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[symes]

you can get a set of them from most motor factors mate I got a set-theres about 7 and thay are square/hex ect
not dear about£7 iirc

[omega3000]

yep, sump nut is square drive on these frenchies 

Got one of those in me shed mate 


Borrow it if you need it steve , or perhaps you will need a set yourself if your going to do regular oil changes on frenchies 

[Webby the Bear]

cheers guys 

[symes]

got front bumper here for 98 migrane complete with spots it you want it mate

[Webby the Bear]

 

[symes]

 

[omega3000]

Back to the issue , a bit of web search informs me of

Faulty coolant temp sensor can cause slightly rough idle.  Other symptoms can be poor starting when the engine is warm

so will pick a new CTS up and see what difference it makes ... 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Just an observation.....reading this thread for the first time I have to say I have never seen a set of posts with so many random and poorly considered responses (sorry guys!). 

Lets stop and consider the symptoms.

1) Car starts when cold (assumption is no problems, op to confirm)
2) Car wont start when hot.

So what is the different between a cold and hot start

A) Coolant and oil is hot
B) Potentialy some key components are also hot

Now lets consider a number of the responses.

Idle valve - during starting the engine ECU operates the idle valve to give max opening independent of if the car is hot or cold. Symptoms dont link well to this (note, sticking idle valves cause stalling as a major symptom as you would expect)

HT (including leads, coil etc) - When these start to deteriorate the spark plug voltage drops or is lost completely. This shows most when flooring it whilst moving (sudden fuel enrichment requires extra volts to breakdown the fuel-air mix and/or when running at a constant speed (lean mixture)). Total failure causes miss fire and potential total engine stop, this is as likely to occur during normal running as it is cranking.

MAF - Is a remote possibility but its failing would be noticed during normal idling as well.

So its a warm start, a major difference is the quantity of fuel injected with a cold start needing more and hence the temp sensor is a strong possible (but needs checking properly either via measuring resistance and comparing with reference values or by using live data).

Other possible is a sensor which has low output during cranking and is tired, this may be shown up more when its hot (any Omega owner should be able to fill this blank in).

As an aside, fuel injected cars have a few features that are in place to allow recovery from an 'issue' in the same way a are carb engine would be treated. One of these is a flooded engine, flooring the throttle during cranking on a fuel injected engine stops the injectors being fired. 

A piece of advice to all, a new part is NOT guaranteed to work (all new items have DOA levels) and hence the appraoch of willy nilly part changing (as is sadly all to common in the motor industry these days) adds more unknowsn to the issue 

[omega3000]

Thanks mark .

Car starts when cold no problem.

Car runs fine and does not stall or hesitate .

Car will not start after a run when all temperatures are up to normal .

Fuel filter was changed yesterday and can confirm it was thick with dirt .

My understanding is to replace the Coolant Temp Sender to the ECU ? From what i have read there is no MAF on the system ... I have no understanding of the single point injection system , the car idles fine , accelerates fine ect ect . Just when the car is up to temperature and stopped , it will not start until left for 10 minutes .

[Marks DTM Calib]

Some ECU setups dont have a MAF centre, they utilise throttle position and MAP (manifold absolute pressure) to determine air flow.

Have a search for the the resistance readings for the the CTS....and dont rule out other sensors e.g. crank sensor. 

Is it possible to pull fault codes from the ECM?

[omega3000]

Some ECU setups dont have a MAF centre, they utilise throttle position and MAP (manifold absolute pressure) to determine air flow.

Have a search for the the resistance readings for the the CTS....and dont rule out other sensors e.g. crank sensor. 

Is it possible to pull fault codes from the ECM?

I dont really know , Henryd knows a bit about peugeo's so mite confirm . Also the crank sensor was mentioned as another possibilty but why would that stop the car from starting from warm ?

I had a quick look for the CTS , sensors all over the block  Took it as the nearest to the stat housing was the one i needed  Im aware from searching the net that the CTS are a common failure on this model 

[Marks DTM Calib]

The signal the crank sensor see's is weakest during cranking (as the engine turns over at less than idel speed).

It is a type of sensor that can give a porrer signal when hot.

So cranking plus a failing sensor equals a very weak signal. 

But again, check the CTS resistances as a starting point.

It should probably be a high resistance when cold (e.g. a few K ohms) and a lower resistance when warm (e.g. a few 100's of ohms)

[omega3000]

The signal the crank sensor see's is weakest during cranking (as the engine turns over at less than idel speed).

It is a type of sensor that can give a porrer signal when hot.

So cranking plus a failing sensor equals a very weak signal. 

But again, check the CTS resistances as a starting point.

Will do 

[henryd]

The signal the crank sensor see's is weakest during cranking (as the engine turns over at less than idel speed).

It is a type of sensor that can give a porrer signal when hot.

So cranking plus a failing sensor equals a very weak signal. 

But again, check the CTS resistances as a starting point.

Will do 

Steve,what age car and which engine size,should be able to give you the ohms readings for the CTS at various temps

[omega3000]

The signal the crank sensor see's is weakest during cranking (as the engine turns over at less than idel speed).

It is a type of sensor that can give a porrer signal when hot.

So cranking plus a failing sensor equals a very weak signal. 

But again, check the CTS resistances as a starting point.

Will do 

Steve,what age car and which engine size,should be able to give you the ohms readings for the CTS at various temps

1998 1.1 henry