Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: omega3000 on 16 February 2013, 17:58:34
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Would faulty HT leads or diss/pack cause a car to struggle to start once warm ( 106 pug ) Its intermittent but always does it when warm ... cold starts no problem at all :-\
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Idle valve sticks /goes faulty. Some stick hot/closed and wont start from cold, others don't close and allow too much air when warm.
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when you say struggling to start steve.... are you experiencing no crank/no start.... or crank/no start?
:y
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Idle valve sticks /goes faulty. Some stick hot/closed and wont start from cold, others don't close and allow too much air when warm.
ICV
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/milleblack/DSCF0771_zps42458d06.jpg)
Could be a possibility ;)
when you say struggling to start steve.... are you experiencing no crank/no start.... or crank/no start?
:y
Half crank / no start only when the car is warm from a run , refuses to start till cooled down . Starter motor needs looking at tomorrow to eliminate ;)
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worth checking battery voltage, batt connections, fuel and spark in your diagnosis to rule them out as problems imo :y
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I was thinking maybe duff HT leads as when the engine is cold it starts perfect , after a run when its all hot under the bonnet and heat transfer to HT leads maybe leading to break up :-\ Will take the ICV out and clean first to see if that makes any difference .
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worth checking battery voltage, batt connections, fuel and spark in your diagnosis to rule them out as problems imo :y
Its had new plugs , air filter , oil filter an oil . Never checked the ICV and presuming it will be crudded up ::) Fuel filter could be blocked but i have a new one to put on . Battery terminals need a clean and check , Mite be worth chucking some redex in tank as well and give it a blow out afterwood :y
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worth checking battery voltage, batt connections, fuel and spark in your diagnosis to rule them out as problems imo :y
Its had new plugs , air filter , oil filter an oil . Never checked the ICV and presuming it will be crudded up ::) Fuel filter could be blocked but i have a new one to put on . Battery terminals need a clean and check , Mite be worth chucking some redex in tank as well and give it a blow out afterwood :y
i'd personally start by getting a meter on the battery.
then whip the 4 ht leads out, connecting them to their spark plugs and earthing them (metal valve cover perhaps?) and crank over... make sure all 4 are giving spark.
then check fuel pump buzzing and relay/fuse good.
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Aye you can hear the fuel pump when you turn the ignition , when the car is hot and try the throttle to the floor it still wont start >:( smell petrol though ... had to wait ten minutes before it would kick into life again >:(
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Aye you can hear the fuel pump when you turn the ignition , when the car is hot and try the throttle to the floor it still wont start >:( smell petrol though ... had to wait ten minutes before it would kick into life again >:(
that would be what i'd focus my attention on mate first :y
is it coming from the engine bay? wheres the fuel filter in the pug?
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Aye you can hear the fuel pump when you turn the ignition , when the car is hot and try the throttle to the floor it still wont start >:( smell petrol though ... had to wait ten minutes before it would kick into life again >:(
that would be what i'd focus my attention on mate first :y
is it coming from the engine bay? wheres the fuel filter in the pug?
Its atatched to the chassis near the tank , car has become a bit hesitant at times on the run so replacing the fuel filter would be a good place to start ;)
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Aye you can hear the fuel pump when you turn the ignition , when the car is hot and try the throttle to the floor it still wont start >:( smell petrol though ... had to wait ten minutes before it would kick into life again >:(
that would be what i'd focus my attention on mate first :y
is it coming from the engine bay? wheres the fuel filter in the pug?
Its atatched to the chassis near the tank , car has become a bit hesitant at times on the run so replacing the fuel filter would be a good place to start ;)
defo. but i would hunt down that smell first :y
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Petrol smell is normal when foot to the floor mate ;)
As well as the other bits im sure the vac pipes could all do with de-gunking , taking off and blowing out just to make sure of no blockages :)
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Petrol smell is normal when foot to the floor mate ;)
As well as the other bits im sure the vac pipes could all do with de-gunking , taking off and blowing out just to make sure of no blockages :)
+1 :y
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hmmm going to be a long day 2moro then ;D ;D
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Petrol smell is normal when foot to the floor mate ;)
As well as the other bits im sure the vac pipes could all do with de-gunking , taking off and blowing out just to make sure of no blockages :)
+1 :y
fair enough :y
just cant see the correlation between starting problems when warm and vac pipes. who knows ::) :D :y
should it smell of fuel when foot to floor? being a pressurised system i'd have thought volume going through would have no bearing on that?
but then i am still learning ::) ;D
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Not 100% sure but thought if your foot is on gas and no start but pumping that the system floods :-\ Could be anything causing it , bloody cars ::) ::) ;D :D
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Not 100% sure but thought if your foot is on gas and no start but pumping that the system floods :-\ Could be anything causing it , bloody cars ::) ::) ;D :D
god knows mate ;D ;D ;D
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classic MAF symptoms.
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classic MAF symptoms.
Will check that ;) Think its best to just pull everything off it breather wise and rebuild it after a good cleaning , nothing ever simple eh especially when previous owner has just chucked petrol in it and done no servicing :(
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Wonder if its this Temp Sender (http://www.google.co.uk/aclk?sa=L&ai=CZ-SXjTUhUd7NF4f0wQPSi4CgC4LulKYD6ubGnjHytrTnbwgFEAMgl9TLBigFULaYhJH6_____wFgu46hg9AKyAEHqQJf2F1KpAe6PqoEJ0_QaLs4syOfFrWwMmGUCoKawo-1aeNo3HccOgacMhrfHgxeuzTvsYAFkE7ABQWgBiaAB-Kl4xzgEsz9z_GZyu_95AE&sig=AOD64_1zks4NQv86kW4JF8LpwmMWISvGgw&ctype=5&ved=0CD0Qww8&adurl=http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-134428-41853-0/2%3Fipn%3Dpsmain%26icep_vectorid%3D563391%26mtid%3D1673%26kwid%3D1%26crlp%3D13127387706_563391%26icep_item_id%3D190714305783%26itemid%3D190714305783%26icep_meta_categ_id%3D131090%26icep_etrs%3DN%26icep_epid%3D-999%26icep_ctlg%3D-999%26icep_cond%3DNew%26targetid%3D30013201266%26rpc%3D0.20%26rpc_upld_id%3D224%26icep_msku_flag%3Dn%26icep_cbt%3Dn%26adtype%3Dpla) ::)
Searching it seems if its knackered it will trick the ECU into thinking its 250 deg and wont start ::) :-\
Looks like ill be asking swmbo for more pocket money ::) :(
Guess i could pull the wires off it when it refuses to start and see if it solves the problem ... ;)
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how much,try gsf alot cheaper anf your 10% off aswell :y
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how much,try gsf alot cheaper anf your 10% off aswell :y
Forgot about that , will give them a ring :y By the way martin it should go faster now , theres 2 ton of grease and dirt on the floor from the de-greased engine bay :D
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any metal left on the car ;D ;D ;D ;D
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sorry i couldnt get over lads but i was swearing lots at this gay megane!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( halfords dont sell square drive sockets apparently!!! >:( >:(
i told him to buy a ford ::)
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what did you need a square socket for?
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sorry i couldnt get over lads but i was swearing lots at this gay megane!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( halfords dont sell square drive sockets apparently!!! >:( >:(
i told him to buy a ford ::)
No worries mate , hope you fixed it :-\
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what did you need a square socket for?
sump nut?
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yep, sump nut is square drive on these frenchies >:(
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local motorfactors,im surprised halfords didnt sell 1 tho,as ive seen them in the stores before
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you can get a set of them from most motor factors mate :y I got a set-theres about 7 and thay are square/hex ect :y
not dear about£7 iirc
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yep, sump nut is square drive on these frenchies >:(
Got one of those in me shed mate ;D :)
Borrow it if you need it steve , or perhaps you will need a set yourself if your going to do regular oil changes on frenchies :-\
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cheers guys :y :y :y
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got front bumper here for 98 migrane complete with spots it you want it mate :y
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/MIGRAINE_zps3b39eb67.jpg)
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Back to the issue , a bit of web search informs me of
Faulty coolant temp sensor can cause slightly rough idle. Other symptoms can be poor starting when the engine is warm
so will pick a new CTS up and see what difference it makes ... :)
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Just an observation.....reading this thread for the first time I have to say I have never seen a set of posts with so many random and poorly considered responses (sorry guys!). ;D :y
Lets stop and consider the symptoms.
1) Car starts when cold (assumption is no problems, op to confirm)
2) Car wont start when hot.
So what is the different between a cold and hot start
A) Coolant and oil is hot
B) Potentialy some key components are also hot
Now lets consider a number of the responses.
Idle valve - during starting the engine ECU operates the idle valve to give max opening independent of if the car is hot or cold. Symptoms dont link well to this (note, sticking idle valves cause stalling as a major symptom as you would expect)
HT (including leads, coil etc) - When these start to deteriorate the spark plug voltage drops or is lost completely. This shows most when flooring it whilst moving (sudden fuel enrichment requires extra volts to breakdown the fuel-air mix and/or when running at a constant speed (lean mixture)). Total failure causes miss fire and potential total engine stop, this is as likely to occur during normal running as it is cranking.
MAF - Is a remote possibility but its failing would be noticed during normal idling as well.
So its a warm start, a major difference is the quantity of fuel injected with a cold start needing more and hence the temp sensor is a strong possible (but needs checking properly either via measuring resistance and comparing with reference values or by using live data).
Other possible is a sensor which has low output during cranking and is tired, this may be shown up more when its hot (any Omega owner should be able to fill this blank in).
As an aside, fuel injected cars have a few features that are in place to allow recovery from an 'issue' in the same way a are carb engine would be treated. One of these is a flooded engine, flooring the throttle during cranking on a fuel injected engine stops the injectors being fired. :y
A piece of advice to all, a new part is NOT guaranteed to work (all new items have DOA levels) and hence the appraoch of willy nilly part changing (as is sadly all to common in the motor industry these days) adds more unknowsn to the issue :y :y ;D :)
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Thanks mark .
Car starts when cold no problem.
Car runs fine and does not stall or hesitate .
Car will not start after a run when all temperatures are up to normal .
Fuel filter was changed yesterday and can confirm it was thick with dirt .
My understanding is to replace the Coolant Temp Sender to the ECU ? From what i have read there is no MAF on the system ... I have no understanding of the single point injection system , the car idles fine , accelerates fine ect ect . Just when the car is up to temperature and stopped , it will not start until left for 10 minutes .
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Some ECU setups dont have a MAF centre, they utilise throttle position and MAP (manifold absolute pressure) to determine air flow.
Have a search for the the resistance readings for the the CTS....and dont rule out other sensors e.g. crank sensor. :y
Is it possible to pull fault codes from the ECM?
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Some ECU setups dont have a MAF centre, they utilise throttle position and MAP (manifold absolute pressure) to determine air flow.
Have a search for the the resistance readings for the the CTS....and dont rule out other sensors e.g. crank sensor. :y
Is it possible to pull fault codes from the ECM?
I dont really know , Henryd knows a bit about peugeo's so mite confirm . Also the crank sensor was mentioned as another possibilty but why would that stop the car from starting from warm ?
I had a quick look for the CTS , sensors all over the block ??? Took it as the nearest to the stat housing was the one i needed :-\ Im aware from searching the net that the CTS are a common failure on this model :(
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The signal the crank sensor see's is weakest during cranking (as the engine turns over at less than idel speed).
It is a type of sensor that can give a porrer signal when hot.
So cranking plus a failing sensor equals a very weak signal. :y
But again, check the CTS resistances as a starting point.
It should probably be a high resistance when cold (e.g. a few K ohms) and a lower resistance when warm (e.g. a few 100's of ohms)
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The signal the crank sensor see's is weakest during cranking (as the engine turns over at less than idel speed).
It is a type of sensor that can give a porrer signal when hot.
So cranking plus a failing sensor equals a very weak signal. :y
But again, check the CTS resistances as a starting point.
Will do :y
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The signal the crank sensor see's is weakest during cranking (as the engine turns over at less than idel speed).
It is a type of sensor that can give a porrer signal when hot.
So cranking plus a failing sensor equals a very weak signal. :y
But again, check the CTS resistances as a starting point.
Will do :y
Steve,what age car and which engine size,should be able to give you the ohms readings for the CTS at various temps :y
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The signal the crank sensor see's is weakest during cranking (as the engine turns over at less than idel speed).
It is a type of sensor that can give a porrer signal when hot.
So cranking plus a failing sensor equals a very weak signal. :y
But again, check the CTS resistances as a starting point.
Will do :y
Steve,what age car and which engine size,should be able to give you the ohms readings for the CTS at various temps :y
1998 1.1 henry ;)
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The signal the crank sensor see's is weakest during cranking (as the engine turns over at less than idel speed).
It is a type of sensor that can give a porrer signal when hot.
So cranking plus a failing sensor equals a very weak signal. :y
But again, check the CTS resistances as a starting point.
Will do :y
Steve,what age car and which engine size,should be able to give you the ohms readings for the CTS at various temps :y
1998 1.1 henry ;)
Cts check at sensor
10 degrees C 3530-4100 ohms
20 2350-2670
30 1585-1790
40 1085-1230
50 763-857
60 540-615
80 292-326
90 215-245
hope that helps :y
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Pretty standard sensor range then :y
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>:( I cant find which is the correct sensor , the nearest to the stat housing is a green connection and next to it on the block is another but blue connection .
Scoured the net and some are saying green some saying its the blue to the ECU >:(
2 pin on the green
3 pin on the blue
Pug forum is useless for an answer so im stuck now as to which goes to ECU :( :-\
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The Bosch setups are usualy a two pin device although some very early ones were three pin. Normaly an aqua/greeen colour and pretty sure the shitroen ones are the same
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The Bosch setups are usualy a two pin device although some very early ones were three pin. Normaly an aqua/greeen colour and pretty sure the shitroen ones are the same
I have a new Green one and on the box says " engine management coolant temp sensor " But the connection is different to the one on the car >:( Back to the drawing board .
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The Bosch setups are usualy a two pin device although some very early ones were three pin. Normaly an aqua/greeen colour and pretty sure the shitroen ones are the same
I have a new Green one and on the box says " engine management coolant temp sensor " But the connection is different to the one on the car >:( Back to the drawing board .
I agree with Mark,it's normally the green one,do you know anyone with a scanner that can access the pug,be good to view live readings and look at what the ECU is seeing
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The Bosch setups are usualy a two pin device although some very early ones were three pin. Normaly an aqua/greeen colour and pretty sure the shitroen ones are the same
I have a new Green one and on the box says " engine management coolant temp sensor " But the connection is different to the one on the car >:( Back to the drawing board .
I agree with Mark,it's normally the green one,do you know anyone with a scanner that can access the pug,be good to view live readings and look at what the ECU is seeing
No henry not that i know of :(
One thing that ive seen on the web is that if the green sensor is disconnected while the car is running , if the throttle rises then the sensor is working :-\
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Tick over seems high so another pointer towards CTS , ive been sent the right sensor but wrong connection >:( >:( >:( Apparently the are 16 different CTS's ::) Another one on its way ::)
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Tick over seems high so another pointer towards CTS , ive been sent the right sensor but wrong connection >:( >:( >:( Apparently the are 16 different CTS's ::) Another one on its way ::)
Gotta love the frogs ;D ;D
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Tick over seems high so another pointer towards CTS , ive been sent the right sensor but wrong connection >:( >:( >:( Apparently the are 16 different CTS's ::) Another one on its way ::)
Gotta love the frogs ;D ;D
Aye ;D Only 14 more to try >:(
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Well new sensor is in , stopped and started 2 times when warm and it starts fine :) Was well worth an hour of swearing with accompanied frost bite ::)
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Well new sensor is in , stopped and started 2 times when warm and it starts fine :) Was well worth an hour of swearing with accompanied frost bite ::)
Nice one :y :y
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Well new sensor is in , stopped and started 2 times when warm and it starts fine :) Was well worth an hour of swearing with accompanied frost bite ::)
But did you figure out what the yellow ring was for? ;)
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Well new sensor is in , stopped and started 2 times when warm and it starts fine :) Was well worth an hour of swearing with accompanied frost bite ::)
But did you figure out what the yellow ring was for? ;)
Err no ;D There was a similar one on the old one so im presuming its a colour coding thingamygig :-\
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Well new sensor is in , stopped and started 2 times when warm and it starts fine :) Was well worth an hour of swearing with accompanied frost bite ::)
But did you figure out what the yellow ring was for? ;)
Err no ;D There was a similar one on the old one so im presuming its a colour coding thingamygig :-\
Maybe it's just so you know which one of the 14 different coolant temp sensors you're meant to order.. ;D
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Well new sensor is in , stopped and started 2 times when warm and it starts fine :) Was well worth an hour of swearing with accompanied frost bite ::)
But did you figure out what the yellow ring was for? ;)
Err no ;D There was a similar one on the old one so im presuming its a colour coding thingamygig :-\
Maybe it's just so you know which one of the 14 different coolant temp sensors you're meant to order.. ;D
Yeah how stupid is that >:( Still it keeps the grease monkeys busy ;D
Should get better mpg now , last count was 85 miles off £10 before the new sensor :P ;)
The £50 a week im saving on fuel is going towards a nice holiday 8)
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Nice saving, even with the PITA factor.. if only I could bring myself to drive the girlfriends Micra to work & back instead of the Omega, maybe I could do the same! :-[
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Nice saving, even with the PITA factor.. if only I could bring myself to drive the girlfriends Micra to work & back instead of the Omega, maybe I could do the same! :-[
I would have liked to have kept the omega but needs must :-[ , having owned 3 elites i know what im missing comfort wise and the pug is not ideal for my needs but it will do as a stop gap till circumstances change .. Still love the omegas and no doubt ill be having another when possible , with the pug its great passing the petrol stations but you lot who have an omega dont need ear defenders like i do ;D ;)
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I would have liked to have kept the omega but needs must :-[ , having owned 3 elites i know what im missing comfort wise and the pug is not ideal for my needs but it will do as a stop gap till circumstances change .. Still love the omegas and no doubt ill be having another when possible , with the pug its great passing the petrol stations but you lot who have an omega dont need ear defenders like i do ;D ;)
;D I don't really mind driving her Micra that much - granted it feels odd putting your foot to the floor and having nothing happen, but it's nippy enough around town (I suppose).
The bigger problem is that I'm a fat heffer and can only just get the damn seat belt done up :-[ :-[
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Well im not exactly slim ::) Its the getting in and out thats the problem , but its better than the old fiesta i had where you would easily rub shoulders with the passenger . Just amazed at how little fuel it uses and thats why i bought it , it could do with better soundproofing in the cabin but it does what i need it to . End of the day ill get to the destination and bac like anyone else but cheaper ;)
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The trouble is small cars and long distances dont mix.
If I drove a small car on the 100 mile daily round trip it will kill me off ;D
Interestingly, the 2.5 manual was pretty good on that trip getting around 38mpg.
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The trouble is small cars and long distances dont mix.
If I drove a small car on the 100 mile daily round trip it will kill me off ;D
Interestingly, the 2.5 manual was pretty good on that trip getting around 38mpg.
It would ...
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/milleblack/GWiz460_zpsc65d3188.jpg)
;D
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good result steve :y
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good result steve :y
:'( :'( :'( Its started again >:( >:( >:( >:(
Off to the shops after a run and stopped the car , tried starting it and no go >:( doin my oppsing nut in now .
Starter motor needs taking off now to inspect and clean i guess ::)
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The trouble is small cars and long distances dont mix.
If I drove a small car on the 100 mile daily round trip it will kill me off ;D
Interestingly, the 2.5 manual was pretty good on that trip getting around 38mpg.
You are invited to drive my clit Mr DTM :) its quick and comfortable.. and can hide in any gap within an eyeflash .. besides can get through very narrow gaps ;D :y
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The trouble is small cars and long distances dont mix.
If I drove a small car on the 100 mile daily round trip it will kill me off ;D
Interestingly, the 2.5 manual was pretty good on that trip getting around 38mpg.
You are invited to drive my clit Mr DTM :) its quick and comfortable.. and can hide in any gap within an eyeflash .. besides can get through very narrow gaps ;D :y
But no good for 2 hours a day on the motorway at speed. :y
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The trouble is small cars and long distances dont mix.
If I drove a small car on the 100 mile daily round trip it will kill me off ;D
Interestingly, the 2.5 manual was pretty good on that trip getting around 38mpg.
You are invited to drive my clit Mr DTM :) its quick and comfortable.. and can hide in any gap within an eyeflash .. besides can get through very narrow gaps ;D :y
But no good for 2 hours a day on the motorway at speed. :y
you must try at least once :) I have traveled with it long distances and didnt feel tired :y
ps: I only feel tired if I had silly average speeds :-X
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The trouble is small cars and long distances dont mix.
If I drove a small car on the 100 mile daily round trip it will kill me off ;D
Interestingly, the 2.5 manual was pretty good on that trip getting around 38mpg.
You are invited to drive my clit Mr DTM :) its quick and comfortable.. and can hide in any gap within an eyeflash .. besides can get through very narrow gaps ;D :y
But no good for 2 hours a day on the motorway at speed. :y
you must try at least once :) I have traveled with it long distances and didnt feel tired :y
ps: I only feel tired if I had silly average speeds :-X
I did 90 minutes in SWTSMBO clit ... never again .. it drove fine .. although underpowered for motorway cruising .. and a shade noisy compared to omega ... BUT .. BIG BUT ..
I could hardly walk when I eventually managed to extract myself from it ... most uncomfortable seats/driving position you could wish for ... :(
You want to be crippled for life ?? Use a clit for long distances/time .... :(
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I have, tried clits, small cars, medium cars the works (we used to get rental cars for the trip so all sorts of stuff) and no, to noisey, to hard on the ride and seats not great. :y
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Well im not exactly slim ::) Its the getting in and out thats the problem , but its better than the old fiesta i had where you would easily rub shoulders with the passenger . Just amazed at how little fuel it uses and thats why i bought it , it could do with better soundproofing in the cabin but it does what i need it to . End of the day ill get to the destination and bac like anyone else but cheaper ;)
Cheap solution - ear plugs and turn radio volume up ;)
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The trouble is small cars and long distances dont mix.
If I drove a small car on the 100 mile daily round trip it will kill me off ;D
Interestingly, the 2.5 manual was pretty good on that trip getting around 38mpg.
You are invited to drive my clit Mr DTM :) its quick and comfortable.. and can hide in any gap within an eyeflash .. besides can get through very narrow gaps ;D :y
But no good for 2 hours a day on the motorway at speed. :y
you must try at least once :) I have traveled with it long distances and didnt feel tired :y
ps: I only feel tired if I had silly average speeds :-X
I did 90 minutes in SWTSMBO clit ... never again .. it drove fine .. although underpowered for motorway cruising .. and a shade noisy compared to omega ... BUT .. BIG BUT ..
I could hardly walk when I eventually managed to extract myself from it ... most uncomfortable seats/driving position you could wish for ... :(
You want to be crippled for life ?? Use a clit for long distances/time .... :(
it has 90 hp, 110 hp and 172-182 , 200 hp .. sure you drive the 90 hp 1.4 :)
other versions have shorter ratios and stronger engines..
seats not bad but of course not comparable to omega ;D
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Pass me a match >:( Just been to the doctors and back , sure it mite be exhaust fumes coming into cabin ...got a headache now ::)