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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 13 February 2013, 23:28:06

Title: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Nickbat on 13 February 2013, 23:28:06
This should be a wake-up call to all those who say that UKIP is just a home for right-wing single-policy nutjobs.

http://nigelfaragemep.co.uk/pages/posts/daughter-of-labour-chairman-joins-ukip-238.php (http://nigelfaragemep.co.uk/pages/posts/daughter-of-labour-chairman-joins-ukip-238.php)

The Lib-Lab-Con political mould is being broken. We need fresh start IMHO.

Good news!  :y :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: albitz on 13 February 2013, 23:59:41
Love it. :y ;D
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Vamps on 14 February 2013, 00:32:47
Love it. :y ;D

+1.... :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Rods2 on 14 February 2013, 00:40:24
Excellent and may there be many more.  :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: albitz on 14 February 2013, 00:44:32
What we really need is one or two disaffected Tory MP,s to jump ship.That could start an exodus. :)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 14 February 2013, 00:46:06
A LimpDem or two would be amusing.  :)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: albitz on 14 February 2013, 01:06:49
They are Europhiles,cant see it happening unless it got to the point where it was a distinct election advantage.Then they would be joining up in their droves. ;) ;D
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Kevin Wood on 14 February 2013, 09:46:54
They are Europhiles,cant see it happening unless it got to the point where it was a distinct election advantage.Then they would be joining up in their droves. ;) ;D

Exactly. Anything else would be serving the people, and not themselves. ::)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: cleggy on 14 February 2013, 10:38:45
They are Europhiles,cant see it happening unless it got to the point where it was a distinct election advantage.Then they would be joining up in their droves. ;) ;D

Exactly. Anything else would be serving the people, and not themselves. ::)

Many a true word... :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: TheBoy on 14 February 2013, 11:20:20
Everyone should be entitled to their own political opinion. OK, I know some on OOF disagree, but thats another matter  :-X

So, remind me, where is the story here? Somebody who we've never heard of joins the current protest party, and its big news for said protest party? Are they that short of members that they have to cream their jeans over every new member?


//TB wanders off to find a brick wall to give himself a headache
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Nickbat on 14 February 2013, 11:28:05
Everyone should be entitled to their own political opinion. OK, I know some on OOF disagree, but thats another matter  :-X

So, remind me, where is the story here? Somebody who we've never heard of joins the current protest party, and its big news for said protest party? Are they that short of members that they have to cream their jeans over every new member?


//TB wanders off to find a brick wall to give himself a headache

The story is that a new party is attracting members from across the political spectrum rather than from one other party. This is important, in my view, as it reflects the general discontent with the prevailing 3-party cohort, which many see as indistinguishable in their policies. With Eastleigh coming up, these are interesting times for those of us OOF members who are interested in politics and the future of our country.  :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: TheBoy on 14 February 2013, 12:12:56
Everyone should be entitled to their own political opinion. OK, I know some on OOF disagree, but thats another matter  :-X

So, remind me, where is the story here? Somebody who we've never heard of joins the current protest party, and its big news for said protest party? Are they that short of members that they have to cream their jeans over every new member?


//TB wanders off to find a brick wall to give himself a headache

The story is that a new party is attracting members from across the political spectrum rather than from one other party. This is important, in my view, as it reflects the general discontent with the prevailing 3-party cohort, which many see as indistinguishable in their policies. With Eastleigh coming up, these are interesting times for those of us OOF members who are interested in politics and the future of our country.  :y
I'm sure the Tories, Labour, and the InBetweeners could equally find instances of people leaving the current protest party, and joining their ranks?

I fail to see the significance of the story.  At the end of the day, surely a party is about policies - although I trust Farage as far as I trust Milliband, Cameron and Clegg when it comes to making good on policies and promises - not about who a member's daddy is  ???
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Del Boy on 14 February 2013, 12:51:30
Well at least someone realises Ashford is full of migrants  ;D.
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 14 February 2013, 14:45:44
Well at least someone realises Ashford is full of migrants  ;D.

But the migrants Del she talks about are mostly Nepalese, who are the families or relatives of the Gurkha's, those brave soldiers who have long fought within the ranks of the British Army, and who are based at Shorncliffe near Folkestone, Kent.  That unit of fighting men have won no less than 13 Victoria Cross's since they have been with the British Army.

Now how can we not accept those "migrants" as part of our community?  We have "used" them long enough, with their outstanding loyalty shinning above a lot of the locals down here!  We wanted them, and still do, so do we say "no" to people who are hard working (often in security positions), very quiet and community minded, with a wonderful culture that includes the men walking a few paces behind their women to protect them?

They are not the problem, it is others who are!

This young women who is joining the UKIP seems to be joining for wrong, and blinkered, reasons, and not to tackle the major problems this country faces. ;)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: STMO123 on 14 February 2013, 15:09:44
I think you mean immigrants, not migrants.
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 14 February 2013, 15:14:06
I think you mean immigrants, not migrants.

No Steve, in the article she talks about miggrants, so I thought I would just copy for fun instead of using the correct immigrants!

Trust you to spot it! ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: STMO123 on 14 February 2013, 15:32:10
We have migg rants on here now and again.
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 14 February 2013, 15:45:14
We have migg rants on here now and again.

Oh very witty that man! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: feeutfo on 14 February 2013, 15:48:19
As someone who knows nothing about spelling, I feel fully qualified to say, we should be careful, there a plenty of miggrants on here. :D

Bah, missed page two. ;D
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Del Boy on 14 February 2013, 15:57:49
Well at least someone realises Ashford is full of migrants  ;D.

But the migrants Del she talks about are mostly Nepalese, who are the families or relatives of the Gurkha's, those brave soldiers who have long fought within the ranks of the British Army, and who are based at Shorncliffe near Folkestone, Kent.  That unit of fighting men have won no less than 13 Victoria Cross's since they have been with the British Army.

Now how can we not accept those "migrants" as part of our community?  We have "used" them long enough, with their outstanding loyalty shinning above a lot of the locals down here!  We wanted them, and still do, so do we say "no" to people who are hard working (often in security positions), very quiet and community minded, with a wonderful culture that includes the men walking a few paces behind their women to protect them?

They are not the problem, it is others who are!

This young women who is joining the UKIP seems to be joining for wrong, and blinkered, reasons, and not to tackle the major problems this country faces. ;)

I never said anything about Gurkha's nor even mentioned Gurkha's? I'm all for them staying here. Us using them though is a different matter, they don't have to sign up if they don't want too, it's their choice.
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 14 February 2013, 16:01:41
Well at least someone realises Ashford is full of migrants  ;D.

But the migrants Del she talks about are mostly Nepalese, who are the families or relatives of the Gurkha's, those brave soldiers who have long fought within the ranks of the British Army, and who are based at Shorncliffe near Folkestone, Kent.  That unit of fighting men have won no less than 13 Victoria Cross's since they have been with the British Army.

Now how can we not accept those "migrants" as part of our community?  We have "used" them long enough, with their outstanding loyalty shinning above a lot of the locals down here!  We wanted them, and still do, so do we say "no" to people who are hard working (often in security positions), very quiet and community minded, with a wonderful culture that includes the men walking a few paces behind their women to protect them?

They are not the problem, it is others who are!

This young women who is joining the UKIP seems to be joining for wrong, and blinkered, reasons, and not to tackle the major problems this country faces. ;)

I never said anything about Gurkha's nor even mentioned Gurkha's? I'm all for them staying here. Us using them though is a different matter, they don't have to sign up if they don't want too, it's their choice.

I know you didn't Del :y :y :y

But when you, or I, mention immigrants in Ashford it is the Nepalese that usually come to mind as on my observations they are in the great majority ;) ;)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Nickbat on 20 February 2013, 15:05:38
Now the former LibDem Mayor of Eastleigh has joined UKIP!  :y :y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I4-527kvOaI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I4-527kvOaI)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: jerry on 20 February 2013, 17:58:40
Dont like much of what UKIP stands for but the Labour Party and (to a lesser extent) Lib dems and Tories have no-one to blame but themselves as for far too long they have ignored the genuine concerns of vast swathes of the voting population either because they were too PC and thought they knew best (Labour/New labour) or else felt that, as most of these concerns did not directly concern them personally, then they could be ignored and they could just continue making the money stay in the hands of the few whilst making placating statements along the lines of The Big Society. (Think that would be the Conservative party). UKIP has then naturally swollen its ranks with dissaffected members of other parties. Fair enough. My concerns would be that all this masks to an extent the more right wing and less palatable views within UKIP
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Nickbat on 20 February 2013, 18:47:34
Dont like much of what UKIP stands for but the Labour Party and (to a lesser extent) Lib dems and Tories have no-one to blame but themselves as for far too long they have ignored the genuine concerns of vast swathes of the voting population either because they were too PC and thought they knew best (Labour/New labour) or else felt that, as most of these concerns did not directly concern them personally, then they could be ignored and they could just continue making the money stay in the hands of the few whilst making placating statements along the lines of The Big Society. (Think that would be the Conservative party). UKIP has then naturally swollen its ranks with dissaffected members of other parties. Fair enough. My concerns would be that all this masks to an extent the more right wing and less palatable views within UKIP

I don't know of any. Pray tell.  ???
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: albitz on 20 February 2013, 18:53:27
Whats wrong with right wing views ?  ???

I mean,its very obvious to most sensible people whats wrong with left wing views,but...... :D
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 20 February 2013, 18:54:16
Dont like much of what UKIP stands for but the Labour Party and (to a lesser extent) Lib dems and Tories have no-one to blame but themselves as for far too long they have ignored the genuine concerns of vast swathes of the voting population either because they were too PC and thought they knew best (Labour/New labour) or else felt that, as most of these concerns did not directly concern them personally, then they could be ignored and they could just continue making the money stay in the hands of the few whilst making placating statements along the lines of The Big Society. (Think that would be the Conservative party). UKIP has then naturally swollen its ranks with dissaffected members of other parties. Fair enough. My concerns would be that all this masks to an extent the more right wing and less palatable views within UKIP

I don't know of any. Pray tell.  ???

I will not comment on this other than to show a link to a New Statesmen article; make up your own minds.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

 :y :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: STMO123 on 20 February 2013, 19:06:07
Only 20 things that annoy people. I'll compile a list and get it off to Nige. That will give him plenty of ammo for his manifesto.
Mine won't be just right-wing, they'll be downright racist and homophobic too.
Probably xenophobic as well. :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: albitz on 20 February 2013, 19:06:28
But The New Statesman is a very left wing rag with a circulation figure of around 4000 and falling. Its like the Gaurdian for people who cant really read. ::)
The left have long ago branded anyone who has misgivings about mass uncontrolled immigration or anything to do with the EU as small minded bigots.
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Nickbat on 20 February 2013, 19:16:59
But The New Statesman is a very left wing rag with a circulation figure of around 4000 and falling. Its like the Gaurdian for people who cant really read. ::)
The left have long ago branded anyone who has misgivings about mass uncontrolled immigration or anything to do with the EU as small minded bigots.

Yes, Alex Andreou's a leftie – with the hump, since he is a Greek immigrant who does not have a vote in the General Election and is dead scared with might leave the EU: ;) ;D

http://www.politicus.org.uk/news/who-will-speak-up-for-europeans-living-in-britain-alex-andreou_1655 (http://www.politicus.org.uk/news/who-will-speak-up-for-europeans-living-in-britain-alex-andreou_1655)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 20 February 2013, 23:15:13
Politics really is not my thing. Maybe down to me not being clever enough to understand the jargon they use.
However it does seem strange to see people leaving the bigger parties to join smaller ones. Cohld it be ghe bigger fish are getting as fed up as us smaller fish?
As for the Gurkas.  For them its an honour to serve in the British Army,  I personally am honoured they serve in our Army. Lovely people and tough bastards too. Do I think there close family should be welcomed? Yes but not aunties,  uncles, uncle Tom's second cousin etc....
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 21 February 2013, 01:01:58
A LimpDem or two would be amusing.  :)

Now what was I saying about LimpDems.....   :)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 21 February 2013, 16:25:19
Today I attended an outpatients appointment at a first class hospital.

The nurse was Polish, the Staff Nurse Hungarian (or at least her parents were when they first moved here) and the doctor Yugoslavian.

Wonderfully polite, helpful, well spoken English and obviously very knowledgeable. Working for the NHS, and how could we do without these new British, like so many other professionals we meet?

Good for the country and us? Yes!!

These are the immigrants that have made Britain Great in the past and are still doing so.

I will say no more :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X ;)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Nickbat on 21 February 2013, 16:37:23
Today I attended an outpatients appointment at a first class hospital.

The nurse was Polish, the Staff Nurse Hungarian (or at least her parents were when they first moved here) and the doctor Yugoslavian.

Wonderfully polite, helpful, well spoken English and obviously very knowledgeable. Working for the NHS, and how could we do without these new British, like so many other professionals we meet?

Good for the country and us? Yes!!

These are the immigrants that have made Britain Great in the past and are still doing so.

I will say no more :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X ;)

Good for you, Lizzie, but I can't see what this has to do with the thread.  ???
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 21 February 2013, 16:51:14
Today I attended an outpatients appointment at a first class hospital.

The nurse was Polish, the Staff Nurse Hungarian (or at least her parents were when they first moved here) and the doctor Yugoslavian.

Wonderfully polite, helpful, well spoken English and obviously very knowledgeable. Working for the NHS, and how could we do without these new British, like so many other professionals we meet?

Good for the country and us? Yes!!

These are the immigrants that have made Britain Great in the past and are still doing so.

I will say no more :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X ;)

Good for you, Lizzie, but I can't see what this has to do with the thread.  ???

You don't?! :o :o :o :o :o

UKIP - Racist, right wing aims in question?

As earlier posted:
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

It is not just about Europe - if it was I would be thoroughly voting UKIP - it goes a lot deeper and those clouds of doubt need addressing.

This is a thread about UKIP in essence.  I am making a point about immigration that seems to drive some on the OOF, and is a factor with the Daughter being discussed ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: albitz on 21 February 2013, 16:58:22
I am very much against the mass uncontrolled immigration which was forced upon this country for despicable reasons in the last 10 years or so.
I am NOT a racist.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Nickbat on 21 February 2013, 16:59:23
Today I attended an outpatients appointment at a first class hospital.

The nurse was Polish, the Staff Nurse Hungarian (or at least her parents were when they first moved here) and the doctor Yugoslavian.

Wonderfully polite, helpful, well spoken English and obviously very knowledgeable. Working for the NHS, and how could we do without these new British, like so many other professionals we meet?

Good for the country and us? Yes!!

These are the immigrants that have made Britain Great in the past and are still doing so.

I will say no more :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X ;)

Good for you, Lizzie, but I can't see what this has to do with the thread.  ???

You don't?! :o :o :o :o :o

UKIP - Racist, right wing aims in question?

As earlier posted:
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

It is not just about Europe - if it was I would be thoroughly voting UKIP - it goes a lot deeper and those clouds of doubt need addressing.

This is a thread about UKIP in essence.  I am making a point about immigration that seems to drive some on the OOF, and is a factor with the Daughter being discussed ;) ;) ;)

Oh, you mean these racists:

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/v6nick/UKIPCroydon.jpg)

..and Nigel Farage is married to a German, Marta Andreasen (UKIP MEP) is an Argentine-born Spanish accountant

..and I'm married to a European, now a UK citizen.

Yep, we're all racists, Lizzie.

Sheesh.  ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Nickbat on 21 February 2013, 17:05:58
..and this is just in from the vice-chairman of your beloved Conservative party

http://order-order.com/2013/02/21/great-questions-of-our-time/ (http://order-order.com/2013/02/21/great-questions-of-our-time/)

Very statesmanlike, I must say.  ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 21 February 2013, 17:06:52
Today I attended an outpatients appointment at a first class hospital.

The nurse was Polish, the Staff Nurse Hungarian (or at least her parents were when they first moved here) and the doctor Yugoslavian.

Wonderfully polite, helpful, well spoken English and obviously very knowledgeable. Working for the NHS, and how could we do without these new British, like so many other professionals we meet?

Good for the country and us? Yes!!

These are the immigrants that have made Britain Great in the past and are still doing so.

I will say no more :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X ;)

Good for you, Lizzie, but I can't see what this has to do with the thread.  ???

You don't?! :o :o :o :o :o

UKIP - Racist, right wing aims in question?

As earlier posted:
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

It is not just about Europe - if it was I would be thoroughly voting UKIP - it goes a lot deeper and those clouds of doubt need addressing.

This is a thread about UKIP in essence.  I am making a point about immigration that seems to drive some on the OOF, and is a factor with the Daughter being discussed ;) ;) ;)

Oh, you mean these racists:

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n270/v6nick/UKIPCroydon.jpg)

..and Nigel Farage is married to a German, Marta Andreasen (UKIP MEP) is an Argentine-born Spanish accountant

..and I'm married to a European, now a UK citizen.

Yep, we're all racists, Lizzie.

Sheesh.  ::) ::) ::) ::)

No, and you know I didn't mean that!!  You know fully about the threads / posts there have been on the OOF about the negatives concerning immigrants ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

For information what an individual has as friends does not always reflect their actual feelings i.e. Hitler once had many friends who were Jewish!! ::) ::) ::) 

If you are keeping such a close interest in UKIP you will know that some of that party have shown their colours by expressing views that are certainly not liberal, and have caused much concern about what UKIP is all about.  Just because a daughter of the Labour Party joins UKIP does not allay those concerns. ;) ;)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 21 February 2013, 17:08:05
..and this is just in from the vice-chairman of your beloved Conservative party

http://order-order.com/2013/02/21/great-questions-of-our-time/ (http://order-order.com/2013/02/21/great-questions-of-our-time/)

Very statesmanlike, I must say.  ::) ::) ::) ::)

What does that prove or mean?  It is fake and what is said is mad. ::) ::) ;)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Nickbat on 21 February 2013, 17:12:36
No, and you know I didn't mean that!!  You know fully about the threads / posts there have been on the OOF about the negatives concerning immigrants ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

For information what an individual has as friends does not always reflect their actual feelings i.e. Hitler once had many friends who were Jewish!! ::) ::) ::) 

If you are keeping such a close interest in UKIP you will know that some of that party have shown their colours by expressing views that are certainly not liberal, and have caused much concern about what UKIP is all about.  Just because a daughter of the Labour Party joins UKIP does not allay those concerns. ;) ;)

Are you talking about current officials of UKIP? If so, I love to see links to the quotes.

But maybe you're talking about UKIP supporters, I don't know, but I'd still like to see the evidence. Of course, all Tory supporters are very liberal, aren't they?  ::)

Or does your "evidence" just come from rumours in articles written by part-time hacks in The Guardian?  ???
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Nickbat on 21 February 2013, 17:19:19
..and this is just in from the vice-chairman of your beloved Conservative party

http://order-order.com/2013/02/21/great-questions-of-our-time/ (http://order-order.com/2013/02/21/great-questions-of-our-time/)

Very statesmanlike, I must say.  ::) ::) ::) ::)

What does that prove or mean? It is fake and what is said is mad. ::) ::) ;)

No it isn't fake, he had previously tweeted about a Big Mac being soft, but then thought it funny to make the "suck-job" tweet. Fine if your in a bar or amongst friends, but rather thoughtless in his position. Couldn't imagine a REAL Conservative like Norman Tebbit doing something like that. Times have obviously changed in the Tory party and they feel they have to pander to the Eastenders-type audience.
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 21 February 2013, 17:33:40


I know how you love links Nick so:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jakewallissimons/100197312/after-a-public-row-about-same-sex-marriage-ukip-have-gone-from-smug-to-scared/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/dec/15/nigel-farage-ukip-anti-gay-groups

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/another-ukip-public-figure-leaves-party-amid-same-sex-marriage-row-8448179.html

and of course:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

For us the UK voters we must be sure of UKIP and their TRUE policies and establish what is true or not, but the connections with European far right parties is very concerning, as is his refusal to block European funding for the BNP in Britain.

Many Germans were fooled by Hitler in thinking his policies were all sweetness and light and would do so much good for the German people.  To start with that was true......................history records what happened next.

I know Nick, of course I do, that certain people may spread anti UKIP propaganda, but that part is far from transparent and we the British public do not know the whole truth.  We must establish that before we start voting UKIP. ;) ;)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Terbs on 21 February 2013, 17:45:21
I am very much against the mass uncontrolled immigration which was forced upon this country for despicable reasons in the last 10 years or so.
I am NOT a racist.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

Albs, Albs, Albs.....have you not learnt yet.. :( :(

You are not allowed an opinion......
If you like or vote UKIP.....you are a rascist...
If you are against immigration.....you are a rascist...
If you don't vote Tory, Lab or Lib Dem.....you are a rascist......
If you don't believe in Foreign Aid....you are a rascist.....
If you don't believe in Europe.....you are a rascist.....
If you believe in housing local people first....you are a rascist....

You have to be a rascist, Albs, because you don't have the same opinion as others, you are not allowed to have a different opinion.

Its so simple, mate :y

Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 21 February 2013, 17:48:15
In case some do not want to wade through the New Statesman article, I enter below a section from it on UKIP and far right parties.  Also note the comment by Alan Sked, the founder of UKIP from an  earlier party AFL, which is quoted elsewhere away from the New Statesmen piece:

"Links with European far-right parties
Ukip is part of the group Europe of Freedom and Democracy (EFD). The group includes representatives of the Danish People’s Party, the True Finns Party, the Dutch SGP and the infamous Italian Lega Nord – all of them far-right. Nigel Farage is co-President of the group along with Lega Nord’s Francesco Speroni, who described multiple murderer Anders Breivik as someone whose “ideas are in defence of western civilisation."

Mario Borghezio, another member of the group, declared in a radio interview that Breivik had some "excellent" ideas. Farage’s reaction was to write a strongly-worded letter to Borghezio, asking him to withdraw his comments or Ukip would pull out of the EFD. Borghezio not only did not apologise, but responded with an extraordinary speech in which he raged: "Long live the Whites of Europe, long live our identity, our ethnicity, our race… our blue sky, like the eyes of our women. Blue, in a people who want to stay white."

Nigel Farage did not withdraw from the EFD. He continues to co-preside over it, along with the leader of the Lega Nord. MEP Nikki Sinclaire, however, was expelled from Ukip for refusing to take part in the EFD because of their “extreme views”.

Links with domestic far-right parties
“Ukip has no links to the BNP,” explained Farage in 2007. The first line of any description of Ukip calls it “a libertarian, non-racist party”. What party, other than one skating close to the lines of taste and decency, needs to describe itself as “non-racist”? Farage boasted on The Andrew Marr Show (20 January 2013) that “Ukip is the only UK party to explicitly ban BNP members from joining”. What party, other than a party whose policies are attractive to such organisations, would need to do that?

Christopher Monckton, their Scotland Leader and Head of Policy Unit invited the now-defunct British Freedom Party – an amalgamation of mostly breakaway BNP members led by a former Ukip candidate until January 2013 – to join Ukip: “I would very much like them to come back and join us and we stand together.” Ukip’s excuse for this lapse? Monckton had been away on a tour of the US and was not up to speed with current policy. More recently, however, Farage refused to vote to oppose moves for the European Union to fund the BNP.

The founder of the party, Alan Sked, says it has become "extraordinarily right-wing" and is now devoted to "creating a fuss, via Islam and immigrants”.

Food for consideration at least. :y :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 21 February 2013, 18:14:29
I am very much against the mass uncontrolled immigration which was forced upon this country for despicable reasons in the last 10 years or so.
I am NOT a racist.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

Albs, Albs, Albs.....have you not learnt yet.. :( :(

You are not allowed an opinion......
If you like or vote UKIP.....you are a rascist...
If you are against immigration.....you are a rascist...
If you don't vote Tory, Lab or Lib Dem.....you are a rascist......
If you don't believe in Foreign Aid....you are a rascist.....
If you don't believe in Europe.....you are a rascist.....
If you believe in housing local people first....you are a rascist....

You have to be a rascist, Albs, because you don't have the same opinion as others, you are not allowed to have a different opinion.

Its so simple, mate :y

No Terbert! ::) ::) ::)  You are allowed an opinion. We all are in this democracy of ours.  It is our right to question the policies of all political parties, including UKIP which happens to be the subject of this thread.

There are questions to be answered by that party, and just because I and others wish to ask questions does not mean we think all those that support that party are the things you have stated.  They are issues we need answers to, as, and I am careful how often I draw this parallel with history, but many Germans who did not support the Nazis were considered eventually anti-state and enemies of it.  That is because Hitler dismantled the democratic system within a year of taking power shortly after noon on January 30th 1933, because the German people gave Hitler the opportunity to do so as they were either totally compliant or they were too afraid to do anything else but go along with it. Before you say "Lizzie, so you think UKIP is a bunch of Nazis"; NO, I do not. However as I keep on saying, we all must be very careful about what we wish for; we must ensure a new party that UKIP is does become fully transparent and we know exactly what their policies are, and, very importantly, how they align themselves with other European parties, especially if involving far right parties that is being suggested in political circles, along with indications that could be the case.

Control who comes into the country - YES!;  Control, or eradicate, the powers of the EU - YES!; Question Foreign Aid? - YES!; Vote for any party you wish to take power - YES!; Rid ourselves of all terrorist threats by ANY group - YES!; but for goodness sake before we do let's check those facts.  There ARE right wing racists out there, such as the BNP and EDL, so please do not by default hand them power.  It is not the way Great Britain's future should go.

I hope now everyone understands at least my position, which is very transparent!  :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Nickbat on 21 February 2013, 18:27:18
I had a brief look through some of those links, Lizzie. Much of it is slur and "guilt by association" stuff. The EFD is primarily a Eurosceptic grouping and, given that the majority of MEPs are very much pro-Europe, it seems not unreasonable to me to group with others in EU debates who share a similar views on the growing EU superstate. It doesn't mean you have to agree with their domestic policies.

You said: Ukip is the only UK party to explicitly ban BNP members from joining”. What party, other than a party whose policies are attractive to such organisations, would need to do that?
UKIP is the only party that favours controls on immigration. Thus, it is bound to receive attention from those who would support BNP. There is always overlap in party policies. However, the BNP is far-LEFT in its views (wanting state control over many areas).

You said: More recently, however, Farage refused to vote to oppose moves for the European Union to fund the BNP.
I would too. No matter how odious the BNP is, it sets a very dangerous precedent to refuse funding merely because you don't like their policies. First they came for the BNP, then they came for UKIP, etc..

There are some odious creeps in the Conservative Party, The Labour Party and the Liberal Democrat Party, why should UKIP be any different? The point is that UKIP is clearly not racist in its policies and attracts people of many different races and religions.

Immigration MUST be controlled and I find it irritating that as soon as the subject is brought up, the old racist card is brought out yet again... ::) ::)   
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 21 February 2013, 18:32:19
I had a brief look through some of those links, Lizzie. Much of it is slur and "guilt by association" stuff. The EFD is primarily a Eurosceptic grouping and, given that the majority of MEPs are very much pro-Europe, it seems not unreasonable to me to group with others in EU debates who share a similar views on the growing EU superstate. It doesn't mean you have to agree with their domestic policies.

You said: Ukip is the only UK party to explicitly ban BNP members from joining”. What party, other than a party whose policies are attractive to such organisations, would need to do that?
UKIP is the only party that favours controls on immigration. Thus, it is bound to receive attention from those who would support BNP. There is always overlap in party policies. However, the BNP is far-LEFT in its views (wanting state control over many areas).

You said: More recently, however, Farage refused to vote to oppose moves for the European Union to fund the BNP.
I would too. No matter how odious the BNP is, it sets a very dangerous precedent to refuse funding merely because you don't like their policies. First they came for the BNP, then they came for UKIP, etc..

There are some odious creeps in the Conservative Party, The Labour Party and the Liberal Democrat Party, why should UKIP be any different? The point is that UKIP is clearly not racist in its policies and attracts people of many different races and religions.

Immigration MUST be controlled and I find it irritating that as soon as the subject is brought up, the old racist card is brought out yet again... ::) ::)

Please read my post to Terbert. ;) ;)

Yes, I agree the amount of people coming into this country MUST be controlled as you say. But those right wing links around Europe is disturbing until Farage clearly states and proves what his party's position really is.  Transparency is what we now need Nick. :y :y :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Terbs on 21 February 2013, 18:32:50
Why oh why does the subject of stopping immigration bring up the Nazi' thing.

I don't give a stuff about what has gone....That is the past.....

I see 'in my eyes', what is happening in this country, stuff all the political parties  vote for who you like.....

I believe immigration should be stopped.......so if I say anything other than that statement, I become a rascist...end off :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: STMO123 on 21 February 2013, 18:34:07
As I've said before on here, most 'normal' people are ( a bit) racist. Human nature/self preservation.
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Terbs on 21 February 2013, 18:37:08
As I've said before on here, most 'normal' people are ( a bit) racist. Human nature/self preservation.

That statement, my friend, is about the trueist thing said on here :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Nickbat on 21 February 2013, 18:40:24
Yes, I agree the amount of people coming into this country MUST be controlled as you say. But those right wing links around Europe is disturbing until Farage clearly states and proves what his party's position really is.  Transparency is what we now need Nick. :y :y :y

• The tide of mass EU immigration has pushed down wages and restricted job opportunities.  Only by leaving the EU can we regain control of our borders.

• Freeze permanent immigration for 5 years. Immigrants must be fluent in English, have minimum education levels and show they can financially support themselves.

• Bring in a points based visa system and time limited work permits.

http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/2553-what-we-stand-for (http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/2553-what-we-stand-for)

Seems reasonable to me. :y

Of course it is impossible for any party to "prove" anything until they are in a position to implement their manifesto, so I don't understand that part of your post. ??? 
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 21 February 2013, 18:42:00
Why oh why does the subject of stopping immigration bring up the Nazi' thing.

I don't give a stuff about what has gone....That is the past.....

I see 'in my eyes', what is happening in this country, stuff all the political parties  vote for who you like.....

I believe immigration should be stopped.......so if I say anything other than that statement, I become a rascist...end off :y

Because that history was the biggest event known to man.  It revolved around ethnic cleansing and favouring one "superhuman" race over the rest of mankind.  To you it may be the past, but in actual fact it is still affecting the social and political situation around the World.  It is still destabilising how we live, and what happens around us.  Europe was a creation that came out of that war, that in turn was a product of the First World War, and before that the Empire Power System that started the whole thing off.  The past effects our future, and we must learn lessons from history to stop terrible events from happening again. We can only do that by understanding what we are getting involved in politically and taking the right action, for us via the ballot box, before events overtake us.  Knee jerk reactions are dangerous, as history proves, so we must take careful decisions via transparent politics. We the people are in charge; make the politicians know that.

Regrettably though there are millions out there who do not care, cannot be bothered, and certainly would never take part in a debate as we enjoy in these threads! :y :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 21 February 2013, 18:47:22
Yes, I agree the amount of people coming into this country MUST be controlled as you say. But those right wing links around Europe is disturbing until Farage clearly states and proves what his party's position really is.  Transparency is what we now need Nick. :y :y :y

• The tide of mass EU immigration has pushed down wages and restricted job opportunities.  Only by leaving the EU can we regain control of our borders.

• Freeze permanent immigration for 5 years. Immigrants must be fluent in English, have minimum education levels and show they can financially support themselves.

• Bring in a points based visa system and time limited work permits.

http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/2553-what-we-stand-for (http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/2553-what-we-stand-for)

Seems reasonable to me. :y

Of course it is impossible for any party to "prove" anything until they are in a position to implement their manifesto, so I don't understand that part of your post. ???

It is not impossible. It is essential that all parties show their full hand, as indeed the established ones have, thus we know their shortcomings. UKIP as the new kids on the block must clearly dispel  the concern over their right wing links and clearly show how apart from them they are.  That is not impossible. Farage could make a clear statement and publically denounce all the right wing groups that he is accused of being associated with, such as the EFD.  Then we can all rest easy. :y :y :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Terbs on 21 February 2013, 18:57:54
Why oh why does the subject of stopping immigration bring up the Nazi' thing.

I don't give a stuff about what has gone....That is the past.....

I see 'in my eyes', what is happening in this country, stuff all the political parties  vote for who you like.....

I believe immigration should be stopped.......so if I say anything other than that statement, I become a rascist...end off :y

Because that history was the biggest event known to man.  It revolved around ethnic cleansing and favouring one "superhuman" race over the rest of mankind.  To you it may be the past, but in actual fact it is still affecting the social and political situation around the World.  It is still destabilising how we live, and what happens around us.  Europe was a creation that came out of that war, that in turn was a product of the First World War, and before that the Empire Power System that started the whole thing off.  The past effects our future, and we must learn lessons from history to stop terrible events from happening again. We can only do that by understanding what we are getting involved in politically and taking the right action, for us via the ballot box, before events overtake us.  Knee jerk reactions are dangerous, as history proves, so we must take careful decisions via transparent politics. We the people are in charge; make the politicians know that.Regrettably though there are millions out there who do not care, cannot be bothered, and certainly would never take part in a debate as we enjoy in these threads! :y :y

Don't take any personal offence at my replies, Lizzie....they are not aimed at you in particular. :y

Now that highlight in itself is a laugh, Lizzie. The population have been trying that since voting began. All the politicians are hell bent on destruction of the masses, as long as it feathers their own nests.
You are lied to whilst they are after your vote, and lied to after they get it. Politics is a select club. What the people of the country want, does not enter into the equation.
As someone posted elsewhere, 'I wish I was young enough to be an anarchist'

The whole shebang at Westminster want sacking/booting out, and a fresh new system installed........but what ???
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 21 February 2013, 19:22:49
Why oh why does the subject of stopping immigration bring up the Nazi' thing.

I don't give a stuff about what has gone....That is the past.....

I see 'in my eyes', what is happening in this country, stuff all the political parties  vote for who you like.....

I believe immigration should be stopped.......so if I say anything other than that statement, I become a rascist...end off :y

Because that history was the biggest event known to man.  It revolved around ethnic cleansing and favouring one "superhuman" race over the rest of mankind.  To you it may be the past, but in actual fact it is still affecting the social and political situation around the World.  It is still destabilising how we live, and what happens around us.  Europe was a creation that came out of that war, that in turn was a product of the First World War, and before that the Empire Power System that started the whole thing off.  The past effects our future, and we must learn lessons from history to stop terrible events from happening again. We can only do that by understanding what we are getting involved in politically and taking the right action, for us via the ballot box, before events overtake us.  Knee jerk reactions are dangerous, as history proves, so we must take careful decisions via transparent politics. We the people are in charge; make the politicians know that.Regrettably though there are millions out there who do not care, cannot be bothered, and certainly would never take part in a debate as we enjoy in these threads! :y :y

Don't take any personal offence at my replies, Lizzie....they are not aimed at you in particular. :y

Now that highlight in itself is a laugh, Lizzie. The population have been trying that since voting began. All the politicians are hell bent on destruction of the masses, as long as it feathers their own nests.
You are lied to whilst they are after your vote, and lied to after they get it. Politics is a select club. What the people of the country want, does not enter into the equation.
As someone posted elsewhere, 'I wish I was young enough to be an anarchist'

The whole shebang at Westminster want sacking/booting out, and a fresh new system installed........but what ???

Don't worry about that!  We are having a good healthy debate amongst friends! It is those that do not discuss politics that worry me!  They are the reason we allow crap politicians into power.  Voting turn-outs are depressingly low, and that does not allow for really good competitive politics.

We, the people, can be in charge if we wish.  You may not like history over played ( ;D ;D) but after Churchill had taken Britain through the war to Victory, the people voted him out in 1945 in favour of the socialist policies of the Labour Party and Clement Attlee in particular. So things can change dramatically if we want; we just have to encourage everyone to fully participate in the democratic system.  Maybe it should become mandatory to vote, but that I know is very controversial.  If we want change though people's attitudes in the UK must change first. :y :y :y

The Chartist indirectly changed the voting system, eventually, and women also got the vote (Hurray!!!!) so we can do it, with commitment and being prepared for a fight by the masses! :y :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Rods2 on 21 February 2013, 22:10:34
Don't worry Lizzie but 2020 unless we leave the EU we will be a province of the EUSSR. Voting will be compulsory and easy. There will be no confusing choice on who to vote for president, just put your cross for the only candidate. "The most worshipful high President Barosso". There will be a full party list of candidates, just put your cross for the Barosso Maoist Party and where they have 100% of the votes they will then pick your representative from the party list. Simples.  :o :o :o :o

It will be very lucky to support the Barosso Maoist Party as they have a good safe life, whereas the dissenters, keep falling of high rise buildings and are bad drivers where they have fatal accidents. If you join the Barosso Maoist Party and become an official you will then get a decent state residence, get your name on the car waiting list and you will be able to afford them from your position of power where you have all those lovely brown envelopes full of Euros, from grateful non-party members that you have helped.  ::) ::) ::) ::)

This is a well proven system that stood a 70 year test of time in the Soviet Union.  :D :D :D :D

Welcome to 1984 2020.  >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: albitz on 21 February 2013, 22:19:36
Racism is often assumed to be something that only happens on the right wing of politics for some reason. Thnkfully George Galloway has reminded us that it also comes from the left. ::)
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/21/anti-semitic-george-galloway-oxford-debate-israeli-student_n_2731009.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cuk%7Cdl17%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D156476
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Nickbat on 21 February 2013, 23:01:06
Racism is often assumed to be something that only happens on the right wing of politics for some reason. Thnkfully George Galloway has reminded us that it also comes from the left. ::)
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/21/anti-semitic-george-galloway-oxford-debate-israeli-student_n_2731009.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cuk%7Cdl17%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D156476

Yes, indeed. His obnoxious behaviour even loses his "allies":

Following George Galloway's dramatic exit from an Oxford University debate, telling the audience "I don't debate with Israelis", a leading Palestinian organisation has issued a press release saying it doesn't condone boycotting individuals "because she or he happens to be Israeli or because they express certain views".

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100203839/has-one-of-george-galloways-political-allies-just-backed-away-from-him/ (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100203839/has-one-of-george-galloways-political-allies-just-backed-away-from-him/)

The man is a complete ar*e. Why people voted for him is a mystery. ::) ::)
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 22 February 2013, 09:52:17
Racism is often assumed to be something that only happens on the right wing of politics for some reason. Thnkfully George Galloway has reminded us that it also comes from the left. ::)
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/21/anti-semitic-george-galloway-oxford-debate-israeli-student_n_2731009.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cuk%7Cdl17%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D156476

Well he is one of politics misfits! ::) ::) ::) :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 22 February 2013, 10:02:41
Don't worry Lizzie but 2020 unless we leave the EU we will be a province of the EUSSR.
  >:( >:( >:( >:(

Not if the British public wake up and vote in numbers for the politicians who really will represent them and give them good, transparent, policies that are for the good of our nation. :y :y :y
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: jerry on 22 February 2013, 10:21:06
whats that old chestnut about politics-the extreme right and the extreme left being much the same? Stalin or Hitler sort of argument. For the record I do not equate having concerns about immigration with being racist. They are two seperate things. That doesnt preclude the fact that there are those who are anti-immigration who are racist of course. More interesting of course is the concept of "racism" itself and what that entails. Is it about skin colour? Is it about religion? Maybe where they were born? Theyre politics perhaps or general "culture"? I personally, as Ive said before on here re similar posts, dont care about the intrinsic attributes of anyone (ie things they cannot change) eg colour of skin/age/sex/sexual orientation/where they were born/physical or mental abilities etc but I do feel that I should be able to challenge things like their personal beliefs inc cultural practices/religion and politics. We all of us have our own sets of preferences and prejudices, likes and dislikes. They are born of either nature or nurture. Some are harmless to others. Some are not. That we should have a right to challenge each others beliefs free from half baked accusations of racism/sexism/ageism/homophobism/transphobism (saw this one in a letter of complaint and loved it so much I include it here  ;D)etc is key.
Title: Re: Daughter of Labour Chairman joins UKIP
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 22 February 2013, 10:24:39
whats that old chestnut about politics-the extreme right and the extreme left being much the same? Stalin or Hitler sort of argument. For the record I do not equate having concerns about immigration with being racist. They are two seperate things. That doesnt preclude the fact that there are those who are anti-immigration who are racist of course. More interesting of course is the concept of "racism" itself and what that entails. Is it about skin colour? Is it about religion? Maybe where they were born? Theyre politics perhaps or general "culture"? I personally, as Ive said before on here re similar posts, dont care about the intrinsic attributes of anyone (ie things they cannot change) eg colour of skin/age/sex/sexual orientation/where they were born/physical or mental abilities etc but I do feel that I should be able to challenge things like their personal beliefs inc cultural practices/religion and politics. We all of us have our own sets of preferences and prejudices, likes and dislikes. They are born of either nature or nurture. Some are harmless to others. Some are not. That we should have a right to challenge each others beliefs free from half baked accusations of racism/sexism/ageism/homophobism/transphobism (saw this one in a letter of complaint and loved it so much I include it here  ;D)etc is key.

All very valid Jerry.  Cannot and would not argue with any of that :y :y :y :y :y