Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 04 October 2014, 15:20:09
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Probably more steering wheel shake/judder under light braking than hard braking.
Front pads and discs changed 4 years and 30,000 miles ago......unable to tell if pattern or genuine VX parts were used.
Any idea, chaps? :y
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Invoice for £176.47 in April 2010.....which looks like one hour of labour was required at £40 P/H plus VAT
Of course, the wobble/judder may have SFA to do with the discs and pads. :)
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Maybe drop links away ??
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Maybe drop links away ??
I hear much about these drop links .
What are they and where are they located?
Expensive?
Easy fix?
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Maybe drop links away ??
Won`t cause OP`s problems. Sounds like warped discs
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Maybe drop links away ??
Won`t cause OP`s problems. Sounds like warped discs
I can also feel a judder/groan/grind through the brake pedal that is not the ABS kicking in.
How long do front discs and pads generally last?
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Pads 5-25k depending on use...
Discs 10-50k depending on pad abuse :y
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methinks our good doctor is in need of some new discs and pads and also some sensors by the sound of his description ! beware of some pattern discs as you may end up with warped discs and more judder.
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Doctor Opti, I wonder if you are in the habit of holding the car on the foot-brake for short pauses after normal road braking? You describe the classic symptoms of warped discs due to such action. With braking, obviously the discs become hot and cool when the brakes are released, but if you hold the car on the foot-brake the disc area between the brake pads does not get a chance to cool, whereas the rest of the disc does - hence differential cooling takes place and the disc warps.
Ron.
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Look under the car at the inboard face of the frint brake discs. If there is a rusty band on the outer edge then replace the discs.
If not, front wishbone bushes are flapping about, although this usually gives a flapining or tank slapper( in bike parlance ) feel to the steering.
....as said, drop links are NOT responsible.
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I have a works van when I brake the wheels shake. Had strut mounts, wish bones, brake pads n discs turned out it was drop links. Would I not be wise to check before he spends money on discs n pads. Only a suggestion n all
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I have a works van when I brake the wheels shake. Had strut mounts, wish bones, brake pads n discs turned out it was drop links. Would I not be wise to check before he spends money on discs n pads. Only a suggestion n all
Omega drop links have ball joints on each end. The slightest amount of play and they knock. Any knock is evident way before any effect on handling and body roll is evident.
It would indeed be wise though. But given the geometric set up and suspension design on omegas, it's not possible for the wheels to flap or the brakes to vibrate with drop link play. ...roll bar bush play might. But NOT the drop links themselves. Luckily, roll bar bushes on omega are a very rare failure.
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Maybe drop links away ??
I hear much about these drop links .
What are they and where are they located?
Expensive?
Easy fix?
Take a front wheel off & you can't help but see one
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTg5WDQyOQ==/$(KGrHqYOKnUE64r71gUiBO)rTbj+,g~~60_12.JPG)
click here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xomega+drop+link&_nkw=omega+drop+link&_sacat=0)
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Fronts discs came up as an 'advisory' at the MOT in June.
001 Front brake discs worn,pitted or scored. But not seriously weakened.
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Maybe drop links away ??
I hear much about these drop links .
What are they and where are they located?
Expensive?
Easy fix?
Take a front wheel off & you can't help but see one
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTg5WDQyOQ==/$(KGrHqYOKnUE64r71gUiBO)rTbj+,g~~60_12.JPG)
click here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xomega+drop+link&_nkw=omega+drop+link&_sacat=0)
Thanks, Andy.
They look relatively easy to replace if required.
No knocking noises at present. :y
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Pads 5-25k depending on use...
Discs 10-50k depending on pad abuse :y
So 30,000 miles for both means a change may be needed. :y
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I should add that the 'brake pad warning light' is not illuminated.
Some neanderthal knuckledragger probably ripped the sensor apart when fitting new discs and pads. :-\
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Doctor Opti, I wonder if you are in the habit of holding the car on the foot-brake for short pauses after normal road braking? You describe the classic symptoms of warped discs due to such action. With braking, obviously the discs become hot and cool when the brakes are released, but if you hold the car on the foot-brake the disc area between the brake pads does not get a chance to cool, whereas the rest of the disc does - hence differential cooling takes place and the disc warps.
Ron.
Guilty as charged, Ron. ;)
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I should add that the 'brake pad warning light' is not illuminated.
Some neanderthal knuckledragger probably ripped the sensor apart when fitting the new discs and pads. :-\
Ooooohohooo. There probably is not a member here that hasn't busted a warning sensor when changing pads. So you just insulted half the forum there Dr ;D
May I suggest, a visual examination before any "diagnosis" is given, "Dr"! ;D
Bloody Gp's they're all the same :D
Ps.... The warning light will not tell you if the discs are rusted on the inner face. Which is much more likely if those discs are on their second set of pads.
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Doctor Opti, I wonder if you are in the habit of holding the car on the foot-brake for short pauses after normal road braking? You describe the classic symptoms of warped discs due to such action. With braking, obviously the discs become hot and cool when the brakes are released, but if you hold the car on the foot-brake the disc area between the brake pads does not get a chance to cool, whereas the rest of the disc does - hence differential cooling takes place and the disc warps.
Ron.
Guilty as charged, Ron. ;)
I think that goes for most of the rest of us too ........ especially with a proper gearbox, otherwise it'll creep forward. ;) ;)
Bigron actually has that arse about face ..... the bit where the pads are held against the disc is the bit that cools faster than the rest of the disc because that is the heat sink, the rest of the disc is sitting in fresh air.
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The inside face of the passsenger side front disc. Good...bad.....or indifferent?
(http://i60.tinypic.com/21c71xl.jpg)
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Frucked :y
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Fubar!
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N.F.G. !! suggest work to the calipers is required in order to rectify the uneven wear.
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N.F.G. !! suggest work to the calipers is required in order to rectify the uneven wear.
It's not a caliper issue, or non that can be rectified simply by an owner as its part of the original design....but it is an age issue.
The only thing an owner can do is to buy pinged discs, or paint them with heat proof paint diy.
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basing my assumption on the pictures shown led me to believe that the calliper was corroded and not allowing the pads to move freely and causing the uneven wear pattern in the photo's, but I did think that inferring the good doctor was past his prime was rather unfortunate :http://images.omegaowners.com/forum/smf2000/Smileys/oofstd/rolleyes.gif:)
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N.F.G. !! suggest work to the calipers is required in order to rectify the uneven wear.
It's not a caliper issue, or non that can be rectified simply by an owner as its part of the original design....but it is an age issue.
The only thing an owner can do is to buy painted discs, or paint them with heat proof paint diy.
Edited typo. "Painted"
If the pads are examined there will be a corresponding wear mark on the pads as well. It seems that the rust wears the pads away, and simulationsly brakes the rust away as eventually the rust eats in from the outer edge and falls off on contract with the disk.
The result is a gap between the disk and pad friction material. There is no reason why this process should happen evenly around the disc so, inevitably, a judder takes place which usually the first the driver knows of it, unless he checks regularly.
The rust starts very early on in the discs life, if unpainted, and the splash guard is short of the disc at the bottom. This in conjunction with air flow and water under the car means the rust starts on the inboard face and works in from the outer edge, t give what's evident in the pic.
Paint on the discs doesn't actually last very long. Not much more than a year, but it holds the rust at bay long enough to wear the discs out BEFORE the rust gets to this stage. Which in this example, isn't too bad given the miles covered.
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basing my assumption on the pictures shown led me to believe that the calliper was corroded and not allowing the pads to move freely and causing the uneven wear pattern in the photo's, but I did think that inferring the good doctor was past his prime was rather unfortunate :http://images.omegaowners.com/forum/smf2000/Smileys/oofstd/rolleyes.gif:)
That's two in one thread. We don't do assumptions here, if at all possible. And if we do we say we are assuming. ;)
...and (lowers voice to a whisper) hes not actually a Dr, but don't tell him I told you so ;)
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I suppose I'll have to go without food and water for a month and buy a matching set of discs and pads. :-\
Genuine GM parts are silly money though so I may be forced to go the Mintex/Ebay route.......about £55.
I may not be the best mechanic in the world but changing the disc and pads on an Omega should be reasonably simple......shouldn't it?.... :o :o :o :-X
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I suppose I'll have to go without food and water for a month and buy a matching set of discs and pads. :-\
Genuine GM parts are silly money though so I may be forced to go the Mintex/Ebay route.......about £55.
I may not be the best mechanic in the world but changing the disc and pads on an Omega should be reasonably simple......shouldn't it?.... :o :o :o :-X
A set of discs & pads is/was around £100 :y
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Plus paint if using gm.
Although at that rate of use, probably not worth the bother tbh...?
If you fancy measuring the wear Opti, just out of interest....? :)
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I suppose I'll have to go without food and water for a month and buy a matching set of discs and pads. :-\
Genuine GM parts are silly money though so I may be forced to go the Mintex/Ebay route.......about £55.
I may not be the best mechanic in the world but changing the disc and pads on an Omega should be reasonably simple......shouldn't it?.... :o :o :o :-X
A set of discs & pads is/was around £100 :y
Qwik Fit quoted £170. I assume they use pattern parts.
The kid I spoke to said "I didn't know that Vauxhall made a car called the Omega".
Oh dear.... :-\ ;D ;D
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I suppose I'll have to go without food and water for a month and buy a matching set of discs and pads. :-\
Genuine GM parts are silly money though so I may be forced to go the Mintex/Ebay route.......about £55.
I may not be the best mechanic in the world but changing the disc and pads on an Omega should be reasonably simple......shouldn't it?.... :o :o :o :-X
A set of discs & pads is/was around £100 :y
Without TC, my local Vx dealer wants close to £150.
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I suppose I'll have to go without food and water for a month and buy a matching set of discs and pads. :-\
Genuine GM parts are silly money though so I may be forced to go the Mintex/Ebay route.......about £55.
I may not be the best mechanic in the world but changing the disc and pads on an Omega should be reasonably simple......shouldn't it?.... :o :o :o :-X
A set of discs & pads is/was around £100 :y
Without TC, my local Vx dealer wants close to £150.
Even at that, it'd be preferable to letting KwikFit loose on your brakes. Dead easy to do yourself. :y :y
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Qwik Fit quoted £170. I assume they use pattern parts.
Quite likely ::)
The kid I spoke to said "I didn't know that Vauxhall made a car called the Omega".
Oh dear.... :-\ ;D ;D
he was probably just moving into junior school when the Omega was discontinued ;D ;D
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I suppose I'll have to go without food and water for a month and buy a matching set of discs and pads. :-\
Genuine GM parts are silly money though so I may be forced to go the Mintex/Ebay route.......about £55.
I may not be the best mechanic in the world but changing the disc and pads on an Omega should be reasonably simple......shouldn't it?.... :o :o :o :-X
A set of discs & pads is/was around £100 :y
Without TC, my local Vx dealer wants close to £150.
Even at that, it'd be preferable to letting KwikFit loose on your brakes. Dead easy to do yourself. :y :y
Yep. I changed the front discs and pads on the Corsa. Piece of piss really. Not much different, I assume.
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Qwik Fit quoted £170. I assume they use pattern parts.
Quite likely ::)
The kid I spoke to said "I didn't know that Vauxhall made a car called the Omega".
Oh dear.... :-\ ;D ;D
he was probably just moving into junior school when the Omega was discontinued ;D ;D
I had to tell him three times that it was NOT an Astra. :-\ ;D ;D
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Not much different, I assume.
Just bigger & thicker :y ............. Oooer! ::)
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How often a vehicle is used plays a big part.
my discs are in the same state.
Salt grit trucks sitting stationary months on end have the same problem with brake discs, mileage is low as you would imagine.
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I had to tell him three times that it was NOT an Astra. :-\ ;D ;D
If he could only see the front .......... that's why ::) ::) ;D ;D
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I had to tell him three times that it was NOT an Astra. :-\ ;D ;D
If he could only see the front .......... that's why ::) ::) ;D ;D
;D ;D
Just like looking in the Rear View Mirror on the Motorway, seeing these self-abuser lights in the distance and not knowing if it's a 1,3,4,5,6 series BMW hurtling along at break-neck speed..... or a A1,A3,A4,A5,A6 ::)
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You might be barking up the wrong tree. I believe your problem is caused by the control arm bushes. Worn or damaged front suspension bushings will cause a violent shaking when braking. It feels like warped brake rotors but it's really caused by the front bushings' loss of alignment control. Instead of keeping the front wheels pointing in the right direction while braking the bushings flex excessively under braking, letting the tires flop around.
I had the same exact problem a few years ago and replacing them with polyurethane bushings cured it. I went with poly for their durability, longevity, and of course the improved handling. I haven't noticed the supposed harshness they impart. Whether you choose to go with poly or rubber, new bushings will fix the shaking.
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Quite possible. The difference between the two is usually the op's ability to describe the symptoms accurately....vibration on the brakes, is brakes related.
Flapping or wobble on the brakes is wishbone bush related. But is also sometimes set off by bumps, and the steering wheel wobble starts again.
So vibration on the brakes is brakes. Random wobble on the brakes and over bumps is bushes.
A good way to test bushes is to jab the brakes hard and as briefly as possible. If the steering wheel wobbles as the road wheel assembly flaps about, buggered bushes, usually front.
Failed rearward bushes give a folding feeling in tight corners and affect the sterring odly.
It's entirely possible the good Dr has failed bushes as well. But the discs are buggere so change those and see imo.
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You may be right. My diagnostic abilities wane after the first thousand miles of Atlantic. The same front/horizontal bushing we use is also used on the BMW M5. I found this years ago when investigating my shudder:
Korman Autoworks:
Regarding the 1988 to 1995 BMW M5:
The E34 chassis and front end shimmy go hand in hand, especially with the addition of larger wheel and tire packages. This shimmy mimics warped rotors, and is most noticeable under light braking from highway speeds. Our hard rubber bushings address this problem as well as improving steering feel and "turn in".
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The dreaded Ebay has Mintex branded Discs and pads for £57 delivered.
What's the worst that can happen?..... ;D ;D
As Mr Gixer suggests,I shall change these first (they are clearly fooked anyway) and hope that no additional problem rear their ugly head.
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When i bought my Omega in May this year it had the same fault....there were loads of receipts for bits changed and work done....front discs and pads were changed one year ago but i believed that they were the cause of the wobble/ shake on braking so bought new discs and pads and fault now gone.Must have been cheap and nasty parts fitted in the first place.. :y
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When i bought my Omega in May this year it had the same fault....there were loads of receipts for bits changed and work done....front discs and pads were changed one year ago but i believed that they were the cause of the wobble/ shake on braking so bought new discs and pads and fault now gone.Must have been cheap and nasty parts fitted in the first place.. :y
Not always down to cheap(er) parts, but how the car has been driven. I have an abundance of short dual carriageway roads near me which lend themselves to many high-speed braking manoeuvres in quick succession. Much harder on the braking system than a 1,000 mile Motorway cruise, or even a 100mile A-Road blast.
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The dreaded Ebay has Mintex branded Discs and pads for £57 delivered.
What's the worst that can happen?..... ;D ;D
As Mr Gixer suggests,I shall change these first (they are clearly fooked anyway) and hope that no additional problem rear their ugly head.
You'll need pads as well. They will be oddly worn and will start the new discs off with an uneven wear pattern that will shorten the life of the disc.
Apologies of thats obvious.
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The dreaded Ebay has Mintex branded Discs and pads for £57 delivered.
What's the worst that can happen?..... ;D ;D
As Mr Gixer suggests,I shall change these first (they are clearly fooked anyway) and hope that no additional problem rear their ugly head.
You'll need pads as well. They will be oddly worn and will start the new discs off with an uneven wear pattern that will shorten the life of the disc.
Apologies of thats obvious.
£57 includes discs, pads, and a sachet of copper grease type gunk. :y
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, and a sachet of copper grease type gunk. :y
Christ .......... don't tell Chris you used the Copper slip! Just tell him you threw it away. ;) ;) ;) ;)
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Of course you could just grab the front wheel and see if there's any play for and aft.
...or, get someone to brake while you stand by the side of the car and watch the front wheel. If it moves for and aft by more than 10mm each way, buggered bushes.
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i recently paid 150 for genuine front discs and pads from vx, i think the advice on here is genuine for the front and patern for rear and all fitted by the good man al :y
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i recently paid 150 for genuine front discs and pads from vx, i think the advice on here is genuine for the front and patern for rear and all fitted by the good man al :y
It is indeed the advice. :y
However, when piss poor like myself something has to give. :)
I hate the fooking taxman. :-\