to 2.5. I need to order some more but am unsure which ones to get.
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Guys. Can you look back at the photo of the injectors on the previous page. The jets are drilled out to 2.5. I need to order some more but am unsure which ones to get.
They are an AC Rail. All I can suggest is to try looking for the same nozzles. You sure they've been drilled? take them out and look in the other end ;)
Oh, and as said, start at 2.1mm maximum ;)
As a last resort you can fill them with solder and drill out again :-\ :-\
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Cliff mentioned he had drilled them.
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When you say they are AC rail. Is that the maker or they are an AC (as in current) rail (as in a set of injectors)? I can't find supplier. However they look exactly the same as Valtek type 30 jets which in turn look the same as sigas jets which in turn oh look you get the idea ::)
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When you say they are AC rail. Is that the maker or they are an AC (as in current) rail (as in a set of injectors)? I can't find supplier. However they look exactly the same as Valtek type 30 jets which in turn look the same as sigas jets which in turn oh look you get the idea ::)
Yep... Manufactured exclusively for AC. I'll see if I can get the details for them during the week
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Got it!!! Valtek nozzles :P :P :P
So tonight I fitted up the tank and played around with the tank frame. The bolts which hold the frame to floor, do they have to have nylock nuts fitted?
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Got it!!! Valtek nozzles :P :P :P
So tonight I fitted up the tank and played around with the tank frame. The bolts which hold the frame to floor, do they have to have nylock nuts fitted?
Not specifically, IIRC, but if you are mounting it where most of us have the bolt goes through a box section, so you can't do it up tight without crushing said box section. In this case, nyloc nuts and/ or a spacer inside the box section are required.
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Cheers Kev. I'm gonna crack on with the install this weekend. (hint hint everybody.......oh don't tell me your all to busy stuffin broken glass up your bottoms :P)
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This weekend:
- bowling fri night
- triathlon training camp on sat
- sunday, sushi makingclass and cirque du soliel
plus I might even get a birthday shag off the missus so you are waaaaaay down on the list buddy, sorry ;D
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This weekend:
- bowling fri night
- triathlon training camp on sat
- sunday, sushi makingclass and cirque du soliel
plus I might even get a birthday shag off the missus so you are waaaaaay down on the list buddy, sorry ;D
If she's got any energy left :-X ::)
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Got it!!! Valtek nozzles :P :P :P
So tonight I fitted up the tank and played around with the tank frame. The bolts which hold the frame to floor, do they have to have nylock nuts fitted?
Not specifically, IIRC, but if you are mounting it where most of us have the bolt goes through a box section, so you can't do it up tight without crushing said box section. In this case, nyloc nuts and/ or a spacer inside the box section are required.
I used Nylocks and spring washers ;)
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Another question. Does the filler pipe which is being fitted to the offside rear quarter need to be run inside the plastic 30mm hose like the delivery hose?
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Another question. Does the filler pipe which is being fitted to the offside rear quarter need to be run inside the plastic 30mm hose like the delivery hose?
Yep, unless you're using a JIC (hydraulic type) pipe in which case it just needs rubber boots both ends. If you do that you may be told to run a second vent pipe anyway.
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Second vent pipe? Yep using JIC
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Second vent pipe? Yep using JIC
It's to do with cross section of vent pipe. With a polyflex pipe and too big a cable there isn't sufficient to comply with COP 11 ::) Most inspectors will let it go as it's borderline ;) It's worth a call to whoever you are going to use to inspect it :y
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I see. My plan is to use a loop like the guide you wrote so I can route the feed pipe down the offside of the car and also have the fill pipe entering the offside of the gas tight box. If I use the 30mm sleeve on the filler pipe even though it has JIC pipe and is going to a quarter panel filler would that count as a second vent pipe? Or does it have to vent to under the vehicle as well?
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Any vent pipe needs a continuous drop to the bottom of the vehicle, so a pipe to a filler won't count (unless it goes out through the floor and back up inside the boot, inside ducting while inside the vehicle. Would be better than nothing, though, and, as said, there's a certain amount of flexibility if you pick the right tester. ;)
It's acceptable to run rubber hose outside ducting from tank to filler as long as it's sealed at each end, but you might end up with too little tank venting, as said.
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I see. My plan is to use a loop like the guide you wrote so I can route the feed pipe down the offside of the car and also have the fill pipe entering the offside of the gas tight box. If I use the 30mm sleeve on the filler pipe even though it has JIC pipe and is going to a quarter panel filler would that count as a second vent pipe? Or does it have to vent to under the vehicle as well?
You'll struggle to do that TBH. if you use liquid PTFE (Gas rated) on the outlet valve on the tank you can turn it to avoid the loop. Experience has told us that liquid PTFE is better than tape :y
Have a quick chat with them... Or do the calculations. I'm sure 1 pipe and the cable is ok :-\
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Can't turn it. Solenoid on valve won't fit in the box if I do.. Also I was going to run the cable inside the car. This is just an personal preference so won't be going down the vent pipe just leaving the actual gas feed.
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Can't turn it. Solenoid on valve won't fit in the box if I do.. Also I was going to run the cable inside the car. This is just an personal preference so won't be going down the vent pipe just leaving the actual gas feed.
Great idea :y But how do you intend to get it into the gas tight box? ???
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Can't turn it. Solenoid on valve won't fit in the box if I do.. Also I was going to run the cable inside the car. This is just an personal preference so won't be going down the vent pipe just leaving the actual gas feed.
Great idea :y But how do you intend to get it into the gas tight box? ???
Easier if you follow the gas delivery line :y
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Box has 4 ports. Plan is to use 1 for filler. 1 for feed bike. 1 will have blank fitted and the last one for cables. I have some 4 core cable which fits tightly in one of rubber cups and I can make leak free.
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Box has 4 ports. Plan is to use 1 for filler. 1 for feed bike. 1 will have blank fitted and the last one for cables. I have some 4 core cable which fits tightly in one of rubber cups and I can make leak free.
Be prepared to have to prove to the inspector it's leak free ;) They don't like it!
Far easier to run the wiring with the feed line ;)
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If I do that its looking like I'll need a second vent line. The pipe supplied is quite thick and with the wires Im gonna fall foul of cross area rule for the pipe. Seems I can't win
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If I do that its looking like I'll need a second vent line. The pipe supplied is quite thick and with the wires Im gonna fall foul of cross area rule for the pipe. Seems I can't win
If you have 30mm Vent pipe (they also do a 26mm which is useless!) then by my quick calculations you are absolutely fine with the fill pipe and a wire :y
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Well that sounds like the way to go then. It's easier to run a second vent than unpicking all the wiring if I get a tough inspection
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Well that sounds like the way to go then. It's easier to run a second vent than unpicking all the wiring if I get a tough inspection
Glad you've seen the light! We've got quite a bit of experience here now ;)
Make sure when you run the fuel line that you go around any potential pinch points... That Gixer fella is the expert on the route ;)
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Well that's me stuffed. I can't get new nozzles for the injectors which fit the AC rail solenoids. I am out of ideas. I either go with the 2.5 which Cliff drilled the current nozzles out or I going to have to buy new injector rails. If I have to go down that route I'm gonna can the whole idea. Sick to death of it already and I haven't even got round to fitting the wretched thing. >:( >:( >:(
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I run TBE on AC rails, 2.5mm, and 1bar (when it was set about 18 months ago, not checked since... ...in fact, I think I lent my cable out).
It "goes" fine. No probs whatsoever. But it doesn't idle well. Very grumpy at idle, unless in drive (or loads of electrical load).
So, I'd go ahead with what you have, and in parallel try to get nozzles from AC (or a supplier), knowing that what you have "works", just isn't ideal. Mine has been like it for nearly 2 years... ...I have the new nozzles, just need to do the work ;D
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Also bear in mind that you could fill the old nozzles with solder or epoxy and re-drill them. It's not the end of the world. :y
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That's an idea Kev. I've tried measuring the old jets across the threads to see what size I've got and it's 7 mm approx. My car normally always has the A/C I wonder if that would be enough to raise the idle enough to stop it burpin and fartin on tick over. I may wander out to garage now and try soldering the old jets to see what happens. Or I may pull the JD out the cupboard and sit here in a huff. Bad work day as well. hhmmmmm JD.
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My A/C is always on. As you can imagine, this weather, the idle is particularly grumpy.
If I could find my lead, I'd set it to switch back to petrol under 800rpm, as occasionally it stalls. But then, I really should put the new nozzles in ;D
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Right. I now have six nozzles with 2 mm holes :) For those of you who are reading my "LPG versus JD" saga I did this the following way.
First things don't bother with a soldering iron. You need to get the nozzles hot. I found a plumbers blow lamp far more effective.
So take nozzle O ring off and gently hold with a pair of mole grips
Heat the nozzle. It doesn't need to be red hot. I did a mild count to 30.
Remove the flame. I found it easier this way.
Then just keep feeding the solder in to the nozzle. The mole grips do a good job of retaining the heat.
Wait for it to cool (this is important. Trust me I managed to pop the solder out on the first one I did)
Then once cool drill to size.
Simples.
If you balls it up just re-solder. Pays to have a steady hand. First one I did the solder flowed over the threads. I just heated it up again and wiped the threads round to remove it.
Tomorrow I'm going to pick the fannymould up from Kev. This really is the last bit of the puzzle. I'll fit the Manifold nozzles up and then I'll crack on the Weekend. Once again I owe it all to the Guru's on here. I'd never of thought of doing that. :y
Anybody who thinks this is a bodge. Get over it. I won't be buying anymore jets. I will now just take them out in 0.1 mm steps till I hit the sweet spot. If that turns out to be 2.5 mm I will open my tool chest draw, line it with broken glass covered in chopped chillies then repeatedly slam my genitals in the draw. :-[ :-[
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Right. I now have six nozzles with 2 mm holes :) For those of you who are reading my "LPG versus JD" saga I did this the following way.
First things don't bother with a soldering iron. You need to get the nozzles hot. I found a plumbers blow lamp far more effective.
So take nozzle O ring off and gently hold with a pair of mole grips
Heat the nozzle. It doesn't need to be red hot. I did a mild count to 30.
Remove the flame. I found it easier this way.
Then just keep feeding the solder in to the nozzle. The mole grips do a good job of retaining the heat.
Wait for it to cool (this is important. Trust me I managed to pop the solder out on the first one I did)
Then once cool drill to size.
Simples.
If you balls it up just re-solder. Pays to have a steady hand. First one I did the solder flowed over the threads. I just heated it up again and wiped the threads round to remove it.
Tomorrow I'm going to pick the fannymould up from Kev. This really is the last bit of the puzzle. I'll fit the Manifold nozzles up and then I'll crack on the Weekend. Once again I owe it all to the Guru's on here. I'd never of thought of doing that. :y
Anybody who thinks this is a bodge. Get over it. I won't be buying anymore jets. I will now just take them out in 0.1 mm steps till I hit the sweet spot. If that turns out to be 2.5 mm I will open my tool chest draw, line it with broken glass covered in chopped chillies then repeatedly slam my genitals in the draw. :-[ :-[
Noted ... film crew on standby ..... :) :) :)
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Anybody who thinks this is a bodge. Get over it. I won't be buying anymore jets. I will now just take them out in 0.1 mm steps till I hit the sweet spot. If that turns out to be 2.5 mm I will open my tool chest draw, line it with broken glass covered in chopped chillies then repeatedly slam my genitals in the draw. :-[ :-[
Noted ... film crew on standby ..... :) :) :)
It won't be 2.5 mm. I was going to suggest starting at 2mm as mine's being a bit grumpy at the moment and they're 2.3mm
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Let's hope your right. I'm not looking forward to the draw slamming. :-[ :-[
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Once it's running, have a look at the LPG injector durations when idling. From what I recall of Gaffers' conversion, if the LPG injector duration is dropping to 3ms then they start sporadically not opening as the minimum fuelling required is approaching the open/close time of the injector. If you're well clear of that, check fuelling at wide open throttle, and if that's OK, they are big enough.
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I'll pick your brains when I pick up the manifold tonight. Been having a good read of the calibration stage.
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Thanks for the tea and manifold Kev :y
I now have everything I need. So early finish tomorrow and I've got Monday off as well. Lets see if I can finish the job from start to finish :)
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Thanks for the tea and manifold Kev :y
I now have everything I need. So early finish tomorrow and I've got Monday off as well. Lets see if I can finish the job from start to finish :)
Good luck .. hope you don't hit any unforeseen snags and the weather is kind to you :y :y :y
I'm away in the tin tent so won't know how its going until Sunday night ... but look forward to some good news :)
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Well come park ya van on my drive and help me!!! think of it as a working holiday :P
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Well come park ya van on my drive and help me!!! think of it as a working holiday :P
Nice idea .. but SWTSMBO might object .. and at the Burns Night Supper we are going to I've been promised an "interesting" single malt to accompany the Haggis.... and it will be nice and warm in the hall dressed in me DJ :)
So much to my regret ( :) ) I must decline your very kind invitation ;) ;) ;) ;)
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I can offer a garage with space heater, tea/coffee, Beer,brandy,JD. 3 pats of the dogs head and lots of food....... as long as it's hot dogs
I'm not winning am I?
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I can offer a garage with space heater, tea/coffee, Beer,brandy,JD. 3 pats of the dogs head and lots of food....... as long as it's hot dogs
I'm not winning am I?
I suppose ... I could be tempted .... if thefee rewards for my efforts, and for missing my annual Homage to the Haggis were the keys and V5C (suitably signed) of the LC ......
:-* :-* :-* :-*
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Thanks for the tea and manifold Kev :y
I now have everything I need. So early finish tomorrow and I've got Monday off as well. Lets see if I can finish the job from start to finish :)
Don't rush it. And it is a rush - but possible - over a single weekend.
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Thanks for the tea and manifold Kev :y
I now have everything I need. So early finish tomorrow and I've got Monday off as well. Lets see if I can finish the job from start to finish :)
Don't rush it. And it is a rush - but possible - over a single weekend.
Agreed. The group of us who have done several can do it in a weekend, but that's with 3/4 people who know exactly what they are doing ;)
I did my first conversion in about 31/2 days, with a little tidying to finish after, but I now know that it wouldn't have passed an inspection due to a couple of very minor things ::)
I'm unavailable tonight but you have my number if you need advice over the weekend, or post it on here for a fairly quick response :y
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Thanks for the tea and manifold Kev :y
I now have everything I need. So early finish tomorrow and I've got Monday off as well. Lets see if I can finish the job from start to finish :)
Don't rush it. And it is a rush - but possible - over a single weekend.
minie took 2 extended days and 3 people who all worked in different areas it was full on and we didnt spend much time chatting or drinking tea. if i recall correctly i did the arse end.james stripped and rebuilt the engine and kev did the manifold and electrics.
hubby decided to fill the fuel tank full before hand so had the added snag of 70ltrs of petrol to distribute into james car ;D ;D ;D
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Tank in. Pipes tomorrow morning.
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Pipes run, vaporiser fitted, pressure switch fitted. Some issues. My vaporiser has dual low pressure take off. Now I've fitted the temperature on just one vapour line. Will this be ok? I've fitted the ECU up behind the suspension pump just below the headlight level control module. In this position the loom is going to be to short on the nearside injector bank. I can move it so it's in front of the suspension pump but I'm worried about water damage. Any other ideas or are these units pretty sturdy and can take a bit of water. I'll finish it tomorrow but judging by the time it's taken me today I don't think I'll get round to commission it.
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The Stag 300 is pretty robust. Mount with cables at bottom.
If you want to run electrical connections to both petrol and gas injectors around the back of the engine bay, they will all need extending. If you run between bagpipes, they don't.
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I want to run via the Baggies!!! I'll move it tomorrow and all will be joyous again
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You only need the sensor in one line :y
Other question has been answered :y
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Cheers, another day of spannering tomorrow then. I'm quite enjoying this job. Or is that just the pain killers washed down with JD talking :o
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Cheers, another day of spannering tomorrow then. I'm quite enjoying this job. Or is that just the pain killers washed down with JD talking :o
It's quite satisfying, especially when you get it running on the cheap(er) stuff
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Gas ECU remounted. Wires now long enough. All water pipes done. Cam cover gaskets done. Inlet tree back in place with gas injectors fitted. Had to stop now. Broke Plenum dual ram solenoid. So will collect replacement tomorrow. To finish. Replace plenum, run wires for switch. Run wires to ECU box and then it's bung in some gas and pray it's OK. ::)
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Nice one :y
I am going to be free on tuesday morning if you fancy bringing it up to me*. I am no where near as experienced as LD, KW and CG on lpg but I know the basics and can certainly give it the once over and help with any niggles :y
* tuesday PM is out though, absolutely set in stone online seminar where I will be prospecting for a new job and networking with potential future employers.
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I'm at work till Friday now. I'll probably leave the actual commissioning till next weekend so I can do it in the light. Thanks very much for the offer of help though. :y Have to remember I've only got 2.0 mm jets and it will probably take a lot of setting up. Which I'm not looking forward to :-[
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Yeah fettling can be a bitch, but just following methodically and with guidance from glassback and yoda ::) you'll get it sorted :y
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Nothing to report tonight other than collecting solenoid from Rob (cheers Fella) Now I've got to pull my finger out as I've sold my other car tonight. This means I may have to take the camper van to work and it doesn't have a heater. BUUMSSS :(
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Well I've been laid up rough for the last week. Went out today but not really in the right frame of mind. I've got the wiring to the ECU to finish and the switch/gauge to wire and that's it finished. Problem is I can't see me getting time now till next weekend. Still couple more hours and it be finished
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Stick at it, be well worth it in the long run :y
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I think you've made great progress so far :y
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All mechanicals are now complete. It's taken me a bit longer than I'd like but I'm still suffering at the mo. So now I've got to bite the bullet and bung some gas in it and then it's a check for leaks followed by some calibration. Had the software running. Checked the injectors are listed as correct and sorted out the fuel gauge so it now show's empty when it's empty and not full when it's empty ::) ::)
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Sweet!
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All coming along good :y
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Good news doz :y
The Buzz you'll get when she fires up on gas for the first time will make you feel tons better too ;D ;) :y
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Good news doz :y
The Buzz you'll get when she fires up on gas for the first time will make you feel tons better too ;D ;) :y
And the deflation when it stalls ;D
It needs a bit of tweaking to get nozzle sizes, pressure etc right, to get a base calibration on. Fortunately, the Stag/KME/AC Injector setup is reasonably well known here :)
The automatic calibration (not the base one) dos work, but frequently switches to petrol to build some of the map.
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Well. I've had a disaster. Had a leak from the feed line from the tank. Wasn't to bad so I was going to nip it up as they say. I removed the solenoid from the valve and noticed it was also leaking from around the base of the shaft were the solenoid slides over. I went to see if it was loose and the wee leak became a bloody major one. I moved the car very quickly so it wasn't around anything disconnected the battery and just left it to vent off. I'd put 10 litres in for the initial test. I just walked away and waited for an enormous bang. Luckily it never came. I'm not saying the boot got to cold when it went but I had a cappachino stood in the boot which it turned to ice cream!!!!! So now I have a car which stinks of Meccaptin. Tinley are sending me a new valve. Looks like the O ring was nicked during assembly. Bloody Fek. >:( >:( >:(
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At least it was only 10l. Mine was 67l ;D
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:o bugger :'( Still, knowing Tinley Tech, the new valve will be with you tomorrow or Saturday :y
There are far less exciting ways to blow £7.50 though ;D
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At least it was only 10l. Mine was 67l ;D
67!!!! Blimey I was close to calling the fire brigade with 10!!!! However I work with LPG everyday and I'd done everything to remove the possibility of a BANG!!! The only thing I could of done was hose it down which would written the car off which is why I didn't call 999 as it's what they would of done. What did you do when 67 litres let go? Al your right. 7.50 is a packet of fags so not worried about the cost. However I now have a bad smoking habit to calm my nervous. I mean I've been involved where thousands of litres of LPG have been released and my bum didn't twitch as much as it did to day. Didn't help that it let go on the outlaws drive either.
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Mine was only a minor leak, and into the airtight box. Just drove it around for a few days, then when empty, fixed the leak.
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At least it was only 10l. Mine was 67l ;D
67!!!! Blimey I was close to calling the fire brigade with 10!!!! However I work with LPG everyday and I'd done everything to remove the possibility of a BANG!!! The only thing I could of done was hose it down which would written the car off which is why I didn't call 999 as it's what they would of done. What did you do when 67 litres let go? Al your right. 7.50 is a packet of fags so not worried about the cost. However I now have a bad smoking habit to calm my nervous. I mean I've been involved where thousands of litres of LPG have been released and my bum didn't twitch as much as it did to day. Didn't help that it let go on the outlaws drive either.
Not that hosing it down would have done much to prevent it going bang. Best to get it out in the open and let it vent to atmosphere so it's not in a strong enough concentration to ignite. Still, what a PITA! All because someone took a short cut. >:(
I'm told that they calm down once the tank gets cold enough that the contents are liquid at atmospheric pressure, and they just simmer until it's boiled off. Bet it'll put you off hard boiled eggs for a while! ;D
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At least it was only 10l. Mine was 67l ;D
67!!!! Blimey I was close to calling the fire brigade with 10!!!! However I work with LPG everyday and I'd done everything to remove the possibility of a BANG!!! The only thing I could of done was hose it down which would written the car off which is why I didn't call 999 as it's what they would of done. What did you do when 67 litres let go? Al your right. 7.50 is a packet of fags so not worried about the cost. However I now have a bad smoking habit to calm my nervous. I mean I've been involved where thousands of litres of LPG have been released and my bum didn't twitch as much as it did to day. Didn't help that it let go on the outlaws drive either.
I don't get that ??? Why would water cause a write off ??
If it's not alight, then "hosing down" (I assume with water) will actually ADD latent heat energy to the equation and INCREASE the rate of "gas discharge" ... if it "gases off" quickly enough it will "overcool" and the latent heat required for evaporation will not be present ?? So the "gassing off" process would slow down .. a little ??
Or does LPG have its own set of rules outside of Boyles's and Charles's Laws ???
Serious question as I don't see the logic in "hosing down" at all ... and if it is burning there are other reasons for NOT putting the flame out !! :(
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Serious question as I don't see the logic in "hosing down" at all ... and if it is burning there are other reasons for NOT putting the flame out !! :(
Indeed, hosing down would indeed be counter-productive, but the fire brigade wouldn't have just turned up and watched the in-boot choc ice form and then dissipate harmlessly. Hosing down is what they do. ::)
Either that or cut the roof off. ;D
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Why would water cause a right off? because the amount you be putting in to it you'd have to strip the whole car to ever get it dry again. Also the adding of water. It causes dispersal and if it did ignite everything is already wet. If I had called the safety services this is what they would do. Honestly it's what we do at work. Got a leak? Can it go Bang? Ok dump lots and lots of water on it. I'm so glad I paid attention when I did my fire fighting courses at work. I did the best thing by disconnecting the battery and just making sure it was in a well ventilated area and letting it boil off. Still doesn't help the my trollies, which are some what soiled now :-[
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Thanks for that doz .. makes more sense now ... :y :y
Not really an effective solution .. just "do something" rather than "do nothing" ...even though your "do nothing" was actually safer and more effective !!
:)
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At least it was only 10l. Mine was 67l ;D
T be fair, yours didn't actually start leaking until you'd filled right up and we had driven over to the car park to calibrate it ::)
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Right. I have a major issue. One which may result in the scrapping of the car. After my little gas explosion it stinks. The Mercaptan from the LPG has got in to every fabric. Even the leather seats stink. It is undrivable, the smell leads to a bad head in the car within a few minutes. I've had a quick read on what removes the odour and at work we use hi concentrated Chlorine which obviously isn't suitable for fabrics and confined spaces!!! So it looks like my only option will be to gut the the entire interior. Everything stinks including the head lining. If that's the case I'll scrap it. I've got a right oppsing strop on about this. Because of a faulty part which has been charged FOC I can see some real shit trying to get any money out of them to resolve the issue.
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Oh mate, that's not so good :-\
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Oh bugger :'( so nearly there too :-\
Doz, it really isn't the end of the world :y a frustrating pain in the yaris yes, but not a big deal :y
A day will see the entire interior out and refitted :y also an ideal opportunity to check the sunroof drains and also make the interior exactly as you want it... Refurbished door cards, alcantara head lining etc :y
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LEAK FREE STINK FREE AND IDLING ON GAS ;D ;D ;D
De-humidifier got rid of the stink. No gas leaks (different valve supplied with much longer thread in to tank) Auto Calibration done. Now to map :y
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Waiting for my co-pilot to return which means mapping won't happen until late this afternoon. However I've been having a play with the set up. I got a message saying jets to big during calibration (2.0mm) and it is a little lumpy on idle. However when I was playing I pulled back the injectors by 8% and they then tracked the petrol injectors spot on and the idle sounded perfect. I've reset them to 0% compensation now till I can map it. I was just wondering if the -8% correction sounds excessive? Or at this stage am I reading to much in to it?
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Right, before you go any further look through the calibration guide again. Don't adjust the injectors by the %age level... It's a bodge!
What pressure have you set the reducer at (with the hex adjuster in the middle)? Ideally you want about 1.1 Bar. Then auto calibrate it. Then take it on the road. Ideally you want to drive the same route a few times... Once on petrol, then start collecting the LPG map. The lines drawn are averages and will move about but then click on the orange dots on the red line and move them up or down with the arrow keys. Move them in the direction you want the green, LPG line to move :y
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Gas pres. set at 1.08 which is the closest I could get it!! I hope you approve. I will map properly just waiting for my partner in grime and I have to pick a diff up this afternoon so it will be after that. I've got the guide doesn't seem so bad. I don't want to bodge it I was just curious and as it wasn't set up thought it was best to have a fiddle now. Will the mapping also pull the idle back like I did? The engine seemed so much happier when it was pulled back at idle
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Gas pres. set at 1.08 which is the closest I could get it!! I hope you approve. I will map properly just waiting for my partner in grime and I have to pick a diff up this afternoon so it will be after that. I've got the guide doesn't seem so bad. I don't want to bodge it I was just curious and as it wasn't set up thought it was best to have a fiddle now. Will the mapping also pull the idle back like I did? The engine seemed so much happier when it was pulled back at idle
You'll map it across the entire RPM range ;)
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Cool. That's what I wanted to know. :y
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LEAK FREE STINK FREE AND IDLING ON GAS ;D ;D ;D
De-humidifier got rid of the stink. No gas leaks (different valve supplied with much longer thread in to tank) Auto Calibration done. Now to map :y
Good news indeed :y
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LEAK FREE STINK FREE AND IDLING ON GAS ;D ;D ;D
De-humidifier got rid of the stink. No gas leaks (different valve supplied with much longer thread in to tank) Auto Calibration done. Now to map :y
Good news indeed :y
Brilliant :y
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Right I've mapped it and guess what? It runs like a bag of nails. Idles ok. Goes like stink ok but very small throttle openings has the engine running like it's dropped one or two cylinders. I've drilled the nozzles out to 2.2 mm. I've had the plenum off and checked all the wiring and it's all OK. I've even blown compressed air down to the manifold from the Gas solenoids (just down the pipe not down the solenoids) and nothings worked. So my last best guess before I get committed. Is gas hard on spark plugs? I have genuine 2 prong standard plugs. They look ok but are quite old. Possibility for small throttle openings? Goes great on petrol and on gas if you give it the beans it's just at around small throttle openings it seems to drop a cylinder or two
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Yes, LPG requires a good, strong spark and often highlights ht faults ;)
Have you checked for codes?
Feel free to give me a shout tomorrow ;)
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No codes. No Warning lights. Leads are relatively new. I'll give you a bell tomorrow after work. I share an office and hate making private calls. I'll grab a set of plugs and see what happens. At one point I had the Maps 99% identical. With the 2.0mm jets the ms on gas injectors was considerably longer than the petrol ones. At 2.2 mm they are almost identical. Last service before my ownership was October 2008 at 49K miles. I know it had new leads last year but the plugs are getting on for 5 years and 33k miles. So guess it's a good place to start.
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It's best to fit new plugs anyway. :)
It's also very easy to trap the injector to nozzle pipes between the inlet and heads, even partially trapped pipes can cause issues. But if it calibrated ok then probably not that and its ignition related. :)
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Good going though. :)
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Watching with interest for updates :y :y
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Nothing good to report I'm afraid. I've changed the firing order as you said and it now comes off a closed throttle better but still not right. I've tried to map it and have got the the lines almost perfectly overlaying one another yet the vibrations from the engine between 2-3 k rpm is enough to blur vision and cause bad scuttle shake at heavy loads. Once again if you clear the area it seem to go away if your accelerating harder. All seems to happen in the first quarter of the throttle travel which is what you use mostly to maintain a constant speed. I'm just wondering if I may have the wrong injectors selected. Could that cause it? I've also had a warning message. Not an error just a warning. I'm guessing this happened when I booted it at WOT. It said "Gas Injector fully open Check Lambda sensor in full engine load". Thing is both Lambdas are switching well and are almost equal in volts range so don't understand that one. Right these are the injectors. Only markings are "Motogas"
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/dcwo/20130218_194658_zps29d3ed12.jpg)
And the Ecu is configured for VALTEK Type 30/ RAIL IG 1/ AC GIAC 01 (3 ohm). Would selecting the wrong injectors give the issues I've got? In my quest to genuinely cock about. When I've been mapping I've moved the very first dot against the Multiplier scale. All the way from 1.6 down to 0.2. It makes no difference what ever I do the same problem persists. I am not prepared to throw anymore money at it just changing things on a wim and as the car runs perfect on petrol I'm completely stumped. So my options are. Give it to a fitter and pay them to fix it. Pull the kit off and throw it in the bin. Sell car as is. Scrap the car. The third option is looking the favourite right now I've had a complete gut full and TBH if I don't get this sorted soon I'll have to part with it. Anybody want a Silver Elite with CID and LSD? Great on petrol. Total bag of shite on gas.............. sorry.
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I'd maybe think about getting to one of the LPG experts here? Worth cost in petrol easily?
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Don't give in, there's lots of knowledge of this kit on here. You will get it sorted. :y
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Right, I'll have to look at my settings tomorrow but they may be the wrong injectors selected... There should be a couple of options for AC injectors IIRC :-\
While you had the plenum off did you check the injector pipes weren't trapped? And have you definitely got the right injector pipes connected to the right injectors? :-\
If all else fails, it can be run on petrol until someone can help you out :y
Bear with it... It's fixable ;)
Ignore the warning as long as the lambda readings stay high ;)
It could still be HT related but need to check everything else first :y
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Wiring is defo correct. Pipes are free. I've blown compressed air into the manifold and heard no difference. Just measured resistance on all six coils. Bearing in mind they are luke warm from the last run the resistances I was getting went from 3.4 to 4 ohm. Not sure if that difference in resistance is enough to throw it all to cock. I'm off to stuff broken glass down my trollies. Be less painful than this.
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Wiring is defo correct. Pipes are free. I've blown compressed air into the manifold and heard no difference. Just measured resistance on all six coils. Bearing in mind they are luke warm from the last run the resistances I was getting went from 3.4 to 4 ohm. Not sure if that difference in resistance is enough to throw it all to cock. I'm off to stuff broken glass down my trollies. Be less painful than this.
I think you might need to bite the bullet and get one of us to have a look over it with you. Walk away and have a break from it ;)
It's probably something really silly and simple so don't lose faith :y
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I know nothing of installing this kit but i'm sure I heard someone mention that the markings on the loom for the gas injector numbers don't match the petrol ones marked on the fuel rail.
Just a thought. probably wrong though.
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I know nothing of installing this kit but i'm sure I heard someone mention that the markings on the loom for the gas injector numbers don't match the petrol ones marked on the fuel rail.
Just a thought. probably wrong though.
Already crossed that one off over the phone ;)
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Wiring is defo correct. Pipes are free. I've blown compressed air into the manifold and heard no difference. Just measured resistance on all six coils. Bearing in mind they are luke warm from the last run the resistances I was getting went from 3.4 to 4 ohm. Not sure if that difference in resistance is enough to throw it all to cock. I'm off to stuff broken glass down my trollies. Be less painful than this.
I think you might need to bite the bullet and get one of us to have a look over it with you. Walk away and have a break from it ;)
It's probably something really silly and simple so don't lose faith :y
When are you free? :-* :-*
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Wiring is defo correct. Pipes are free. I've blown compressed air into the manifold and heard no difference. Just measured resistance on all six coils. Bearing in mind they are luke warm from the last run the resistances I was getting went from 3.4 to 4 ohm. Not sure if that difference in resistance is enough to throw it all to cock. I'm off to stuff broken glass down my trollies. Be less painful than this.
I think you might need to bite the bullet and get one of us to have a look over it with you. Walk away and have a break from it ;)
It's probably something really silly and simple so don't lose faith :y
When are you free? :-* :-*
Saturday ;) But it's a long way and Kevin might offer which is considerably closer ;)
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6 hour round trip :( :(
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6 hour round trip :( :(
Yep ::)
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6 hour round trip :( :(
Yep ::)
I'd have to stop for a pee and everything :o I've got to get this sorted by 12th of March. Got an operation coming up and I'll be in plaster for 4 months and this is the only car I'll be able to drive with my left foot all bundled up :-[ :-[
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6 hour round trip :( :(
Yep ::)
I'd have to stop for a pee and everything :o I've got to get this sorted by 12th of March. Got an operation coming up and I'll be in plaster for 4 months and this is the only car I'll be able to drive with my left foot all bundled up :-[ :-[
It'll still run on petrol ;)
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Yea. Will make things very tight for a while though.
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If Kevin is available, it's worth the trip :y
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Aye. I'm out of ideas. The two last things for me to try are. Gas injector selection and then drilling the jets to 2.5. Will try that tomorrow if Paul is able to tell me his configuration. One last thing. Could the gas ECU be frasseled? but more than anything I need someone else to look now. I'm out of ideas.
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Aye. I'm out of ideas. The two last things for me to try are. Gas injector selection and then drilling the jets to 2.5. Will try that tomorrow if Paul is able to tell me his configuration. One last thing. Could the gas ECU be frasseled? but more than anything I need someone else to look now. I'm out of ideas.
I wouldn't be doing anything as drastic as drilling injectors yet .... you say it runs OK with an open throttle, so the injectors are giving plenty of gas anyway, at low RPM the injectors give less gas so drilling won't do any good, and could make it worse... IF (big IF and guess) the injectors cannot go "low" enough for low rpm ..ie.. because of the size and minimum opening time they are actually "overfuelling" ?? if they can do that ?? as I say ... a guess and probably wrong ...IMHO it needs one of the experts to look at it and look at live data at the same time ... que Kevin :)
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Aye. I'm out of ideas. The two last things for me to try are. Gas injector selection and then drilling the jets to 2.5. Will try that tomorrow if Paul is able to tell me his configuration. One last thing. Could the gas ECU be frasseled? but more than anything I need someone else to look now. I'm out of ideas.
Don't drill them any bigger... It's flowing enough gas ;)
I'll check the settings tomorrow as I know your kit is identical to mine ;)
I assume that you're getting clean, viable RPM figures in the LPG software?
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As said, don't drill them bigger. All these kits we've seen have needed 2.2 nozzles, or there abouts.
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Is anyone else thinking air leak? Or am I reading it wrong?
Easy done with all the plugs under the plenum...
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Can't see it as it's idling ok and goes like a stabbed rat at full chat, just the little throttle openings.
Plus it's fine on Petrol. I'm still leaning towards a HT fault
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I'd be happy to take a look, but I'm a bit tied up until after this weekend.
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Kev you saviour!!!! Let me know when you are free and I'll bring it up. :y :y
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Here you are Dave, a screen shot of the 2 settings pages on the software :y
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8240/8489033168_6436af06c1_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24961476@N08/8489033168/)
Screen Shot (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24961476@N08/8489033168/) by lazydocker (http://www.flickr.com/people/24961476@N08/), on Flickr
Mind, I've just noticed I haven't selected a Lambda Type... Must do that next time I plug in (probably 6 months or so ::))
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Interesting. Can they run without the Lambdas? I have different temp sensor selected and I think my injectors are different.
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Interesting. Can they run without the Lambdas? I have different temp sensor selected and I think my injectors are different.
Yep, although mine are connected up and it does monitor them... I must have missed the selection after the latest firmware update because it never used to be there ::)
The temp sensor is a bit of trial and error to find the one that gives the most accurate reading compared to the car temp ;)
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Hmmm. My software version is 6 something. I couldn't get the interface to work with 9. Couldn't find the drivers.
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Hmmm. My software version is 6 something. I couldn't get the interface to work with 9. Couldn't find the drivers.
Right... You might have to update the firmware, then go to AC 7, then update again and go to AC 9 ;)
If you can't get them I'm sure Kev will, like me, have all the versions installed still as a just in case ;)
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I'd be happy to take a look, but I'm a bit tied up until after this weekend.
Ahem......... do you really want to be admitting to that on here? ::) ;D
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Hmmm. My software version is 6 something. I couldn't get the interface to work with 9. Couldn't find the drivers.
Right... You might have to update the firmware, then go to AC 7, then update again and go to AC 9 ;)
If you can't get them I'm sure Kev will, like me, have all the versions installed still as a just in case ;)
Oh Lordy, how many versions behind is my MV6 now then ;D
Doz, dont drill to 2.5, its too big.
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Fek knows what mine is on :D
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Fek knows what mine is on :D
You don't have a Stag 300 Plus ;)
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Fek knows what mine is on :D
You don't have a Stag 300 Plus ;)
Oh. Good point ::)
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Hmmm. My software version is 6 something. I couldn't get the interface to work with 9. Couldn't find the drivers.
Right... You might have to update the firmware, then go to AC 7, then update again and go to AC 9 ;)
If you can't get them I'm sure Kev will, like me, have all the versions installed still as a just in case ;)
Oh Lordy, how many versions behind is my MV6 now then ;D
Doz, dont drill to 2.5, its too big.
Yeah, about time yours were looked at really :-[
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Right. I'll leave it alone now until some when else can take a look. I'm pretty much at my I.T limits now.
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Right. I've been playing again. Managed to update to version 7 which then helpfully asked me if I wanted 9.1. So I got the latest firmware installed annnnnnnnnnnnnnnd it ran like a bag of bolts. However now it was easy to see I was suffering from a misfire which seemed to improve with revs. So after a chat with Paul I found out how I could drop out each cylinder on lpg one at a time and let that one cylinder run on petrol. It soon become apparent cylinder 5 linked to LPG injector 3 was the root cause of all my issues. So I did the compressed air down to the gas nozzles again and this one did sound different. So off with the plenum again and this time the tress to find nothing amiss. So back together start it up annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd it's a bag of bolts again. So I thought it must be ignition related. As I had to move the injector block I had an idea to drop out the cylinder 5 solenoid. Oh I don't believe it!!!! after all the pants I've been through sat there staring me right in the mincers is a tiny weeny bit of brown packing tape stuck on the seat of the nozzle. I kid you not. How I laughed....... actually that's a right lie. I swore lots. Packing tape removed I checked the solenoid operation across the battery and it worked wonders. So I put it back together fired up and waited for the car to switch to gas. Success!! All six cylinders present and correct!!!!. I wanted to do the base calibration again but I had to wait for the reducer to make 50 degrees C. So while I waited with the engine running I started refitting the scuttle I had removed to double check the condition of the Dis-pack. I didn't even notice the change to gas once the calibration was done it was that smooth. So I took it for another bimble and it now seems to run well at all revs. It still needs mapping. I couldn't get the software to draw the blue and green line. Version 9 is a lot different to 6. So any help with that would be gratefully appreciated. Oh and as it stands at the moment it's going lean at WOT. Not sure if that's the mapping or the jets are to small. Like I said I'll need a hand with this part.
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That's brilliant mate, well done in finding that stumbling block :y
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I can't believe there's been 1898 views and 259 replies to this post. Just proves what a top bunch of lads we have on this forum. You gas guzzerlin gurus I take my hat of to you :y :y
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If memory serves .. you got it to map OK before ..when it was actually only running on 5 cylinders ??? Now its running on 6 ...
Is there a way to completely delete the map you did the first time and start again from scratch, rather than trying to "modify" the known wrong map ???
If that's what you've done just ignore me .. my system is not mappable .... so I don't have to bother :)
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It was mapped on version 6 of the software. Now I'm using 9.1 it's loads more options and it even has a long term calibration thingy wotsit. I just can't get my head round it to do the calibration. The previous attempts won't really mean much now. I've done the base idle calibration several times since.
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I've been watching this thread with interest where I'm thinking about adding LPG to mine and I'm really glad that you have managed to find the fault and getting running properly. :y :y :y
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Well done sir, your on the home straight now :y
Want to do mine ::) :D
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Go for it all I'd say is you need plenty of patients and be prepared to do it over a few weeks of evenings or a couple of weekends if your doing it on your own.
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I've been watching this thread with interest where I'm thinking about adding LPG to mine and I'm really glad that you have managed to find the fault and getting running properly. :y :y :y
Ditto - well done doz :y
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Great stuff. Beer well earned :y
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Excellent... Told you today it would be something simple ;) :y
Go back to basics with mapping and start completely afresh
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Tried that Paul. I did the basic mapping at idle. Then it tells me to do it on the road but I get another box open up with two tick box options. What ever I do with these I just can't seem to get the same level of control of the curves. Very strange.
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I'm guessing that it's the ISA selection box (Auto-adaptation) box :-\ If so, don't tick either of them (make sure both are un-checked) and close the box. Then take for a decent run on petrol, then do the same on LPG making sure you're not going lean at WOT adjust map, then turn on Auto-adaptation using the ISA2 setting.
If you want to call tomorrow it's fine :y
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Did that today. Oh bugger looks like I'll have to bother you again tomorrow.......sorry. :-[
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Did that today. Oh bugger looks like I'll have to bother you again tomorrow.......sorry. :-[
Not a problem... Much easier to talk through it than type :y
Reminds me... Must re-write/update the calibration instructions with some screenshots of the new software ::)
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Go for it!!! I mean it looks like you did the last one using version 1!!! written for use on ZX spectrums. OOOh how I loved those red/blue crazy lines ::) ::)
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Go for it!!! I mean it looks like you did the last one using version 1!!! written for use on ZX spectrums. OOOh how I loved those red/blue crazy lines ::) ::)
I'm hoping Kevin will get the hint as he wrote the current one :-X ::) ;D
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Go for it!!! I mean it looks like you did the last one using version 1!!! written for use on ZX spectrums. OOOh how I loved those red/blue crazy lines ::) ::)
I'm hoping Kevin will get the hint as he wrote the current one :-X ::) ;D
.. and I've not got an ECU with any later software to use as a reference. :P
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Go for it!!! I mean it looks like you did the last one using version 1!!! written for use on ZX spectrums. OOOh how I loved those red/blue crazy lines ::) ::)
I'm hoping Kevin will get the hint as he wrote the current one :-X ::) ;D
.. and I've not got an ECU with any later software to use as a reference. :P
Arse ::) ::) Looks Like I'll have to grab some screen shots then ::)
Although Doz may still need some help mapping it when you have time :-X :P
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Right. I'd say I'm 80% there with the mapping. Good overlay low down and mid range but the LPG curve is a little way above the petrol curve at the top end. Trying to map it on your own is a arse and after I'd driven around for ages I was starting to loose the will to live. So with the Lambda's read rich at WOT and no noticeable difference in poke I switched on the the auto adaption and have left it for now. Kev did you get my PM? your more than welcome to take as many screen shoots as you like of my set up. :y
Car now idles perfectly on both fuels and pulls really well. I've got that nice kick around the 5k RPM mark on both fuels. So I'm guessing it's time to get the all important piece of paper. Maybe I should tidy things up first. I've little bits and bobs off the car all over the place. Once again bit shout out to all the LPG massive ::) ::) especially Mr Lazy who once again put up with me on the blower again today. :y :y
Filled the tank only got 3 green lights showing at the mo (1.9 volts) I'll try not to ask to many daft questions about that set up :-[
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Arse ::) ::) Looks Like I'll have to grab some screen shots then ::)
Although Doz may still need some help mapping it when you have time :-X :P
Speaking of which, I've just been booked on a flight at 0720 tomorrow morning...
It's from Stanstead. >:(
Do Omegas have an option to keep following the little white lines when you nod off at the wheel?
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Arse ::) ::) Looks Like I'll have to grab some screen shots then ::)
Although Doz may still need some help mapping it when you have time :-X :P
Speaking of which, I've just been booked on a flight at 0720 tomorrow morning...
It's from Stanstead. >:(
Do Omegas have an option to keep following the little white lines when you nod off at the wheel?
That's a bit of a pain ::)
Weather forecast up this way isn't fantastic for tonight/early tomorrow ;)
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Right. I'd say I'm 80% there with the mapping. Good overlay low down and mid range but the LPG curve is a little way above the petrol curve at the top end. Trying to map it on your own is a arse and after I'd driven around for ages I was starting to loose the will to live. So with the Lambda's read rich at WOT and no noticeable difference in poke I switched on the the auto adaption and have left it for now. Kev did you get my PM? your more than welcome to take as many screen shoots as you like of my set up. :y
Car now idles perfectly on both fuels and pulls really well. I've got that nice kick around the 5k RPM mark on both fuels. So I'm guessing it's time to get the all important piece of paper. Maybe I should tidy things up first. I've little bits and bobs off the car all over the place. Once again bit shout out to all the LPG massive ::) ::) especially Mr Lazy who once again put up with me on the blower again today. :y :y
Filled the tank only got 3 green lights showing at the mo (1.9 volts) I'll try not to ask to many daft questions about that set up :-[
Good news and glad to hear it :y This is why we recommend this kit though... Remote support is much easier when we know exactly what to expect/see :y :y
As for the level lights... They're temperamental at the best of times but to get a rough idea... Reset trip when filled and monitor how many miles you get to empty and use that as your guide. Once you've done a few tanks you'll get an idea of what you're getting. Then it's a case of using the software to set the thresholds every x number of miles. Probably looking at about every 45 miles. So once you've done 45 miles, read the voltage and set it as a threshold, then at 90 and so on :y
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Booked in Monday morning :-\
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Booked in Monday morning :-\
Be prepared for them to want some remedial work ;)
One thing... You need to make a heat shield for the EGR and pipe to comply with COP 11 ;) They may let it go but just be warned ;)
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I've got some of the heat proof exhaust wrap. Would that do around the EGR?
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I've got some of the heat proof exhaust wrap. Would that do around the EGR?
Be ok on the pipe but may make the unit too hot :-\
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I was gonna ahem block it off anyway. Maybe now is a good time
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Go for it!!! I mean it looks like you did the last one using version 1!!! written for use on ZX spectrums. OOOh how I loved those red/blue crazy lines ::) ::)
I'm hoping Kevin will get the hint as he wrote the current one :-X ::) ;D
.. and I've not got an ECU with any later software to use as a reference. :P
Easily resolved, I need to redo mine after changing nozzles ;D
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Go for it!!! I mean it looks like you did the last one using version 1!!! written for use on ZX spectrums. OOOh how I loved those red/blue crazy lines ::) ::)
I'm hoping Kevin will get the hint as he wrote the current one :-X ::) ;D
.. and I've not got an ECU with any later software to use as a reference. :P
Easily resolved, I need to redo mine after changing nozzles ;D
And I'm not sure I'll see you before Mayday :-\ :-\
Although Johnnycboy was making noises about another Essex meet soon ::)
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how does this auto adaptation work then?
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You tick a box and stuff happens ::) ::) I'm sure one of the guru's has a better answer. Sorry :-[ :-[
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how does this auto adaptation work then?
It was added for lazy fitters ;)
Basically the 300 Plus and Premium collect full, 3D fuel maps which take quite a while to collect. This automatically switches to petrol when a certain (required) set of parameters are met and collects the map point. It also adjusts the fuelling over time to keep it within spec, although the ISA2 setting doesn't work as well as connecting the K Line on a full CANBus setup :y
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New software also has a warm start on gas. As opposed to waiting the designated minimum time after a warm start. :y
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how does this auto adaptation work then?
It was added for lazy fitters ;)
Basically the 300 Plus and Premium collect full, 3D fuel maps which take quite a while to collect. This automatically switches to petrol when a certain (required) set of parameters are met and collects the map point. It also adjusts the fuelling over time to keep it within spec, although the ISA2 setting doesn't work as well as connecting the K Line on a full CANBus setup :y
Is the k bus not a completely seperate, slower and older data bus, from the can bus, which is faster and modern. They would surely be on seperate diagnostic pins on the odb socket.
Sorry to be a smarta** ::)
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how does this auto adaptation work then?
It was added for lazy fitters ;)
Basically the 300 Plus and Premium collect full, 3D fuel maps which take quite a while to collect. This automatically switches to petrol when a certain (required) set of parameters are met and collects the map point. It also adjusts the fuelling over time to keep it within spec, although the ISA2 setting doesn't work as well as connecting the K Line on a full CANBus setup :y
Is the k bus not a completely seperate, slower and older data bus, from the can bus, which is faster and modern. They would surely be on seperate diagnostic pins on the odb socket.
Sorry to be a smarta** ::)
You can be a smartarse all you like... It's still called the K Line in an LPG kit whichever pin you have to connect to ;) ;)
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No wire on my kit went to the OBD socket. Have I missed something?
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No wire on my kit went to the OBD socket. Have I missed something?
Unless you have the Stag 300 Premium it's not used. The ISA2 or whatever it's called automaps by switching back to petrol and watching the injector duration rather than watching the fuel trims.
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I've got a Plus so question answered. Cheers Kev. :y
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How's it running now?
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Not had a chance to run it today. Only moved it and it ran on petrol then. Will take it out tomorrow after I've wrapped the EGR. When I finished with it yesterday it was running well. Maybe a little rich at the top end but not enough to hurt the engine. Part throttle response was good as was the idle. It's a shame you can't go in and see how the self mapping is doing. I've filled it so I'll see what MPG it's doing and hopefully that will give me an idea on how its running, however at some point I'm guess I will have to have another go at mapping
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how does this auto adaptation work then?
As LD says, in a nutshell, it looks at parameters of the engine at a given time, if it hasn't a good enough petrol map for those parameters, it will switch to petrol, and gather data, then switch to gas and calibrate that part of the map.
On my Version 6, it "works" but spends a lot of time getting the full map, esp as its a 3d map, so is on petrol a fair amount. Even hundreds of miles later, you can see it popping back to petrol occasionally.
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Noticed today mine flicking between gas and petrol. Also from cold this morning mine took 6 miles of 60 mph cruising to flick to gas. Have I missed something on the set up? Or could it be something to do with the ISA?
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Noticed today mine flicking between gas and petrol. Also from cold this morning mine took 6 miles of 60 mph cruising to flick to gas. Have I missed something on the set up? Or could it be something to do with the ISA?
It's the adaptions gathering data for the petrol map. :y
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Fell at first hurdle. wrong straps for that size tank.
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Fell at first hurdle. wrong straps for that size tank.
OUCH .. :( Is that a tank out job to rectify ??? :(
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I might have to man handle it about but think I can sort without drastic actions. Guy seemed happy with everything else
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I might have to man handle it about but think I can sort without drastic actions. Guy seemed happy with everything else
Not too bad then ... still a pain though ... good luck with it .. :y :y
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Bit off topic but the aeb lpg kits seem to use the k bus to look at long and short term fuel trims
thus keeping the lpg ecu in sync over time with the petrol ecu
So less recalibrating over time
cant comment on stag as i am not familiar with it
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Fell at first hurdle. wrong straps for that size tank.
Didn't you get the whole lot supplied by Tinley? :-\
Oh... Hang on... Didn't you try saving a few quid and re-using an old frame you had? :-\
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Yea. Frame is ok. However the straps need to be wider once you get to a certain size and apparently I need three. I've ordered them in fact I've gone for over kill and have got 50mm straps because they have a better buckle system. Hopefully it won't be to much issue to fit. Still at least I haven't paid out on the test yet.
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Bit off topic but the aeb lpg kits seem to use the k bus to look at long and short term fuel trims
thus keeping the lpg ecu in sync over time with the petrol ecu
So less recalibrating over time
cant comment on stag as i am not familiar with it
Only viable on OBDII cars - 2.2, 2.6 and 3.2
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Yea. Frame is ok. However the straps need to be wider once you get to a certain size and apparently I need three. I've ordered them in fact I've gone for over kill and have got 50mm straps because they have a better buckle system. Hopefully it won't be to much issue to fit. Still at least I haven't paid out on the test yet.
:o What size tank?
Good news that you first conversion virtually passed first attempt :y
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90 litre. ::)
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90 litre. ::)
Don't think I've seen an Omega with 3 straps, inc 100l tanks
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Yea. Frame is ok. However the straps need to be wider once you get to a certain size and apparently I need three. I've ordered them in fact I've gone for over kill and have got 50mm straps because they have a better buckle system. Hopefully it won't be to much issue to fit. Still at least I haven't paid out on the test yet.
:o What size tank?
Good news that you first conversion virtually passed first attempt :y
Yeah good going Doz. :)
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If you read COP11 it comes down to the width of the bands. Technically speaking 30mm bands you only need 2. Any narrower and you need 3. I think this guy is being a bit of a stickler but he looked under the bonnet and was happy with what he saw. When I go back I'll print off a copy of the COP11 and if he tries to pick it up again on anything daft I'll wave it under his nose. Thing is I bet if I go some where else they'll just pick it up on something else. I guess it's a bit like MOt's you never know what the testers like. Where I go for them everybody complains the MOT guy is a right B'stard but I get on really well with him.
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90 litre. ::)
Don't think I've seen an Omega with 3 straps, inc 100l tanks
Yes you have... My saloon ;)
If you read COP11 it comes down to the width of the bands. Technically speaking 30mm bands you only need 2. Any narrower and you need 3. I think this guy is being a bit of a stickler but he looked under the bonnet and was happy with what he saw. When I go back I'll print off a copy of the COP11 and if he tries to pick it up again on anything daft I'll wave it under his nose. Thing is I bet if I go some where else they'll just pick it up on something else. I guess it's a bit like MOt's you never know what the testers like. Where I go for them everybody complains the MOT guy is a right B'stard but I get on really well with him.
That's unlucky but, at the end of the day, it's your own fault as you had COP 11 to read ::)
But I will apologise as I should have highlighted it for you :-[
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New straps turned up. New straps sent back. I ordered the wrong ones :-[ :-[
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New straps turned up. New straps sent back. I ordered the wrong ones :-[ :-[
Oppps ;D
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Now have right straps. Have some concerns. I asked Tinley what was required for an in boot tank and they said two straps 32mm wide. Which is what I've got. Now the tester said he wanted 3 straps possibly 4. Do you get the feeling he's being a pain in the arse?
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The Company that did my Inspection were very nit-picky imo but my boot tank (90ltr) has only two 32mm straps and these weren't even commented on as they are the 'Industry Standard' for that size cylinder, so yes, I would say your bloke is being a PITA unnecessarily! ???
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Now have right straps. Have some concerns. I asked Tinley what was required for an in boot tank and they said two straps 32mm wide. Which is what I've got. Now the tester said he wanted 3 straps possibly 4. Do you get the feeling he's being a pain in the arse?
Not got COP on my phone but off the top of my head the requirement is 2 of 30mm minimum or 3 of 20mm minimum. Take the table along and if he gets funny then wave it at him ;) I did on a few points when mine was inspected ::) But they don't like being told they should look more closely at their own standard of work before trying to incorrectly pick holes in mine :-X ::) :D
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Right straps done. Now a little question for ya. When the car flicks to gas the temp gauge in the car is normally around the 55 mark. It's fine while driving but when I come to a stop the engine hunts on idle by around 500 RPM. Now it will keep doing this till the engine reaches around the 80 mark on the temp gauge. Any ideas?
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They do tend to do that on this kit. I think Kev suspected the injectors range of performance, but not sure.
Mine is the same anyway. I haven't bothered to look into it any further. Tbh.
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It hunts on petrol too, but not as noticeable ;)
Only real solution is to up the swtchover temp or live with it :y
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I'll live with it then :y Right hopefully the final question. What does the certificate look like now? Is it just an on line registry? Or do I still get a paper version? My insurance company weren't very helpful they didn't seem to understand what was required ::)
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if it hunts on idle then check all your vacuum pipes, you have a leak.
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Pipework all good. Doesn't hunt on petrol and only hunts on gas while it warms up.
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fairy muff,mine hunted on both,but barely noticeable on petrol,found two leaks and now idles perfectly :y
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I'll live with it then :y Right hopefully the final question. What does the certificate look like now? Is it just an on line registry? Or do I still get a paper version? My insurance company weren't very helpful they didn't seem to understand what was required ::)
No Certificate per se nowadays Doz, the Installer/ Inspector does it all by Computer. Mine gave me a letterheaded confirmation in case my Insurer asked for it. It stated that on such & such a date, the vehicle had complied with the Regulations and been accepted onto the UKlpg register. I should imagine your chap will/should do the same :y
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Cheers. Is there any where you can look up the car on the database?
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Cheers. Is there any where you can look up the car on the database?
[/highlight]
Yep! :y
http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/
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Ta very muchy :)
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11 o clock Friday (tomorrow) I'll let you lot know by 1. If you don't hear from me tell my dog I do love him :o :o. Mapping isn't quite right still but I do need an experienced hand to hold to finish it off. I've got it cock on from idle to 3k RPM. Then it plays about till about 4.8k RPM then it goes like a greased rat up a drain pipe till the red line. It's better at smaller throttle openings and mustard at WOT it's just the last third of the throttle when above 3k.
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Right, What a work up. As expected it failed. Inspector was very picky but also very very helpful. So things he didn't like.
Tank mounting bolts. I used 30 mm washer as per the code. However they weren't 1.5 mm thick. He wanted me to use load distributor bars. Mounting bolts for the straps were very very close to the tank. He wanted me to put some rubber between the frame and the tank. Boot on back of filler, I had zippy tied it. My bad don't know what I was thinking. Gas ECU mounting, not substantial and to low. Gas injector wires running across plenum, Wanted extra protection in case they rubbed threw. So as you can see nothing major but still a bit of ballsache. I got the load spreaders from him and an old inner tube to use for the frame to tank. Legged it home and put it right and at 5 PM it passed.
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
I have to thank everybody on here for all the help. I couldn't of done it without you guys. Sometimes it was only the cool heads in here which stopped me from throwing it in and selling the car part finished. Now after a final mapping I can say it is finally finished. Paul your knowledge is second to none and I couldn't of done it without your telephone hot wire service!!!! Kev. Thanks so much for drilling my manifold. If it had been left to me it would of gone Pete Tong I'm sure. Al. For coming round with his kit and showing me all the connections so I could see what the theory actually looked like. And to all the rest of you who helped in all manner of ways even down to the piss taking. I salute you all :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y
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Excellent news Doz! :y
Now put the first quid you save on lpg on a Lottery ticket..................you'll soon come back down to earth!!!! ;D :y
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Brilliant news :y
My first conversion, as regulars will remember, was also a saga - possibly moreso than yours - but thats all forgotten about now.
Enjoy. And save.
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Result 8)
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Excellent news... Pleased it passed :y :y
Not sure what he was going on about with the ECU mounting... Nothing about it in the regulations at all ::) ::)
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Brilliant Dave, well done :y
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Sorry to drag this one up again :)
I'm fitting lpg to a 3.2 omega from a 3.0 will there be any problems eg wire changes will it just plug and play?
3.0 was 2000 plate
3.2 2003 plate
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The petrol ECU wiring between 3.0 and 3.2 is very different but it's all covered in the guides. Other than that, should be the same. :y
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Thanks Kevin, wish me luck.... ;)
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Biggest problem, assuming it's the BRC kit, will be software and lead for the setup.
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313&_nkw=brc+lpg&_sacat=0&_from=R40 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313&_nkw=brc+lpg&_sacat=0&_from=R40)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRC-Sequent-24-Seq24-Seq24my07-LPG-GPL-CNG-Programming-Interface-Tuning-Kit-/370555725709?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Other_Vehicle_Parts_Accessories_ET&hash=item5646d7a78d (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRC-Sequent-24-Seq24-Seq24my07-LPG-GPL-CNG-Programming-Interface-Tuning-Kit-/370555725709?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Other_Vehicle_Parts_Accessories_ET&hash=item5646d7a78d)
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Mine is BRC Sequent 56 but would that one still work?
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-USB-BRC-SEQUENT-AUTOGAS-LPG-DIAGNOSTIC-INTERFACE-HI-QUALITY-/121076314936?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item1c30b5f338 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-USB-BRC-SEQUENT-AUTOGAS-LPG-DIAGNOSTIC-INTERFACE-HI-QUALITY-/121076314936?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item1c30b5f338)
This one appears to
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The Stag lead will probably connect it but the software is normally locked down and needs a dongle to give full connectivity
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Mine is BRC Sequent 56 but would that one still work?
The BRC Sequent 56 installation files come in 3 parts, the 3rd part covers software ... you might find this useful .. then again you might not .. :)
http://www.brc-gas.su/UserFiles/File/docs/3.3%20SQ56%20GPL.pdf
The first 2 parts are here ..
http://www.remixbg.com/Documentation/Documents/Gazovi%20uredbi/BRC/SEQUENT%20Plug%20&%20Drive/Manuale_Seq_Instal_1_3_en.pdf
http://www.brc-gas.su/UserFiles/File/komplekt56.pdf
For some reason I can never find one site with all 3 !! I have saved to harddrive for my reference :)
Mine has never been recalibrated since installation 5 years ago !!! They plug the box in at service time and tell me all is still good .. :)
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Thank you Entwood!
Now would it be better to remove wire loom from car and sit down indoor sorting joins etc...
Or take loom etc to anexpert and pay them.... Then plug it all in once back.
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That depends how much you love wiring ::)
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That depends how much you love wiring ::)
Not at all ::)