Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: MR MISTER on 24 September 2013, 15:51:46

Title: BT fibre optic question
Post by: MR MISTER on 24 September 2013, 15:51:46
Today some workmen came and removed the cab at the end of our road, so I presume everything is now routed through the new 'infinity' cab they placed at the other side of the road.
So, when you take up infinity fibre thingy, does the optic cable run to your residence or just from the nearest cab back to the exchange?
And, if the cable back to the exchange is fibre optic, then everyone must be connected to it (as i cant see the point in running a copper cable as well), so what is limiting your bb speed if you are on a fibre cable?
That's enough, getting a headache now.
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 24 September 2013, 15:55:08
No Steve, BT leave the current copper cable to relay the signals from that (fibre optic) cabinet  in the road into your property. :) :)

I was told by an Open Reach engineer that to run fibre optic cable into my property would cost £20,000! ::) ::) ::) ;)
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: MR MISTER on 24 September 2013, 15:56:09
No Steve, BT leave the current copper cable to relay the signals from that (fibre optic) cabinet  in the road into your property. :) :)
Yeah...but from the cab to the exchange?
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 24 September 2013, 15:57:13
No Steve, BT leave the current copper cable to relay the signals from that (fibre optic) cabinet  in the road into your property. :) :)
Yeah...but from the cab to the exchange?

As I understand that will now be fibre optic cable ;)
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: MR MISTER on 24 September 2013, 16:00:57
No Steve, BT leave the current copper cable to relay the signals from that (fibre optic) cabinet  in the road into your property. :) :)
Yeah...but from the cab to the exchange?

As I understand that will now be fibre optic cable ;)
Well thats what I said then, isn't it? ;D
So whether you subscribe to fibre or not, you get a copper pair from your house, via a DP, to the cab and
then fibre to the exchange. What limits your bb speed?
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: Gaffers on 24 September 2013, 16:10:03
The problem with copper transmission is attenuation, the longer distance you transmit the more the signal degrades.  How much varies with the quality of the copper, the quality of the instllation and any external RF interferance.

Fibre does not suffer the same speed/distance issues but it is expensive to lay, thus to save costs a lot of installations take fibre to the cabinet (FTTC) and copper to the house improving the overall speed to the residence.  If your connection to the cab is poor then you will get an improvement but not as good as it could be.
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 24 September 2013, 17:01:44
No Steve, BT leave the current copper cable to relay the signals from that (fibre optic) cabinet  in the road into your property. :) :)

I was told by an Open Reach engineer that to run fibre optic cable into my property would cost £20,000! ::) ::) ::) ;)

And hence why there not real engineers with statements like that!
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 24 September 2013, 17:03:58
Fibre does not suffer the same speed/distance

Oh yes it does and it costs about the same as cable to install plus can carry a monsterous bandwidth.
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: aaronjb on 24 September 2013, 17:30:34
Infinity & Infinity 2 (38Mb & 76Mb) are FTTC - Fibre To The Cab (and copper to your house, but nobody shouts about that bit) - speed limited by the distance from your house to the cab plus cable type, number of splices, quality of joints etc.

Ultrafast Infinity (up to 330Mb) is FTTP - Fibre To The Premise zero copper involved* but is only available at a limited number of trial sites (some new housing developments are being cabled for this at build time - a colleague here at work has it, in fact).

*Until it turns into Ethernet in your house, of course, and within the various bits of electronic kit along the line, before anyone gets pedantic ;D

Ultrafast - http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/broadband/faster-internet
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: steve6367 on 24 September 2013, 18:00:25
If you don't take infinity your still on copper to the exchange.

If you buy infinity they jumper your house to cabinet copper over to the fibre cabinet so you get faster speed :-)
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: Entwood on 24 September 2013, 18:20:32
If you don't take infinity your still on copper to the exchange.

If you buy infinity they jumper your house to cabinet copper over to the fibre cabinet so you get faster speed :-)

That would make sense ...if the OP hadn't have written

Quote
Today some workmen came and removed the cab at the end of our road

which is the essence of his question ......    :)

In simple terms .."if the copper cabinet has been removed, what is now limiting my speed" ..  :)
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: cleggy on 24 September 2013, 18:23:11
So if you want fast there is only Virgin ?
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 24 September 2013, 18:27:39
If you don't take infinity your still on copper to the exchange.

If you buy infinity they jumper your house to cabinet copper over to the fibre cabinet so you get faster speed :-)

That would make sense ...if the OP hadn't have written

Quote
Today some workmen came and removed the cab at the end of our road

which is the essence of his question ......    :)

In simple terms .."if the copper cabinet has been removed, what is now limiting my speed" ..  :)

A man in the exchange with a row of knobs......you dont pay for speed, knob get turned to slow......you pay, knob get turned to fast  ;) :)
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: bigegg on 24 September 2013, 18:29:10
If you don't take infinity your still on copper to the exchange.

If you buy infinity they jumper your house to cabinet copper over to the fibre cabinet so you get faster speed :-)

That would make sense ...if the OP hadn't have written

Quote
Today some workmen came and removed the cab at the end of our road

which is the essence of his question ......    :)

In simple terms .."if the copper cabinet has been removed, what is now limiting my speed" ..  :)

From what I can gather - a different router + what TaxiDriver said.
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: steve6367 on 24 September 2013, 18:31:04
If the copper cabinet has been removed then the copper will have been moved to the new cabinet and still be used unless you buy FTC.

They can't remove the copper as it is needed for the phone line part even with FTC - you can't have a fixed line that stops working when the power goes off (it would if using the FTC).

Steve
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: MR MISTER on 24 September 2013, 18:50:49
If you don't take infinity your still on copper to the exchange.

If you buy infinity they jumper your house to cabinet copper over to the fibre cabinet so you get faster speed :-)

That would make sense ...if the OP hadn't have written

Quote
Today some workmen came and removed the cab at the end of our road

which is the essence of his question ......    :)

In simple terms .."if the copper cabinet has been removed, what is now limiting my speed" ..  :)
Thank you, Nigel, thank you.
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: MR MISTER on 24 September 2013, 18:52:13
If the copper cabinet has been removed then the copper will have been moved to the new cabinet and still be used unless you buy FTC.

They can't remove the copper as it is needed for the phone line part even with FTC - you can't have a fixed line that stops working when the power goes off (it would if using the FTC).

Steve
Aha.....thank you, Steve :y
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: Entwood on 24 September 2013, 19:06:38
If the copper cabinet has been removed then the copper will have been moved to the new cabinet and still be used unless you buy FTC.

They can't remove the copper as it is needed for the phone line part even with FTC - you can't have a fixed line that stops working when the power goes off (it would if using the FTC).

Steve
Aha.....thank you, Steve :y

and as that actually makes a lot of sense .. a thank you from me as well ..  :y :y :)
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: Gaffers on 24 September 2013, 19:12:58
Fibre does not suffer the same speed/distance

Oh yes it does and it costs about the same as cable to install plus can carry a monsterous bandwidth.

I didn't say it doesn't  ::)  Just that it doesn't suffer the same issues that copper has
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: TheBoy on 24 September 2013, 19:24:16
To clarify:

With FTTC (Infinity 1 or Infinity 2 in BT Retail speak), you will still have a copper pair all the way back to your local exchange, for voice. As BT Wholesale do not offer any options that do not include voice capability, thats non negotiable, no matter which ISP.

Also with FTTC, there will be a fibre cable from the new cabinet to the serving exchange, which may or may not be your local exchange - mine is 12 miles away.

The copper voice and the fibre data are joined at the cabinet, and sent down the copper to your home.

Its unusual to remove the old cabinet though, that normally stays put, as it holds your E and D sides, with a tie cable to the new cab for joining into the mini DSLAM.


FTTP does not offer voice, so a fibre from your serving exchange straight to home, spliced as near as possible to your home. This is expected to be offered to all FTTC in the not too distant future, with an install cost around £1k

Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: TheBoy on 24 September 2013, 19:24:58
Obviously, with FTTP, if you want a landline, you have to get a normal copper line in, or VoIP.
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: MR MISTER on 24 September 2013, 19:29:10
To clarify:

With FTTC (Infinity 1 or Infinity 2 in BT Retail speak), you will still have a copper pair all the way back to your local exchange, for voice. As BT Wholesale do not offer any options that do not include voice capability, thats non negotiable, no matter which ISP.

Also with FTTC, there will be a fibre cable from the new cabinet to the serving exchange, which may or may not be your local exchange - mine is 12 miles away.

The copper voice and the fibre data are joined at the cabinet, and sent down the copper to your home.

Its unusual to remove the old cabinet though, that normally stays put, as it holds your E and D sides, with a tie cable to the new cab for joining into the mini DSLAM.


FTTP does not offer voice, so a fibre from your serving exchange straight to home, spliced as near as possible to your home. This is expected to be offered to all FTTC in the not too distant future, with an install cost around £1k
I'm happy now. :) please answer in a more timely manner in future.
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: Gaffers on 24 September 2013, 19:33:44
To clarify:

With FTTC (Infinity 1 or Infinity 2 in BT Retail speak), you will still have a copper pair all the way back to your local exchange, for voice. As BT Wholesale do not offer any options that do not include voice capability, thats non negotiable, no matter which ISP.

Also with FTTC, there will be a fibre cable from the new cabinet to the serving exchange, which may or may not be your local exchange - mine is 12 miles away.

The copper voice and the fibre data are joined at the cabinet, and sent down the copper to your home.

Its unusual to remove the old cabinet though, that normally stays put, as it holds your E and D sides, with a tie cable to the new cab for joining into the mini DSLAM.


FTTP does not offer voice, so a fibre from your serving exchange straight to home, spliced as near as possible to your home. This is expected to be offered to all FTTC in the not too distant future, with an install cost around £1k
I'm happy now. :) please answer in a more timely manner in future.

He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: MR MISTER on 24 September 2013, 19:36:48
To clarify:

With FTTC (Infinity 1 or Infinity 2 in BT Retail speak), you will still have a copper pair all the way back to your local exchange, for voice. As BT Wholesale do not offer any options that do not include voice capability, thats non negotiable, no matter which ISP.

Also with FTTC, there will be a fibre cable from the new cabinet to the serving exchange, which may or may not be your local exchange - mine is 12 miles away.

The copper voice and the fibre data are joined at the cabinet, and sent down the copper to your home.

Its unusual to remove the old cabinet though, that normally stays put, as it holds your E and D sides, with a tie cable to the new cab for joining into the mini DSLAM.


FTTP does not offer voice, so a fibre from your serving exchange straight to home, spliced as near as possible to your home. This is expected to be offered to all FTTC in the not too distant future, with an install cost around £1k
I'm happy now. :) please answer in a more timely manner in future.

He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

;D ;D
They just don't make them like that any more.
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: Gaffers on 24 September 2013, 19:43:28
Saw it on Netflicks and I couldn't 'passover' it  ;D
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: TheBoy on 24 September 2013, 19:58:04
Always look on the bright side of life...
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: SIR Philbutt on 24 September 2013, 21:43:50
We are not able to get any fast broadband on our estate as the local cab is not suitable yet and no one knows when

So I had a thought of getting a 3g/4g MIFI to use as my internet connection for the house.

Not researched it yet so no idea of annual costs and potential speed with xbox, PS3, desktop, tablet, phones, and 2 laptops in the house.

One positive I thought of is that I can take with me to use say on holiday (with different sim - i know)

Anybody know if this a good or bad idea ?
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: MR MISTER on 24 September 2013, 21:46:26
Glad I'm not a gamer. By the time you've bought the console, then the games and, it appears, super fasst bb is a must.
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: TheBoy on 24 September 2013, 21:47:18
Well, you'll get faster from fixed line broadband.

Mobile broadband is entirely unsuitable for gaming, due to consistency and erratic latency.
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: SIR Philbutt on 24 September 2013, 21:54:18
Glad I'm not a gamer. By the time you've bought the console, then the games and, it appears, super fasst bb is a must.

The BB copes - most of the time  ::) . I want to get more into watching stuff online and hope someday to get rid of sky and even the tv licence but will eventually need faster BB - ah well

Well, you'll get faster from fixed line broadband.

Mobile broadband is entirely unsuitable for gaming, due to consistency and erratic latency.

Thanks for that TB  :y wont waste anymore diminishing brain power on that then  ???
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: cleggy on 24 September 2013, 22:18:45
So how does Virgin work with fibre optic?. I have one cable to the house exterior box, one from that internal to the phone and another into the box for connecting to the modem/wireless thingy and I get 60 megabit broadband.   
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: steve6367 on 24 September 2013, 22:56:16
Virgin is fibre to the cabinet (the Virgin one this time) then coax and twisted pair to the house (although this is packaged and looks like one cable).

The coax does your TV and Broadband and the copper twisted pair your phone line in much the same way as a BT line.

Steve
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: cleggy on 25 September 2013, 06:16:02
Virgin is fibre to the cabinet (the Virgin one this time) then coax and twisted pair to the house (although this is packaged and looks like one cable).

The coax does your TV and Broadband and the copper twisted pair your phone line in much the same way as a BT line.

Steve

Cheers  :y :y :y
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: MR MISTER on 25 September 2013, 21:27:12
To clarify:

With FTTC (Infinity 1 or Infinity 2 in BT Retail speak), you will still have a copper pair all the way back to your local exchange, for voice. As BT Wholesale do not offer any options that do not include voice capability, thats non negotiable, no matter which ISP.

Also with FTTC, there will be a fibre cable from the new cabinet to the serving exchange, which may or may not be your local exchange - mine is 12 miles away.

The copper voice and the fibre data are joined at the cabinet, and sent down the copper to your home.

Its unusual to remove the old cabinet though, that normally stays put, as it holds your E and D sides, with a tie cable to the new cab for joining into the mini DSLAM.


FTTP does not offer voice, so a fibre from your serving exchange straight to home, spliced as near as possible to your home. This is expected to be offered to all FTTC in the not too distant future, with an install cost around £1k
They smashed up the old cast iron cab and replaced it with a pressed steel one  :y
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: TheBoy on 25 September 2013, 21:40:27
To clarify:

With FTTC (Infinity 1 or Infinity 2 in BT Retail speak), you will still have a copper pair all the way back to your local exchange, for voice. As BT Wholesale do not offer any options that do not include voice capability, thats non negotiable, no matter which ISP.

Also with FTTC, there will be a fibre cable from the new cabinet to the serving exchange, which may or may not be your local exchange - mine is 12 miles away.

The copper voice and the fibre data are joined at the cabinet, and sent down the copper to your home.

Its unusual to remove the old cabinet though, that normally stays put, as it holds your E and D sides, with a tie cable to the new cab for joining into the mini DSLAM.


FTTP does not offer voice, so a fibre from your serving exchange straight to home, spliced as near as possible to your home. This is expected to be offered to all FTTC in the not too distant future, with an install cost around £1k
They smashed up the old cast iron cab and replaced it with a pressed steel one  :y
And also a new (generally larger) fibre cabinet?
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 26 September 2013, 10:53:25
To clarify:

With FTTC (Infinity 1 or Infinity 2 in BT Retail speak), you will still have a copper pair all the way back to your local exchange, for voice. As BT Wholesale do not offer any options that do not include voice capability, thats non negotiable, no matter which ISP.

Also with FTTC, there will be a fibre cable from the new cabinet to the serving exchange, which may or may not be your local exchange - mine is 12 miles away.

The copper voice and the fibre data are joined at the cabinet, and sent down the copper to your home.

Its unusual to remove the old cabinet though, that normally stays put, as it holds your E and D sides, with a tie cable to the new cab for joining into the mini DSLAM.


FTTP does not offer voice, so a fibre from your serving exchange straight to home, spliced as near as possible to your home. This is expected to be offered to all FTTC in the not too distant future, with an install cost around £1k
They smashed up the old cast iron cab and replaced it with a pressed steel one :y

And the new one is even easier to smash up, as local examples have proved! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: MR MISTER on 26 September 2013, 11:00:54
To clarify:

With FTTC (Infinity 1 or Infinity 2 in BT Retail speak), you will still have a copper pair all the way back to your local exchange, for voice. As BT Wholesale do not offer any options that do not include voice capability, thats non negotiable, no matter which ISP.

Also with FTTC, there will be a fibre cable from the new cabinet to the serving exchange, which may or may not be your local exchange - mine is 12 miles away.

The copper voice and the fibre data are joined at the cabinet, and sent down the copper to your home.

Its unusual to remove the old cabinet though, that normally stays put, as it holds your E and D sides, with a tie cable to the new cab for joining into the mini DSLAM.


FTTP does not offer voice, so a fibre from your serving exchange straight to home, spliced as near as possible to your home. This is expected to be offered to all FTTC in the not too distant future, with an install cost around £1k
They smashed up the old cast iron cab and replaced it with a pressed steel one  :y
And also a new (generally larger) fibre cabinet?
That's the one that was already across the road. :y
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: wakeyomega on 29 September 2013, 11:19:20
Nothing to do with the thread really, but an interesting aside. Not all 'copper' is 'copper'. In the 70's, the Rhodesia crisis meant that copper was in short supply hence also expensive. The alternative used was aluminium, both for mains and telephone line cable manufacturer. As the conductive properties of aluminium are not as good as copper, high broadband speeds are difficult where aluminium was used. The bad news is that its use was never properly recorded, making it very difficult to predict broadband quality in areas developed in that decade. (I guess nobody foresaw the future use of telephone for high speed digital services, and aluminium is fine for voice, so didn't see the need to record it.)

I would assume that FTTC will resolve that as the problem is much diminished on the shorter cable run between cabinet and home, as opposed to exchange to home.

Pat
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: MR MISTER on 29 September 2013, 11:27:10
Hiya Pat.
You've got to feel sorry for the poor old cable theives. Spend hours digging up what they think is a load of copper cable, set fire to it, and it melts before their eyes. ;D
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: wakeyomega on 29 September 2013, 12:08:12
Ha
Definitely. I just wished they'd put their spade through a 132kv cable!
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: TheBoy on 29 September 2013, 19:51:43
Nothing to do with the thread really, but an interesting aside. Not all 'copper' is 'copper'. In the 70's, the Rhodesia crisis meant that copper was in short supply hence also expensive. The alternative used was aluminium, both for mains and telephone line cable manufacturer. As the conductive properties of aluminium are not as good as copper, high broadband speeds are difficult where aluminium was used. The bad news is that its use was never properly recorded, making it very difficult to predict broadband quality in areas developed in that decade. (I guess nobody foresaw the future use of telephone for high speed digital services, and aluminium is fine for voice, so didn't see the need to record it.)

I would assume that FTTC will resolve that as the problem is much diminished on the shorter cable run between cabinet and home, as opposed to exchange to home.

Pat
In the early 90s, one of the bean couting suits fairly high up proudly stated there was no more ali in the ground ;D

breakless 'tard, fortunately he didn't last long.  There is still lead in the ground  :-X
Title: Re: BT fibre optic question
Post by: AndyRoid on 29 September 2013, 19:59:08
Nothing to do with the thread really, but an interesting aside. Not all 'copper' is 'copper'. In the 70's, the Rhodesia crisis meant that copper was in short supply hence also expensive. The alternative used was aluminium, both for mains and telephone line cable manufacturer. As the conductive properties of aluminium are not as good as copper, high broadband speeds are difficult where aluminium was used. The bad news is that its use was never properly recorded, making it very difficult to predict broadband quality in areas developed in that decade. (I guess nobody foresaw the future use of telephone for high speed digital services, and aluminium is fine for voice, so didn't see the need to record it.)

I would assume that FTTC will resolve that as the problem is much diminished on the shorter cable run between cabinet and home, as opposed to exchange to home.

Pat
Triumph were still using shite cable in their wiring looms as little as 10 years ago (nigh on a 1v drop in 6 inches of cable between the reg/rec and battery), and it wouldn't surprise me if other manufacturers are doing the same today in order to save a few pence.