Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: cleggy on 26 April 2013, 14:08:56
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I was listening to Radio4 at lunch time when a topic came on about cyclists and some pressure group is trying to get us to come into line with most of europe whereby any accident involving a car and a cycle then the CAR DRIVER is automatically to blame. What a load of Bulldog X Shitzu. >:(
I have never hear such a load of rubbish in my life, English law states innocent until proven guilty, and having seen the stupidity of some cyclists I despair. Only this morning at a 't' junction controlled by traffic lights the lights turned to red and the green man came on for pedestrians to cross, this prick on a bike went straight through the red light and only just missed two children and an elderly gentleman crossing the road. >:( >:( >:( >:(
So if they get their way, then a cyclist can ram my car, I'm to blame for his stupidity and he sues for compensation >:( >:(
Cyclists should obey the highway code, get insured and if not face prosecution like us motorists.
I do know that there are responsible cyclists among us what do they think?
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I am a motorist and a cyclist. My views on this subject are well known and do not need repeating.
I would agree with this change but ONLY if laws against cyclists who act irresponsibly are toughened as well.
The law in Europe is the same also down the food chain to pedestrians too, so if a cyclist hits a pedestrian they would be in just as much trouble as if they were in a car.
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Funny you should say that....about a hour ago, we stopped at the Zebra crossing up the road, and as people crossed, this retard in lycra, helmet and dark glasses, came belting through, almost hit them. The best bit was that the pratt slammed on his brakes, he hit the kerb, went on the wobbles and almost came off. Pity he didn't. Never even looked back, probably because he was sent on his way with a load of profanities from one of the blokes crossing. >:(
Yes I agree....they should be insured, and as to them always being in the right, what a load of twaddle.
On saying that, as a 'bit part' cyclist (non road) I have every respect for responsible cyclists :y
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I'm staying out of it, I've seen where this topic has gone before. ;D ;D
I do have my opinions on " I'm not stopping for anyone" type of cyclist though. ;)
Care on everyone's part is the key to this. :y
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I have always said that every motorist ought to experience other modes of transport in order to appreciate other perspectives.
There is a programme(barely legal driver?) on TV with new and young drivers which just makes your hair stand on end. Better name would be barely capable of thought. I have a belief of my own that 98% of motorists only see the space between them and the back of the car in front and have no cogniscence of anything else in front, behind or at either side.
So the pressures of daily existence coupled with poor driving skills means that daily deaths from crashes (not accidents) occur.
It is just wrong to assume that the lower you are down the transport food chain the more in the right you are.
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When cycling to Brighton, there was a group ahead of me. Large pack of around 30 or so, riding in about 3 wide in some cases. Full on road bikes, so doing a fair pace, at least 30mph in a 40mph zone. The amount of cars tailgating dangerously, then blasting their horns was incredible!
Often on the cycle to work, you get cars giving you just mm's of space.
Fully support this new law, but as guffers says if the cyclist is irresponsible that needs to be addressed.
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So the pressures of daily existence coupled with poor driving skills means that daily deaths from crashes (not accidents) occur.
Nice to see someone making that differentiation. Collisions and crashes always have a cause, they are not accidents.
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So if a cyclist is tailgating me, I brake and he runs into the back of me its my fault... I DON'T THINK SO >:(
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some cyclists are total brainless idiots they have no regard for outher road users not all but some
when i was a special i prosicuted one cyclist for going though a red light and causing a fatal accident he got fined 300 pounds and 4month suspendid sentance then anouther month for comptempt of court by sticking the vs up to the magistrate he hade to serve the month he said in his defence that the highway code dode not apply to cyclists we are exempt from all trafic laws he was so cocky he didnt have a lawyer
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So if a cyclist is tailgating me, I brake and he runs into the back of me its my fault... I DON'T THINK SO >:(
But its ok for a car to tailgate a cyclist, who then brakes and gets run over? ::)
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As i probably use my bike more than my Mig for local chores no way do i agree with car drivers being
held responsable for some of the idiots on bikes. These people are not serious cyclists but just a
pr-t who happens to use a bike as a mode of transport :'(
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As i probably use my bike more than my Mig for local chores no way do i agree with car drivers being
held responsable for some of the idiots on bikes. These people are not serious cyclists but just a
pr-t who happens to use a bike as a mode of transport :'(
Having cycled fair bit in Amsterdam too, I'm all for it. Car drivers give cyclists to much more room!
Even when cars are turning across into a carpark ect, they have to give way to cyclist. Roundabouts were a pleasure, you had your own separate route, again cyclist had priority. :)
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So if a cyclist is tailgating me, I brake and he runs into the back of me its my fault... I DON'T THINK SO >:(
But its ok for a car to tailgate a cyclist, who then brakes and gets run over? ::)
I didn't say that, it's not OKeh in either case but the tailgater is at fault in both cases :y
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As i probably use my bike more than my Mig for local chores no way do i agree with car drivers being
held responsable for some of the idiots on bikes. These people are not serious cyclists but just a
pr-t who happens to use a bike as a mode of transport :'(
Having cycled fair bit in Amsterdam too, I'm all for it. Car drivers give cyclists to much more room!
Even when cars are turning across into a carpark ect, they have to give way to cyclist. Roundabouts were a pleasure, you had your own separate route, again cyclist had priority. :)
So all car drivers are idiots and all cyclist are a paragon of road discipline. This is not Amsterdam :y ;D ;D
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We both know the type of people who cause problems are on both sides of the fence, as Guffers says rules need to be introduced for dangerous behaviour by cyclists too. But on the whole I agree with it, as a driver and cyclist.
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hat poxes me off is when the council have gone to the expence of a cycle path at the side of the road and you get tools on cycles 2 and 3 a breast holding traffic up. It has been known for me to slow right down when I have a car behind me with cycles on the roof or boot. I'm all for cycling and I know there are bad motorist and cyclist but if there's a cycle lane then use it
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I've just had my worst nightmare:- A boy band on bikes surrounding my car singing 'You're The One To Blame' ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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When cycling to Brighton, there was a group ahead of me. Large pack of around 30 or so, riding in about 3 wide in some cases. Full on road bikes, so doing a fair pace, at least 30mph in a 40mph zone. The amount of cars tailgating dangerously, then blasting their horns was incredible!
Often on the cycle to work, you get cars giving you just mm's of space.
Fully support this new law, but as guffers says if the cyclist is irresponsible that needs to be addressed.
To me, that is irresponsible and im not surprised some cars were sounding their horns.....they should have been single file imo.
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hat poxes me off is when the council have gone to the expence of a cycle path at the side of the road and you get tools on cycles 2 and 3 a breast holding traffic up. It has been known for me to slow right down when I have a car behind me with cycles on the roof or boot. I'm all for cycling and I know there are bad motorist and cyclist but if there's a cycle lane then use it
The problem is, they are often shite!
Take the A4 one I use, its as smooth as a TB's driving style. You've got a lot of junctions joining in which you have to give way, lights to cross certain sections, it goes off in the wrong direction at times. The road is faster & smoother.
When cycling to Brighton, there was a group ahead of me. Large pack of around 30 or so, riding in about 3 wide in some cases. Full on road bikes, so doing a fair pace, at least 30mph in a 40mph zone. The amount of cars tailgating dangerously, then blasting their horns was incredible!
Often on the cycle to work, you get cars giving you just mm's of space.
Fully support this new law, but as guffers says if the cyclist is irresponsible that needs to be addressed.
To me, that is irresponsible and im not surprised some cars were sounding their horns.....they should have been single file imo.
Nothing wrong with it in my view, it was a special event, how is it different from a tractor going along? (which would have been going slower!)
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So the pressures of daily existence coupled with poor driving skills means that daily deaths from crashes (not accidents) occur.
Nice to see someone making that differentiation. Collisions and crashes always have a cause, they are not accidents.
Indeed, and that is why the police now call them RTC - Road Traffic Collisions :y :y :y
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hat poxes me off is when the council have gone to the expence of a cycle path at the side of the road and you get tools on cycles 2 and 3 a breast holding traffic up. It has been known for me to slow right down when I have a car behind me with cycles on the roof or boot. I'm all for cycling and I know there are bad motorist and cyclist but if there's a cycle lane then use it
The problem is, they are often shite!
Take the A4 one I use, its as smooth as a TB's driving style. You've got a lot of junctions joining in which you have to give way, lights to cross certain sections, it goes off in the wrong direction at times. The road is faster & smoother.
When cycling to Brighton, there was a group ahead of me. Large pack of around 30 or so, riding in about 3 wide in some cases. Full on road bikes, so doing a fair pace, at least 30mph in a 40mph zone. The amount of cars tailgating dangerously, then blasting their horns was incredible!
Often on the cycle to work, you get cars giving you just mm's of space.
Fully support this new law, but as guffers says if the cyclist is irresponsible that needs to be addressed.
To me, that is irresponsible and im not surprised some cars were sounding their horns.....they should have been single file imo.
Nothing wrong with it in my view, it was a special event, how is it different from a tractor going along? (which would have been going slower!)
Ah right, so the council spend millions on a cycle path but you'd rather not use it and slow the cars down instead and then moan if they get too close. Maybe the cars should use the cycle lane because it's faster due to all the cyclists using the road ;D ;D
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hat poxes me off is when the council have gone to the expence of a cycle path at the side of the road and you get tools on cycles 2 and 3 a breast holding traffic up. It has been known for me to slow right down when I have a car behind me with cycles on the roof or boot. I'm all for cycling and I know there are bad motorist and cyclist but if there's a cycle lane then use it
The problem is, they are often shite!
Take the A4 one I use, its as smooth as a TB's driving style. You've got a lot of junctions joining in which you have to give way, lights to cross certain sections, it goes off in the wrong direction at times. The road is faster & smoother.
When cycling to Brighton, there was a group ahead of me. Large pack of around 30 or so, riding in about 3 wide in some cases. Full on road bikes, so doing a fair pace, at least 30mph in a 40mph zone. The amount of cars tailgating dangerously, then blasting their horns was incredible!
Often on the cycle to work, you get cars giving you just mm's of space.
Fully support this new law, but as guffers says if the cyclist is irresponsible that needs to be addressed.
To me, that is irresponsible and im not surprised some cars were sounding their horns.....they should have been single file imo.
Nothing wrong with it in my view, it was a special event, how is it different from a tractor going along? (which would have been going slower!)
I've never seen tractors 3 a breast ;D ;D
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hat poxes me off is when the council have gone to the expence of a cycle path at the side of the road and you get tools on cycles 2 and 3 a breast holding traffic up. It has been known for me to slow right down when I have a car behind me with cycles on the roof or boot. I'm all for cycling and I know there are bad motorist and cyclist but if there's a cycle lane then use it
The problem is, they are often shite!
Take the A4 one I use, its as smooth as a TB's driving style. You've got a lot of junctions joining in which you have to give way, lights to cross certain sections, it goes off in the wrong direction at times. The road is faster & smoother.
When cycling to Brighton, there was a group ahead of me. Large pack of around 30 or so, riding in about 3 wide in some cases. Full on road bikes, so doing a fair pace, at least 30mph in a 40mph zone. The amount of cars tailgating dangerously, then blasting their horns was incredible!
Often on the cycle to work, you get cars giving you just mm's of space.
Fully support this new law, but as guffers says if the cyclist is irresponsible that needs to be addressed.
To me, that is irresponsible and im not surprised some cars were sounding their horns.....they should have been single file imo.
Nothing wrong with it in my view, it was a special event, how is it different from a tractor going along? (which would have been going slower!)
A tractor has no control on how wide it is. Single file cycling gives the motorist more chance of over taking......cycling 3 wide or even 2 wide makes it a whole lot harder to overtake......and is just selfish behaviour imo.....what difference does it make to the cyclist if he's following another??
It may have been an event......but you still have to be considerate to other road users....yes??
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The Highway Code should apply equally to all road users! :y
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hat poxes me off is when the council have gone to the expence of a cycle path at the side of the road and you get tools on cycles 2 and 3 a breast holding traffic up. It has been known for me to slow right down when I have a car behind me with cycles on the roof or boot. I'm all for cycling and I know there are bad motorist and cyclist but if there's a cycle lane then use it
The problem is, they are often shite!
Take the A4 one I use, its as smooth as a TB's driving style. You've got a lot of junctions joining in which you have to give way, lights to cross certain sections, it goes off in the wrong direction at times. The road is faster & smoother.
When cycling to Brighton, there was a group ahead of me. Large pack of around 30 or so, riding in about 3 wide in some cases. Full on road bikes, so doing a fair pace, at least 30mph in a 40mph zone. The amount of cars tailgating dangerously, then blasting their horns was incredible!
Often on the cycle to work, you get cars giving you just mm's of space.
Fully support this new law, but as guffers says if the cyclist is irresponsible that needs to be addressed.
To me, that is irresponsible and im not surprised some cars were sounding their horns.....they should have been single file imo.
Nothing wrong with it in my view, it was a special event, how is it different from a tractor going along? (which would have been going slower!)
Ah right, so the council spend millions on a cycle path but you'd rather not use it and slow the cars down instead and then moan if they get too close. Maybe the cars should use the cycle lane because it's faster due to all the cyclists using the road ;D ;D
They can only have spent about 50p on the A4 one, its just terrible. Often its just a coat of paint ::)
I pay £200 odd for the 2.2's road tax, £200 odd for the 3.2's road tax & about £75 for the motorbike road tax. I think I deserve to use road for my cycle too :)
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hat poxes me off is when the council have gone to the expence of a cycle path at the side of the road and you get tools on cycles 2 and 3 a breast holding traffic up. It has been known for me to slow right down when I have a car behind me with cycles on the roof or boot. I'm all for cycling and I know there are bad motorist and cyclist but if there's a cycle lane then use it
The problem is, they are often shite!
Take the A4 one I use, its as smooth as a TB's driving style. You've got a lot of junctions joining in which you have to give way, lights to cross certain sections, it goes off in the wrong direction at times. The road is faster & smoother.
When cycling to Brighton, there was a group ahead of me. Large pack of around 30 or so, riding in about 3 wide in some cases. Full on road bikes, so doing a fair pace, at least 30mph in a 40mph zone. The amount of cars tailgating dangerously, then blasting their horns was incredible!
Often on the cycle to work, you get cars giving you just mm's of space.
Fully support this new law, but as guffers says if the cyclist is irresponsible that needs to be addressed.
To me, that is irresponsible and im not surprised some cars were sounding their horns.....they should have been single file imo.
Nothing wrong with it in my view, it was a special event, how is it different from a tractor going along? (which would have been going slower!)
A tractor has no control on how wide it is. Single file cycling gives the motorist more chance of over taking......cycling 3 wide or even 2 wide makes it a whole lot harder to overtake......and is just selfish behaviour imo.....what difference does it make to the cyclist if he's following another??
It may have been an event......but you still have to be considerate to other road users....yes??
2 wide is within highway code :)
Also given they were quite close to the speed limit, I don't see the problem. It forces cars to go around you, rather than letting them blast past with mm's to spare, which happened a lot.
There were 300 of us, so even if you over-took a few, had quite a few more bikes in front of you.
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hat poxes me off is when the council have gone to the expence of a cycle path at the side of the road and you get tools on cycles 2 and 3 a breast holding traffic up. It has been known for me to slow right down when I have a car behind me with cycles on the roof or boot. I'm all for cycling and I know there are bad motorist and cyclist but if there's a cycle lane then use it
The problem is, they are often shite!
Take the A4 one I use, its as smooth as a TB's driving style. You've got a lot of junctions joining in which you have to give way, lights to cross certain sections, it goes off in the wrong direction at times. The road is faster & smoother.
When cycling to Brighton, there was a group ahead of me. Large pack of around 30 or so, riding in about 3 wide in some cases. Full on road bikes, so doing a fair pace, at least 30mph in a 40mph zone. The amount of cars tailgating dangerously, then blasting their horns was incredible!
Often on the cycle to work, you get cars giving you just mm's of space.
Fully support this new law, but as guffers says if the cyclist is irresponsible that needs to be addressed.
To me, that is irresponsible and im not surprised some cars were sounding their horns.....they should have been single file imo.
Nothing wrong with it in my view, it was a special event, how is it different from a tractor going along? (which would have been going slower!)
Ah right, so the council spend millions on a cycle path but you'd rather not use it and slow the cars down instead and then moan if they get too close. Maybe the cars should use the cycle lane because it's faster due to all the cyclists using the road ;D ;D
They can only have spent about 50p on the A4 one, its just terrible. Often its just a coat of paint ::)
I pay £200 odd for the 2.2's road tax, £200 odd for the 3.2's road tax & about £75 for the bikes road tax. I think I deserve to use road for my bike too :)
ER! not in my opinion, and how about insurance as well you use the road just like the rest of us :y
If your event was special I presume you had motorcyle escort, police accompanyment, road signs indicating the event was in progress etc or was it just a club day out and not an official road race. The reason I ask is that when the Tour of Britain passed the end of out crescent all the above were in place. ???
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Tour of Britian is a tad different ::)
But we had route signs, road sprayed with arrows at all junctions, St Johns Ambulance, Crew cars, support cars. So decent sized event :)
Certain diesel/hybrid cars don't pay any road tax!
Event was fully insured too by British Cycling.
Law works perfectly well in Euroland :y
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Tour of Britian is a tad different ::)
But we had route signs, road sprayed with arrows at all junctions, St Johns Ambulance, Crew cars, support cars. So decent sized event :)
Certain diesel/hybrid cars don't pay any road tax!
Event was fully insured too by British Cycling.
Law works perfectly well in Euroland :y
But they are insured as should invalid cars and cycles.
I only wanted to say when starting this thread is that it is bloody stupid to blame the motorist for a collision with a cyclist when it is clearly the cyclists fault. If you run into the back of another car then it is your fault, how the hell if a cyclist runs into the rear of your car can it be your fault. ???
Cyclists are idiots, car drivers are idiots but each must respect the Highway Code :y
As for Euroland.... FREAK OUT ;) ;D ;D ;D
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Tour of Britian is a tad different ::)
But we had route signs, road sprayed with arrows at all junctions, St Johns Ambulance, Crew cars, support cars. So decent sized event :)
Certain diesel/hybrid cars don't pay any road tax!
Event was fully insured too by British Cycling.
Law works perfectly well in Euroland :y
But they are insured as should invalid cars and cycles.
I only wanted to say when starting this thread is that it is bloody stupid to blame the motorist for a collision with a cyclist when it is clearly the cyclists fault. If you run into the back of another car then it is your fault, how the hell if a cyclist runs into the rear of your car can it be your fault. ???
Cyclists are idiots, car drivers are idiots but each must respect the Highway Code :y
As for Euroland.... FREAK OUT ;) ;D ;D ;D
You are turning left, you overtake a cycle. The cycle is going faster than you think, you turn left into a side road. Bam!
Guy on the bike runs into the back of you. Seen it before! :( - Also happened to me, been overtaken then car almost straight away turns across me. >:(
Clearly, as said earlier rules for dangerous cyclists need to be improved as well.
But as a car driver, if you are behind a cyclist and know if you hit him its your fault, you would give them a lot more room when passing, be aware of pulling out of junctions ect, as thats most common cause of serious accidents. Car at T junction, pulls out, not seeing the cyclist, happened to friend of mine TWICE in as many months. Second time he ended up going over the roof of the car! :o
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Tour of Britian is a tad different ::)
But we had route signs, road sprayed with arrows at all junctions, St Johns Ambulance, Crew cars, support cars. So decent sized event :)
Certain diesel/hybrid cars don't pay any road tax!
Event was fully insured too by British Cycling.
Law works perfectly well in Euroland :y
But they are insured as should invalid cars and cycles.
I only wanted to say when starting this thread is that it is bloody stupid to blame the motorist for a collision with a cyclist when it is clearly the cyclists fault. If you run into the back of another car then it is your fault, how the hell if a cyclist runs into the rear of your car can it be your fault. ???
Cyclists are idiots, car drivers are idiots but each must respect the Highway Code :y
As for Euroland.... FREAK OUT ;) ;D ;D ;D
You are turning left, you overtake a cycle. The cycle is going faster than you think, you turn left into a side road. Bam!
Guy on the bike runs into the back of you. Seen it before! :( - Also happened to me, been overtaken then car almost straight away turns across me. >:(
Clearly, as said earlier rules for dangerous cyclists need to be improved as well.
But as a car driver, if you are behind a cyclist and know if you hit him its your fault, you would give them a lot more room when passing, be aware of pulling out of junctions ect, as thats most common cause of serious accidents. Car at T junction, pulls out, not seeing the cyclist, happened to friend of mine TWICE in as many months. Second time he ended up going over the roof of the car! :o
You are making up scenarios that are clearly biased. I personally do give cyclists room and hopefully have road awareness and anticipation but if one runs into the back of me for any reason why should he as a road users be treated any differently ???
Let me help you here, HE SHOULDN'T :y You can't have one rule for car drivers and another for cyclists :y
It's called The Highway Code :y :y
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I've witnessed my "made up scenarios" many times over the years cycling in London, try cycling to work next week. See how that affects your opinion ;)
You also might want to give a copy of highway code to most Audi drivers ::)
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i ve cycled to the car the morning after a good night out and its bloody scary, the sight and the experience, was so glad to reach the car and put away the bike :) in fact gave the bike away a short time later
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the best type of drivers and riders must be those that use both a car and a bike
the worst type or should i say the people more likley to have any form of incident is people who just drive a car and people who just ride a bike and have no appreciation of the other probably
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I've witnessed my "made up scenarios" many times over the years cycling in London, try cycling to work next week. See how that affects your opinion ;)
You also might want to give a copy of highway code to most Audi drivers ::)
I'll also add your scenarios scenario are clearly biased Cleggy, as you only appear to be concerned with someone running into the back of you when there are many other types of collisions, such as T bone ;)
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maybe hes been ramed from behind before :o :o by a bike
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I've witnessed my "made up scenarios" many times over the years cycling in London, try cycling to work next week. See how that affects your opinion ;)
You also might want to give a copy of highway code to most Audi drivers ::)
Before I retired I used to 10 miles a day. ;)
Now all the scenarios you give could apply to car v car as well as car v cycle and yes some car drivers are arsewipes and so are some cyclists.
Each equally to blame so in any given situation someone is at fault, if a car runs into a cyclist it is his fault, if a cyclist runs into a car it is his fault not the car driver. :y :y
I gave an example of a clear cut incident, if I was driving down a major road and a cyclist came out of a side road into the side of me whose fault is it? There are all types of collision. :(
No Paul I haven't, nor have I rammed a bike up the arse, it is an example of clear cut blame according to the insurance companies, even when some prat in a car pulls from a side road into a major road in front of you and immediately brakes. When you ram him it is your fault :(
Why should a cyclist damage my car and not be insured ???
The reason I started this thread were news reports proposing that in all cases of an RTC involving a cyclist the motorist was to blame, which I find bloody ridiculous. I did not intend this to turn into the usual cyclist versus motorist thread :y
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my 2p's worth .... Any law that automatically states who is right or wrong without investigating the circumstances cannot be correct. Goes against all principles of justice. :(
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As i get older i think for what it would cost all vehicle should be fitted with cameras.
watched an interesting one well not interesting this guy apparently on a bike :-X videos himself to and from work and without being anti bike he must go out of his way to have a go at motorist to catch it on his camera only he did to mr van man who chased him up the road, accused the guy of cutting him up when overtaking and he was not even close to him, which a lot of it could be down to adrenalin maybe or too much energy drink
i do think though as the post if it is going to be automatically the cars fault it will open up a whole tin of worms and camecarsy bikers
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I've witnessed my "made up scenarios" many times over the years cycling in London, try cycling to work next week. See how that affects your opinion ;)
You also might want to give a copy of highway code to most Audi drivers ::)
I gave an example of a clear cut incident, if I was driving down a major road and a cyclist came out of a side road into the side of me whose fault is it? There are all types of collision. :(
I did not intend this to turn into the usual cyclist versus motorist thread :y
Exactly all kinds of incidents, I can't help but feel that if unless proved otherwise this rule would make car drivers give cyclists more room. Likewise cyclists need to give cars more room and read the road head, many times I've eased up or stopped on a hunch that a car did not see me. Often get it right.
my 2p's worth .... Any law that automatically states who is right or wrong without investigating the circumstances cannot be correct. Goes against all principles of justice. :(
Wonder how Eurolands law works?
Something like this is clearly the guy on the bike not slowing quick enough....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpEovP1naoE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpEovP1naoE)
Surely same would happen in countries where this rule exists? :-\
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assh+les come in all shapes and sizes,some walk,some drive and some ride bikes,how can you blame one group against another?
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Sounds like it'll play into the hands of insurance scammers, to me. Just wobble along on a bike, stage an incident where you wobble into the side of a car and claim they didn't give you any room, etc. Fabricate some witness statements. Driver automatically at fault. £2k compensation for a couple of bruises and a scratch on your bike. It will never work here.
. and forget cyclists ever paying road tax or insurance. The last thing that will ever happen in this age of CO2 targets, etc. is any additional barriers against green forms of transport. ;)
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I hear a lot of complaints about cyclists riding on pavements. I also hear complaints about cyclists not using lanes despite the reasons given above. I also hear that I should not be on the road on my bike because I dont have insurance or don't pay RFl.
The facts are:
at least 75% of all cycle lanes are useless and I would say about 50% are downright dangerous,
the highway code and the law says I can choose whether to use the cycle path or the road,
I have CYCLE insurance with up to £2m 3rd party liability,
car insurance companies will always fight harder against a claim from a cyclist in an accident as opposed to a motorist*,
in an accident with a car a cyclist will ALWAYS come off worse,
I pay RFL on 2 cars,
a pothole can cause light damage on a car,
a pothole can seriously hurt or even kill cyclists,
the police don't care about cyclists until they get hurt or hurt somebody (which is wrong)
I have lost too many friends and family who were hit by cars while they were cycling, NOTE: I did not say who were hit by cyclists while driving cars.
* unless there is video evidence in which case they pay out pretty quick
Personally I don't care if anyone thinks I shouldn't be cycling on the road I have as much right to be there as anyone else, both legally and morally. I share the road, follow the rules and most motorists are pretty well behaved, but it only takes one idiot to f%$k around with my life expectancy. I dont paint all motorists with the same brush as those few idiot ones so why tar all cyclists with the same brush as those cyclists who ride like idiots?
Oh F£$k it, carry on being bigoted. I dont care about this argument anymore, I have better things to do with my time.
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my 2p's worth .... Any law that automatically states who is right or wrong without investigating the circumstances cannot be correct. Goes against all principles of justice. :(
Nail on head.Renders previous three pages meaningless.No intelligent being could argue otherwise imo.
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my 2p's worth .... Any law that automatically states who is right or wrong without investigating the circumstances cannot be correct. Goes against all principles of justice. :(
Exactly right mare=Innocent until proven guilty
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my 2p's worth .... Any law that automatically states who is right or wrong without investigating the circumstances cannot be correct. Goes against all principles of justice. :(
The voice of reason and common sense strikes again!! :y
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A tractor has no control on how wide it is. Single file cycling gives the motorist more chance of over taking......cycling 3 wide or even 2 wide makes it a whole lot harder to overtake......and is just selfish behaviour imo.....what difference does it make to the cyclist if he's following another??
It may have been an event......but you still have to be considerate to other road users....yes??
2 wide is within highway code :)
Also given they were quite close to the speed limit, I don't see the problem. It forces cars to go around you, rather than letting them blast past with mm's to spare, which happened a lot.
There were 300 of us, so even if you over-took a few, had quite a few more bikes in front of you.
3 abreast (wide) isn't, and 30mph is not close to 40mph speed limit. Thats just being inconsiderate to other road users ::)
And I agree with Entwoods post :y
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my 2p's worth .... Any law that automatically states who is right or wrong without investigating the circumstances cannot be correct. Goes against all principles of justice. :(
Exactly right mare=[highlight]Innocent until proven guilty
[/highlight]
Didn't I state that in my first post ??? :y :y :y :y
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3 abreast (wide) isn't, and 30mph is not close to 40mph speed limit. Thats just being inconsiderate to other road users ::)
And I agree with Entwoods post :y
Does a car driver have a right to be doing the speed limit at all times, then? ???
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3 abreast (wide) isn't, and 30mph is not close to 40mph speed limit. Thats just being inconsiderate to other road users ::)
And I agree with Entwoods post :y
Does a car driver have a right to be doing the speed limit at all times, then? ???
The key word is "limit" it's not a target. It's a limit. Thays what my old driving instructor said. You dot have to drive bang on the limit. A tractor is at least 6 bikes wide and would be doing half the speed, that's inconsiderate as well.
It was a big team thing, riding together giving each other encouragement as we went. I pay enough road tax to enjoy roads on my bike, if drivers on road disagree with that. Well then tough, go around me, just wait then push pedal a little harder to go around us!
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I've witnessed my "made up scenarios" many times over the years cycling in London, try cycling to work next week. See how that affects your opinion ;)
You also might want to give a copy of highway code to most Audi drivers ::)
I'll also add your scenarios scenario are clearly biased Cleggy, as you only appear to be concerned with someone running into the back of you when there are many other types of collisions, such as T bone ;)
I cycle into central London everyday. The number of cyclists without helmets, lights, running red lights/pedestrian crossings, riding 3-4 abreast, sneaking around the nearside of large trucks are much greater than the number of cyclists who obey the law like me. I have yet to cut a red light. If I am really impatient, I dismount and walk across the pedestrian crossing. Very often there will be perhaps one or two others waiting at the lights whilst most cut red lights. This is my observation whilst cycling myself.
Yes there are badly behaved motorists as well. But the proportion of idiots on cycles seems much higher. I have witnessed quite a few who have clipped car mirrors/bumpers and ride away knowing full well that the car driver cannot catch up with them in London traffic. Accountability seems to be a low priority for these cyclists. Yet a fair few of them have helmet cams that they will use to post on youtube to complain about car drivers. As you say it needs to be a 2 way street.
The standards seem a lot better the more you move away from the centre of London. I was driving in Bromley today and the cyclists all seemed very well behaved and courteous.
There are idiots in cars that make my blood boil as well. Here is one example:
http://road.cc/content/news/81677-no-charges-road-rage-van-driver-who-assaulted-cyclist-video-incident (http://road.cc/content/news/81677-no-charges-road-rage-van-driver-who-assaulted-cyclist-video-incident)
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A little common sense from both sides around here would help.
On the green aspect, I have often wondered if cycles using the road where a perfectly good cycle way has been provided (usually half a wide pavement here) then there must be more energy wasted by the cars braking and accelerating around the cyclist doing 20 on a 50 section of road than is saved by the cycling?
I do cycle, but find doing so on roads not especially relaxing!
Back to the original question, I don't see how either party in any road incident can be to blame by default. It must be investigated properly and blame determined.
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I'm going to be getting on my bike this year but i'll do it down the country lanes where i'll not be a danger to anyone else or myself ::)
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I think that cyclists totally have the right to be on the road too, however there are some idiots out there, just as there is in cars. Although I don't agree that every accident should be blamed on the car driver, that's like saying every accident on the road should be blamed on a van driver, stupid.
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Cycylists in london can be a right pain in the arse with the attitude of sod the law of the road they should be mafe to have insurance and pay tax they want respect and the right to use the road well bloody pay for it like cars have to
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well tbh last weekend i nearly had two lycra clad loons as bonnet mascots riding two a breast holding all the traffic up...you want to ride like in front me...fine...but you will come off and trust these two tits wont do it again as behind me was a kent plod traffic unit and he pulled them over and i stopped as well to make a complaint against them...well i left as mr plod was doing a spot of finger wagging...mind you never did get too find out tosser on bike called me...well as i told him he was entitled to his opinion but mine is your an arse... :y
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well tbh last weekend i nearly had two lycra clad loons as bonnet mascots riding two a breast holding all the traffic up...you want to ride like in front me...fine...but you will come off and trust these two tits wont do it again as behind me was a kent plod traffic unit and he pulled them over and i stopped as well to make a complaint against them...well i left as mr plod was doing a spot of finger wagging...mind you never did get too find out tosser on bike called me...well as i told him he was entitled to his opinion but mine is your an arse... :y
Oh no holding traffic up. ::)
Riding two a breast is totally legal. ;)
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well tbh last weekend i nearly had two lycra clad loons as bonnet mascots riding two a breast holding all the traffic up...you want to ride like in front me...fine...but you will come off and trust these two tits wont do it again as behind me was a kent plod traffic unit and he pulled them over and i stopped as well to make a complaint against them...well i left as mr plod was doing a spot of finger wagging...mind you never did get too find out tosser on bike called me...well as i told him he was entitled to his opinion but mine is your an arse... :y
Oh no holding traffic up. ::)
Riding two a breast is totally legal. ;)
66
You should
.....
never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends
https://www.gov.uk/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82
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Road never stated, just stated riding two up. ;)
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Road never stated, just stated riding two up. ;)
I know, but there are rules, common sense & ignorance.
Where there are hoards of lycra louts racing on small B roads taking up the whole lane, it should be permissible to mow them down!! ::) ::) ::)
And if there were just two abreast & holding up the traffic, the implication was that the road wasn't big enough to ridden 2 abreast on
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Taking up the whole lane is one thing, fully agree there. Two tucked up close on the inside is another, I know another tactic of 2 side by side is to force cars to slow and go around. As single file its easy to slice by very close, I know some who do it clearly to make cars slow, which not legal I know.
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So if it's going to be the law that in an accident between a car and a bicycle it's always the car's fault, will this reasoning carry on up the chain? :-\
So if a car hits a van, it's the vans fault, if a van hits a rigid truck then it's the rigid's fault and if the rigid hit's an arctic then it's the arctic's fault? ::)
Yet more poorly thought out nonsense from...... Ooops nearly got political there!!! :o Sorry chaps!!! ;D
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Road never stated, just stated riding two up. ;)
well the road would have been busy...if anyone could get around them... :y
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...On the green aspect, I have often wondered if cycles using the road where a perfectly good cycle way has been provided (usually half a wide pavement here) then there must be more energy wasted by the cars braking and accelerating around the cyclist doing 20 on a 50 section of road than is saved by the cycling?...
The problem is, I've never seen a cycle way that's fit for purpose. Even an asthmatic salad dodger like myself is going to average 15-20 MPH on a road bike and only drop significantly below that on climbs. Try negotiating the average cycle lane at that sort of speed! Not to mention the fact that the average cycle lane requires you to stop and give way at every side road, footpath, etc. Just a pointless box-ticking "we're cycle friendly" exercise by local councils IMHO. The road is the right place for cycles.
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...On the green aspect, I have often wondered if cycles using the road where a perfectly good cycle way has been provided (usually half a wide pavement here) then there must be more energy wasted by the cars braking and accelerating around the cyclist doing 20 on a 50 section of road than is saved by the cycling?...
The problem is, I've never seen a cycle way that's fit for purpose. Even an asthmatic salad dodger like myself is going to average 15-20 MPH on a road bike and only drop significantly below that on climbs. Try negotiating the average cycle lane at that sort of speed! Not to mention the fact that the average cycle lane requires you to stop and give way at every side road, footpath, etc. Just a pointless box-ticking "we're cycle friendly" exercise by local councils IMHO. The road is the right place for cycles.
Exactly, the section from BSkyB's office down to Chiswick is a prime example, it often wonders in then out again, very rough. Some cases it actually goes through bus stops, so you have to slow, look over your shoulder to see if a bus will want to dive into it.
Then there is the roundabout just before the Audi Garage, it has no lights to cross for pedestrians, or cycles. You have to run across in a gap in the traffic. They go to all the bother of painting a cycle path, give way signs and everything, reaching that in rush hour is like a wall!
Street View: http://goo.gl/maps/IxHS7 (http://goo.gl/maps/IxHS7)
On hybrid tyres, top gear, I can easily cruise 25mph+
If I had a full on road bike, I could easily do 35mph!
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This is a good example: http://goo.gl/maps/YiDb8 (http://goo.gl/maps/YiDb8)
Follow the road up to the roundabout... watch the Cycle lane & the amount of give way/junctions to cross.
You will notice that shortly before Chiswick Roundabout, which is just like a country round one ::)
The cycle lane just ends!
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This is a good example: http://goo.gl/maps/YiDb8 (http://goo.gl/maps/YiDb8)
Follow the road up to the roundabout... watch the Cycle lane & the amount of give way/junctions to cross.
You will notice that shortly before Chiswick Roundabout, which is just like a country round one ::)
The cycle lane just ends!
Yep, exactly the sort of thing I had in mind. They've got to be joking if they thing cyclists will jump through those hoops, especially when the road looks busy enough that you could probably keep up with the traffic on a bike most of the time.
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At the end of the day the road network has been built/designed for cars and the cycle lanes added on where possible. Which granted is a compromise. :-\
What would you suggest? A wholesale redesign costing billions to accommodate group of road users who don't pay the road fund licence on their vehicle? ::)
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Better education of drivers to be more patient, give more room on the road :)
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Better consideration for your fellow travellers by all road users would be a good start!! :)
Better education for cyclists as well. ie When will cyclists learn that it's not a good idea to cut up the inside of an HGV? ::)
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Think I need one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJXXckWLc0E&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJXXckWLc0E&feature=player_embedded)
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Think I need one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJXXckWLc0E&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJXXckWLc0E&feature=player_embedded)
that would be a distance to fall...what happens if he needs to stop..he cant put his foot down
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Saw that video a few days back. Amazing stuff. Although the same cannot be said about his trousers.
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Saw that video a few days back. Amazing stuff. Although the same cannot be said about his trousers.
Certainly by the time he'd reached his destination, at any rate. :o
Fair play to him.. I'd need seriously enlarged gonads to tackle the traffic in LA on my sensible bike, let alone that thing. ;D
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Just got back from a week in Cornwall, drove into Looe on Sunday 21st Spoilt my day completely :'( I got tangled up with a cycle event, I saw at least 100. First I saw of them, they were pouring out of a minor road onto the A387, the road I was on, they could see me coming but continued to pour out almost defying me to hit them, if I dare, I had almost stopped, eventually they gave way. Followed them into Looe, they were racing, crazy, one point they were four abreast, at one point the outside rider was the wrong side of the double white line on a blind right hand bend, I was hoping he would reappear stuck to the front of a bus, Tom and Jerry fashion. Headed for the car park, over the bridge, on the the West Looe side, signalled to turn right into car park, was over taken on the right, road narrow, he could not wait, spose it would have been my fault if I had turned into him :'(
Walked into East Looe had to cross a controlled pedestrian crossing. Waited for the green man and crossed, as is my right, we were suddenly surround by cyclists, not one stopped at the red light, only just missing us. My wife is 74 and only 8st if any one of them had hit her, well I don't want to think >:(
Made a bit of a fool of myself shouted at them as they went past, spectators thought it was funny, wife pulled me away. Not one of the Cyclist looked back. Any event like this should be banned on public roads, Kilotogo or something like.
This was not the idiotic few who were not bothered, they were all at it, all caught up in the event!!!! road safety! PHEW *:"~ that >:(
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It looks like the country's infrastructure WILL be changed at vast expense to suit cyclists! ::)
'Dutch roundabouts' where cars have to give way to cyclists are being tested and may be introduced in London next year! :o
That's really going to help congestion in the capital :-\ and I bet the dastardly EU have a hand in this somewhere.... >:(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22347184
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Good idea they are :y
Can only see it being at a handful of places though.
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I think it's a crap idea to be honest and I can see more cyclist injuries as motorists won't realise that they have to give way.... :(
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In York this morning, a cyclist went through a red light and bounced off the front of a van going through on green,
lots of witnesses I bet the cyclist claims he was in the right.
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This was filmed this afternoon in Aldershot and shows the type of behaviour I see on a regular basis from motorists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqXlKrk8Os4&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqXlKrk8Os4&feature=youtu.be)
I was doing a moderate speed of around 20mph approaching a roundabout and signalling to turn left. The car behind just had to overtake even though this put me in a dangerous situation as the road narrows at the roundabout with a traffic island.
My choices:
a) slam on brakes, not knowing if the car behind this idiot has seen me (potentially dangerous to me)
b) swerve out to the idiot standing my ground but dont know if there is anything to his right like a motorcyclist (potentially dangerous to someone else)
c) stand my ground and make eye/verbal contact forcing him to back off. You can probably just make out I shouted "What are you doing?"
I chose c) and got a toot of the horn for my troubles. In retrospect I probably should have taken more of the road i.e. held position further out in the middle of the lane to dominate the road and try to prevent the temptation of the motorist to do this.
BUT! This is what a lot of motorists complain about with us 'bloomin cyclists' in the middle of the road. I hope this explains a little better why this is a necessary technique :-\
Edit: video link now working :y
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There are arse wipes on the road from both sides.
The major point IMHO is that car drivers are insured and pay the road fund license cyclist don't. So if in lycra obey the highway code, and don't think that you own the road. :y
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There are arse wipes on the road from both sides.
The major point IMHO is that car drivers are insured and pay the road fund license cyclist don't. So if in lycra obey the highway code, and don't think that you own the road. :y
I pay 2 lots of road tax. One on the jag and one on the Focus. So that point is mute.
And I will own the road when it is to ensure my safety :y
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i pay 3 lots of road tax and i havent even got a bike, so there is a cyclist some where who does not own a car being subsidised by me :D :D ;)
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i pay 3 lots of road tax and i havent even got a bike, so there is a cyclist some where who does not own a car being subsidised by me :D :D ;)
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Of course if all RFL went to the upkeep of our roads then we'd have fantastic roads which were friendly for al. Alas I suspect less than 10% of it actually goes to maintaining britains roadways :(
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i pay 3 lots of road tax and i havent even got a bike, so there is a cyclist some where who does not own a car being subsidised by me :D :D ;)
Must be somewhere ...... I subsidise my none car driving son with my 3 lots of road tax :y :y
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Of course if all RFL went to the upkeep of our roads then we'd have fantastic roads which were friendly for al. Alas I suspect less than 10% of it actually goes to maintaining britains roadways :(
Unfortunately it's been VED for a long long time ???
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Of course if all RFL went to the upkeep of our roads then we'd have fantastic roads which were friendly for al. Alas I suspect less than 10% of it actually goes to maintaining britains roadways :(
Unfortunately it's been VED for a long long time ???
And I think that is a major cause of the problems
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This was filmed this afternoon in Aldershot and shows the type of behaviour I see on a regular basis from motorists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqXlKrk8Os4&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqXlKrk8Os4&feature=youtu.be)
I was doing a moderate speed of around 20mph approaching a roundabout and signalling to turn left. The car behind just had to overtake even though this put me in a dangerous situation as the road narrows at the roundabout with a traffic island.
My choices:
a) slam on brakes, not knowing if the car behind this idiot has seen me (potentially dangerous to me)
b) swerve out to the idiot standing my ground but dont know if there is anything to his right like a motorcyclist (potentially dangerous to someone else)
c) stand my ground and make eye/verbal contact forcing him to back off. You can probably just make out I shouted "What are you doing?"
I chose c) and got a toot of the horn for my troubles. In retrospect I probably should have taken more of the road i.e. held position further out in the middle of the lane to dominate the road and try to prevent the temptation of the motorist to do this.
BUT! This is what a lot of motorists complain about with us 'bloomin cyclists' in the middle of the road. I hope this explains a little better why this is a necessary technique :-\
Edit: video link now working :y
blimey no wonder you got beeped you need some road mate must be a wide load :o :o also noted the swevering to miss the man holes you probably cut that poor motorist up several times before the rounderbout ;)
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Road tax is for when you're driving vehicles that pollute. Not relevant to cyclists whatsoever.
Take as much of the road as you need to be safe. A cyclist can control the amount of road to his left, but not to his right. You just need to judge the clearance required, then double it. ;)
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This was filmed this afternoon in Aldershot and shows the type of behaviour I see on a regular basis from motorists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqXlKrk8Os4&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqXlKrk8Os4&feature=youtu.be)
I was doing a moderate speed of around 20mph approaching a roundabout and signalling to turn left. The car behind just had to overtake even though this put me in a dangerous situation as the road narrows at the roundabout with a traffic island.
My choices:
a) slam on brakes, not knowing if the car behind this idiot has seen me (potentially dangerous to me)
b) swerve out to the idiot standing my ground but dont know if there is anything to his right like a motorcyclist (potentially dangerous to someone else)
c) stand my ground and make eye/verbal contact forcing him to back off. You can probably just make out I shouted "What are you doing?"
I chose c) and got a toot of the horn for my troubles. In retrospect I probably should have taken more of the road i.e. held position further out in the middle of the lane to dominate the road and try to prevent the temptation of the motorist to do this.
BUT! This is what a lot of motorists complain about with us 'bloomin cyclists' in the middle of the road. I hope this explains a little better why this is a necessary technique :-\
Edit: video link now working :y
blimey no wonder you got beeped you need some road mate must be a wide load :o :o also noted the swevering to miss the man holes you probably cut that poor motorist up several times before the rounderbout ;)
Agreed, you were all over the road
Any further out and you'd be on the wrong side of the road ;)
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It's not easy dodging all the potholes and bumps, ever tried riding over them on a racing bike? I was hardly all over the road and certainly not that far out.
I think that a 2m gap should be given when overtaking cyclists ::)
Or was the motorist justified in trying to cut me up at the junction like that? ???
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It's not easy dodging all the potholes and bumps, ever tried riding over them on a racing bike? I was hardly all over the road and certainly not that far out.
I think that a 2m gap should be given when overtaking cyclists ::)
Or was the motorist justified in trying to cut me up at the junction like that? ???
dont think you should be allowed on the road myself too dangerous going to have a word with some one about you after all i pay 3 lots of road tax you know :o ;)
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It's not easy dodging all the potholes and bumps, ever tried riding over them on a racing bike? I was hardly all over the road and certainly not that far out.
I think that a 2m gap should be given when overtaking cyclists ::)
Or was the motorist justified in trying to cut me up at the junction like that? ???
dont think you should be allowed on the road myself too dangerous going to have a word with some one about you after all i pay 3 lots of road tax you know :o ;)
true, your 3 beats my 2..... fair cop.....I'll just go and hand myself in shall I? ;D
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beat youself first then hand yourself in :D ;D ;D ;D :y
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Road tax is for when you're driving vehicles that pollute. Not relevant to cyclists whatsoever.
Take as much of the road as you need to be safe. A cyclist can control the amount of road to his left, but not to his right. You just need to judge the clearance required, then double it. ;)
Some of colourful outfits cyclists wear are pollution ::) ::) ;D ;D
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It's not easy dodging all the potholes and bumps, ever tried riding over them on a racing bike? I was hardly all over the road and certainly not that far out.
I think that a 2m gap should be given when overtaking cyclists ::)
Or was the motorist justified in trying to cut me up at the junction like that? ???
He probably thought you were pissed, swerving all over the place like that!! :o ;D
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i think it was probably a local gay boy out on the pull saw clearly what was a wobbling set of large buttocks in some tight lycra hot pants and well the rest is probably history :o :o ::)
he tried the same sort of thing with me a newent bending over in his tight karkee hot pants erecting his poles for his pink tent was like some cheap tart performing on stage, holly looked interested as she saw a little chipolata poking out of his shorts now and again, doggy was not interested though to much exersize for what was not even a mouth full he was stuck to Bob Dent Like shite to one of stumpos blanket whilst he cooked the food on the bbq
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It's not easy dodging all the potholes and bumps, ever tried riding over them on a racing bike? I was hardly all over the road and certainly not that far out.
I think that a 2m gap should be given when overtaking cyclists ::)
Or was the motorist justified in trying to cut me up at the junction like that? ???
And vice versa. But hold on, them MAMIL's wont have anything to do with that. Its a one way street isn't it? You needs to leave a 2m gap when overtaking me, but I can filter and knock/scratch/block your way and I am always right.
Exactly why despite being a cyclist myself, I hate those bloody MAMILs' !
And a red light means STOP! How many motorists do you see blatantly cutting red lights?