Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 02 July 2017, 12:06:49
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Something else to have an argument about. ;D
A lot of talk over the weekend from various people (mostly Tories) that it should now be lifted. So what do we think ?
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Yes, it should be lifted. Too many workers not being paid their worth, the cap has been in place for far too long..
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But on the other hand, the country is almost £2 trillion in debt. :-\
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But on the other hand, the country is almost £2 trillion in debt. :-\
Besides, private sector grass roots pay has actually gone down having been effectively frozen since 2004/5... What's good for the goose and all that :-X
Also, I do wonder if things like a forced minimum wage and chappy compulsory pension schemes are both negative assertions as they give companies/unions a target to dumb down to :-\
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Everyone wants great and well funded public services, but nobody wants to pay for it. ::) Given that despite the cuts, we still have an annual deficit of about £50 billion a year and spend about £46 billion a year on interest payments on our existing national debt, the only way to properly fund public services is to raise taxes. :o
Corbyn and Mcdonnell's plan to raise the necessary money by only taxing the wealthy and big business won't work as they have the resources to change their behaviour to avoid swinging tax increases and they'll simply leave the UK or will employ clever accountants to find the loopholes. So this means that tax has to go up for everyone and that probably means an income tax base rate of 25%. ::)
Nobody will like it, but that's what has to happen IMO. :(
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But on the other hand, the country is almost £2 trillion in debt. :-\
Besides, private sector grass roots pay has actually gone down having been effectively frozen since 2004/5... What's good for the goose and all that :-X
Also, I do wonder if things like a forced minimum wage and chappy compulsory pension schemes are both negative assertions as they give companies/unions a target to dumb down to :-\
So..if the public sector has had a pay rises capped at 1% for five years, and the private sector has gone down, where does this wage growth of 2.7% come from. You do talk some shite at times.
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That's why my basic pay is £18.7K where as my colleagues who started pre 2005 are on £26+ :-X
Pre miminum wage double time over time, sick pay and decent pension schemes were normal... Now it's minimum wage, flat rate and opps off ::)
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The STRB are due to report soon, as they do every year. The government would have great difficulty in not following their recommendations this year. However, the STRB seem to think that it's in their remit to take the prevailing economic conditions into account...it's not.
If there is not a decent rise this autumn, there will be a winter of discontent. Corbyn is half hoping that the squeeze will continue, because he knows that would be the end of this government.....and he can get his magic tree out of storage.
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As I'm an NHS worker it certainly bloody should be lifted !!!
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As I'm an NHS worker it certainly bloody should be lifted !!!
Isn't perspective great :D
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To give you a very rough idea as to where me and the wife are now:
Let's say she was on £60000 in 2010, it's as good a figure as any. We were entitled, as everyone was, to child benefit. That was taken away because anyone earning £60000 lost the lot. (Two people earning £45000 each kept it). So that's minus £80 a month.
She was paying 6.25% of her gross pay in pension contributions (£311 a month), and could retire at 60 on a full pension. She now pays 11.8% of her gross pay in pension contributions (£590 a month) so minus £279 a month. She has to pay this for an extra 7 years and will get slightly less at the end in relation to the salary she ends up on as this is a career average pension.
She used to be contracted out of NI payments, which meant she payed a slightly reduced rate. That ended and, I think, cost about £15 a month.
So that's £354 less each month (It's actually more, cause her salary is higher than that).
Offset this with 1% each year pay rise and it doesn't take a genius to work out that we are worse off than 7 years ago. And she has to work another 7 years.
As for it being a golden pension.....well...it might have been.....once.
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All of this is partly the reason why I'm going to grab my state pension with eager hands as soon as I can. And my winter fuel payment, and even my fickin bus pass. :)
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In my opinion, there are many good reasons to keep the pay cap, and tuition fees etc. etc.
But STEMO has kind of hit the nail on the head. If the Tories don't change these things, then many public sector workers and students will put Corbyn in number 10, McDonnell in number11 and Diane Abbot in the home office, somewhere between the end of this year and 5 years time.
Then the economy (and the whole of the country) will be completely facked in a way that only people who are 55 or older will be able to remember.
It will have to involve some kind of tax increases and loosening of the purse strings. I would like to think they will have the balls to scrap HS2 and slash the foreign aid budget, but I wont hold my breath,
Someone will just have to explain to future generations that although our generations left them with unimaginable levels of debt, if we hadn't, there wouldn't be a country left for them at all.
We live in strange and scary times. :(
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Sadly in this country we seem to have a different approach to low pay than we do to high pay.
Government ministers speak of paying huge amounts of money in order to 'attract' the very best (think banking, a career where reward for failure is common) I'm sure Mr Bitz will agree with me on this point. ::) ::)
Strangely the same philosophy does not apply to the low paid. Many rogue employers pay the minimum wage under protest and if they could would pay far less.
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You've all missed the real reason for a Tory government removing a public sector pay cap: it will mean that all the obviously underpaid consultants will be able to
afford their own private island in the caribbean put their prices up.
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Let's say she was on £60000 in 2010, it's as good a figure as any. We were entitled, as everyone was, to child benefit. That was taken away because anyone earning £60000 lost the lot. (Two people earning £45000 each kept it). So that's minus £80 a month.
The sensible thing to do would be make an £8K (net) contribution to a private pension plan. The Govt then top this up to £10K, and refund £2K of tax to her, so the net cost to her is £6K for a £10K pension pot. This also reduces her taxable gross pay by £10K to £50K, so you are then entitled to child benefit. £80 p/m = £960 p/a, so the true cost of that £10K pension pot becomes a tad over £5K.
She can also take this private pension at 55, so she won't have to work that extra 7 years if she doesn't want to.
She used to be contracted out of NI payments, which meant she payed a slightly reduced rate. That ended and, I think, cost about £15 a month.
Yes, but this also means that her state pension can be the maximum £149 p/w instead of the old SP which was less than £120 p/w for someone with no S2P/SERPS entitlement. So she's paying £15 p/m extra for an eventual £30 p/m additional SP.
As for it being a golden pension.....well...it might have been.....once.
No - it was once a golden pension encrusted with diamonds and other precious stones. Now it's 'only' a golden pension which everyone has to pay extra taxes to pay for.
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Reward for failure in banking isn't common. It applied to those "masters of the universe" right at the very top of the food chain, such as Gordon Browns friend Fred Goodwin, who thought they had a divine right to earn millions regardless of what happened in the real world. Move down the chain a little and you find clever, very hard working people, who used to earn good money, but don't earn huge wages these days, and are leaving the industry in their droves.
There is a brain drain in banking at the moment and it will cause us problems a few years down the line.
I know a bloke who worked under extreme duress for Crispin "odius" Odey for a long time. Odey threatened to fire him every week, just because he could. Then about 6 months ago he actually fired him, despite the fact the guy had made him millions.
He was distraught at first, but now wants to do anything but go back to banking.
A couple of months ago my daughter (despite doing her job very well) didn't get on at all with her new boss. As she stepped off the tube one night after work she had a snapchat message "do you want to jump or be pushed ?" That was probably the end of her career in banking.
Her previous boss, who is brilliant at his job, walked out last week and has vowed never to return to the industry, come hell or high water.
Its a job no-one wants to do anymore, apart from those mortaged to the hilt and are resigned to a life of misery to attempt to keep up their lifestyle.
The financial director of the company I work was down in the city last week and said he had never seen it so quiet and lacking in life.
Its like someone has sucked all the enthusiasm out of the place.
It may amuse the ignorant, who think "serves them all right", but when our pension funds are being invested by people who don't know how to make money in the future, we will all be crying about being skint in old age.
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Let's say she was on £60000 in 2010, it's as good a figure as any. We were entitled, as everyone was, to child benefit. That was taken away because anyone earning £60000 lost the lot. (Two people earning £45000 each kept it). So that's minus £80 a month.
The sensible thing to do would be make an £8K (net) contribution to a private pension plan. The Govt then top this up to £10K, and refund £2K of tax to her, so the net cost to her is £6K for a £10K pension pot. This also reduces her taxable gross pay by £10K to £50K, so you are then entitled to child benefit. £80 p/m = £960 p/a, so the true cost of that £10K pension pot becomes a tad over £5K.
She can also take this private pension at 55, so she won't have to work that extra 7 years if she doesn't want to.
She used to be contracted out of NI payments, which meant she payed a slightly reduced rate. That ended and, I think, cost about £15 a month.
Yes, but this also means that her state pension can be the maximum £149 p/w instead of the old SP which was less than £120 p/w for someone with no S2P/SERPS entitlement. So she's paying £15 p/m extra for an eventual £30 p/m additional SP.
As for it being a golden pension.....well...it might have been.....once.
No - it was once a golden pension encrusted with diamonds and other precious stones. Now it's 'only' a golden pension which everyone has to pay extra taxes to pay for.
I wish I'd have realised the bit about the pp contributions a few years ago :(
However, I only used £60K as an example, she'd have had to squirrel away a lot more than £8K to get herself down to £50K pa, and when there's only one wage coming in, it's not so easy to set money aside.
It just goes to show, though, it's very often worth paying for this kind of advice.
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It just goes to show, though, it's very often worth paying for this kind of advice.
Thanks. Where should I send my invoice ? :)
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It just goes to show, though, it's very often worth paying for this kind of advice.
Thanks. Where should I send my invoice ? :)
Send it to Lord Opti, he'll pay it from his loose wad change. ;D
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What some may not immediately recognise, is that although you may be on a Public Sector pay scheme with its associated pension, if you retire during an extended pay freeze, as I did from the RAF during the Callaghan Govt., you get a permanently reduced pension, so, for example in my case, someone of the same rank and service who retired a year or so later than me on a post freeze substantially increased pay level, has now had 40 years pension starting at considerably more, plus all the compounded increases since. This is known as the Pension's Trough, and although the Forces Pension Society tried to get redress, successive Governments, while shedding crocodile tears, have refused. I suspect that if it is ever fixed, it will be when 99% of us are dead, (about now then ;D), as they did with the War Widow's pensions. :y
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In my opinion, there are many good reasons to keep the pay cap, and tuition fees etc. etc.
But STEMO has kind of hit the nail on the head. If the Tories don't change these things, then many public sector workers and students will put Corbyn in number 10, McDonnell in number11 and Diane Abbot in the home office, somewhere between the end of this year and 5 years time.
Then the economy (and the whole of the country) will be completely facked in a way that only people who are 55 or older will be able to remember.
It will have to involve some kind of tax increases and loosening of the purse strings. I would like to think they will have the balls to scrap HS2 and slash the foreign aid budget, but I wont hold my breath,
Someone will just have to explain to future generations that although our generations left them with unimaginable levels of debt, if we hadn't, there wouldn't be a country left for them at all.
We live in strange and scary times. :(
The cap should stay. Public sector pay is still generally above their private sector equivalent. If you run your own business at the beginning of each month you have effectively no money, by the end of it you have to earn enough to pay your bills and then pay yourself. If it is a limited company and you have made a gross profit of say £5,000 (same as STEMO SWMBO £60,000pa). So for taking risks (Only 41% of startups are going after 5 years which means 59% have failed and often lost the people involved money, including houses etc. and may have ended up bankrupt), probably working longer hours as the average business person works 60 hours a week, I then have to pay out of this employer and employee NI plus tax. If somebody asked me about starting a business today, like in the 1970's, I'd tell them not to bother, as the risk v gain and what you are left with as your effective tax rates rapidly go above 50% and then you have another 20% sales tax on the majority of things you buy, so your spending power can rapidly end up at about 30-40% of what you have grafted to earn.
As an example the cheapest way to generally pay yourself is by dividends. At a 40% tax rate if you pay yourself £1000, you have to pay 19% CGT on this profit (you can only pay dividends out of profits) which reduces it to £810 and then 32.5% tax which brings it down to £546.75 making my tax rate about 45% and above 100k which is taxed at 37.5% I'm left with £506.25 at tax rate of about 50%. If I spend the money on 20% VAT rated items, the effective spending power of my original £1000 is £437.30 and £405.00 respectively and of course above £100k you also have your tax allowence withdrawn at a rate of £1 for every £2 you earn. The figures are all much worse if you pay yourself through PAYE.
In 1991 the Government spent about 33% of GPD it is now 43%, which is the highest since the 1970's early 80's and most tax rises now end up earning the Government less money as the are now the wrong side of the Laffer curve in most areas. Tony BLiar & Gordon McRuin has long term fubered this country. Ever rising spending and 2008 with an out of control deficit (tax deferred) was their grand exit. We have be fortunate where the UK is one of the least worst places to do business in the EU, so we have had some growth and reasonable unemployment, but don't count on either if Marxist Corbyn and Co get near the levers of power. Leaving the EU gives us the chance to get ahead again like in the 1980's, but I can't see any party or politician with the policies to take advantage of this.
STEMO if more and more people like me say, we just can't be bothered to generate the wealth like happened in the 1970's I would suggest instead of taking your dog for a walk you start growing some of Labour's money trees as no private sector wealth creation = no tax = no public sector. Tax money can ONLY come from private sector wealth creation, public sector pay taxes are only a discount on the total public sector pay bill.
It is easy to take freedom and democracy for granted, but once lost, very costly to get it back. I'm already working on my UK exit contingency escape plans for the 2022 election, as I remember only too well the 1970's and under Corbyn it will be much, much worse, more like Venezuela if the UK is lucky and more like Cuba if it is not. >:( >:( >:(
I've recently been reading about the UK constitution where many Western democracies are currently under attack by extreme left and right wing authoritarian political parties. In the UK it is frightening easy if you are so inclined to radically change it including turning the UK into a one party state, all you need is a Parliamentary majority. :o :o :o
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I stopped reading after 'the cap should stay'.
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I don't disagree with Rods financial points, but the political reality is that if it costs money we don't have and cant afford to keep the marxists out of power, then it will still be money well spent.
The left wing fascism which is now running rampant in this country needs killing off, not given an opportunity to seize power.
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Although number 10 and boring Phil haven't said they are even considering a change, the momentum (sorry) that is being gained by all the news reporting would make it feel like a U turn if they didn't. The power of the media.
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The cap needs to stay in place. Public sector workers should be grateful they get more than private sector workers have had over the past few years, and about 1% more than my company is giving anyone this year.
As we are in recession again (not yet technically, due to the delay on figures), there can't be any scope for any real payrises this year, or for the next couple, so we'll all have to suffer a real term reduction, with inflation above 2%, and only going to get worse with the Bank of England only having one option left to curb it going mental...
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Are you prepared to take the risk of that allowing Corbyn into number 10 ? It is a very real risk indeed.
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Are you prepared to take the risk of that allowing Corbyn into number 10 ? It is a very real risk indeed.
A week is a long time in politics. They should keep the cap until a year before the next election and then have a giveaway budget. This formula has been used many times and when it doesn't work then almost anything they do will make very little difference. :-[
I think we maybe an election away from what Hayek warned us about that people get so complacent about freedom and democracy that it may well take an authoritative regime to make people realise what they have lost. If Corbyn gets in I'm will be gone from the UK within days as I'm under no illusions for what is in store. The fact that he is trying to bring down a democratically elected Government through street violence should alarm everbody and show where this is heading if he ever gets near the keys to No 10. >:( >:( >:(
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We may already be less than a year from the next election. ;)
I notice that Momentum ( who now effectively are the Labour party) removed a clause from their constitution earlier this year which banned members from taking part in violence. ::)
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Not living in the UK i havent a handle on the difficulty inflation is or maybe causing so what is up in price ?
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But on the other hand, the country is almost £2 trillion in debt. :-\
yet we're the fifth wealthiest country in the world 8).
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As an example the cheapest way to generally pay yourself is by dividends. At a 40% tax rate if you pay yourself £1000, you have to pay 19% CGT on this profit (you can only pay dividends out of profits) which reduces it to £810 and then 32.5% tax which brings it down to £546.75 making my tax rate about 45% and above 100k which is taxed at 37.5% I'm left with £506.25 at tax rate of about 50%. If I spend the money on 20% VAT rated items, the effective spending power of my original £1000 is £437.30 and £405.00 respectively and of course above £100k you also have your tax allowence withdrawn at a rate of £1 for every £2 you earn. The figures are all much worse if you pay yourself through PAYE.
I don't argue with the numbers, but I think the employee vs company director analysis misses some key points. For reference, I am speaking from the position of experience in that SWMBO runs a small business as a Ltd. Company (about £55-60k profit before tax). She has the ability to work when and where she wants and claims costs against Corporation tax which would not be claimable as an employee. Not to mention that if she was doing the same level of activity as an employee, she'd be earning £30-35k and the remainder would be going to a "wealth creator".
Leaving the EU gives us the chance to get ahead again like in the 1980's, but I can't see any party or politician with the policies to take advantage of this.
I hope this is true, but I think we will have a lot of ground to make up. The falling pound and the knock to our credit rating has already increased the cost of borrowing more, as well as servicing our existing mound of sovereign debt.
STEMO if more and more people like me say, we just can't be bothered to generate the wealth like happened in the 1970's I would suggest instead of taking your dog for a walk you start growing some of Labour's money trees as no private sector wealth creation = no tax = no public sector. Tax money can ONLY come from private sector wealth creation, public sector pay taxes are only a discount on the total public sector pay bill.
I just can't see this happening with whats been put on the table so far, Labour's proposed hikes to Corporation tax would still leave us with one of lowest rates in Europe, and certainly not an outlyer (sp?). For big businesses domiciled in the UK, the costs of de-listing in the UK and moving staff, taxable entities etc etc overseas would be astronomical.
I work for a FTSE 250 plc and our FP&A team ran a number of scenarios on this very thing in the run-up to the general election. The conclusion was that it is a total non-starter with a corporation tax rate that was less than 5-8% greater than the chosen destination country, and 10-12% would be more likely to trigger the change. This is bearing in mind that our company has offices, staff and legal entities in (I think) every European company, the US, japan, australia, russia, and various south american locations, so we would be about as "plug and play" as its possible to be. Frankly, comparing a 26% rate to the 40-45% tax rates of the 1970s (which is what a lot of the UK press seem to be doing) is just scaremongering.
Where I do see a flight risk for businesses is where our new trading relationship with the EU makes the business model non-viable. How many such businesses there are will depend entirely on the deal we end up with. And no-one can know that yet.
I think the idea of "wealth creator" is held up as a holy grail in the UK as something to be revered, as though the employees are just doe-eyed simpletons along for the ride. This in many cases is as far from the truth as its possible to be. Take for an example a family friend who owns about 10 estate agencies in the south east, certainly a millionaire, this guy is the stereotypical "wealth creator" business owner who apparently we need to shield from the grisly spectre of tax hikes or drains on his considerable wealth. But what wealth does he actually create? If the guy went under a bus tomorrow, the business would still sell just as many houses and turn just as big a profit. The doe-eyed simpleton agents and their dribbling store managers are the ones who create the wealth. He just creams off whatever his accountant deems fit.
The problem is even worse when you consider listed businesses; there, the owners and, by extension "wealth creators" are mostly big institutional investors, who have absolutely sod all to do with running the company.
The spectre of private sector brain drain also ignores the actual brain drain that is occurring in the public sector. Doctors, nurses, teachers are all leaving these shores for better prospects overseas and are welcomed with open arms, bigger pay packets and better conditions than they receive in the UK. They are the real geographically mobile flight risk. For me, it isn't about comparing public vs private sector, its about paying enough to retain the best people to teach our children and fix us when we fall down. We can always find the money when we want it (see Ms Weak n Wobbly's bung to the fundamentalist Christian nutters, nukes, or a shiny new aircraft carrier), but at the moment we've decided that we don't want it for our public sector workers.
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Not living in the UK i havent a handle on the difficulty inflation is or maybe causing so what is up in price ?
It's all a bit hyped up by the media to be honest. Sure some things have gone up, but not massively and as ever if you shop around. ;)
Here's an example from my regular grocery shop.
Pot of Hummus from Tesco. June 2016 £1.00, June 2017 £1.10. But down the road at Lidl the same size pot of Hummus is 55p! It's nicer as well! :y
Not so long ago inflation was nearly double what it is now, and just over a year ago the big worry was deflation.... ::)
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In reply to Jimmy944:
I am very mobile as all I need is an Internet connection to work anywhere on the globe. I have a house in France I just need to buy/rent one in another country and I could easily set things up so I pay NO tax, (to be domiciled in UK 3months+ France 6months+, a.n.other 6months+, which is why top pop stars all have 3 houses in different countries!) I won't as I disagree with paying no tax as there has to be a 'reasonable collective pool of money' for society to work. What would also be very easy for me to do is do all my sales through a Caribbean tax haven so my CT is 0% and then become domicile in Ukraine where their flat income tax rate is 19.5% and I may well consider this as I need to take on more programmers as they are technically good and comparatively cheap there.
Tax like all costs is competitive, what you get from the quality of where you reside to the tax costs and the countries cost base and quality of laws and administration is a deciding equation. The UK has been losing competitiveness since 1991 and I suspect this will continue until we have a 1970's crisis and need to call on the IMF or worse like the PIIGS after 2008. :( :( :(
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Not living in the UK i havent a handle on the difficulty inflation is or maybe causing so what is up in price ?
It's all a bit hyped up by the media to be honest. Sure some things have gone up, but not massively and as ever if you shop around. ;)
Here's an example from my regular grocery shop.
Pot of Hummus from Tesco. June 2016 £1.00, June 2017 £1.10. But down the road at Lidl the same size pot of Hummus is 55p! It's nicer as well! :y
Not so long ago inflation was nearly double what it is now, and just over a year ago the big worry was deflation.... ::)
I have no idea what has gone up, but do hear a weekly moan from 'er indoors about how much she has spent at Tescos (a store she detests with a passion, but the only other choice in these parts is Waitrose thats quite small and a pain to get in/out of the carpark). It seems meat in particular has gone up, judging by the lower frequency I get steak and chips (though I do insist she gets steak from Waitrose, as the Tesco stuff is shite)
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Oh, and energy, particularly tizzy, seems to have rocketed a bit. Need to check if we're using more, can't see why/how, but the bills have certainly increased :(
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Oh, and energy, particularly tizzy, seems to have rocketed a bit. Need to check if we're using more, can't see why/how, but the bills have certainly increased :(
I went with ENGIE back in March. They were not the cheapest, but I got a fix till June 2019. Now the government is talking about capping prices, where's the fun in that, for me? :(
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Oh, and energy, particularly tizzy, seems to have rocketed a bit. Need to check if we're using more, can't see why/how, but the bills have certainly increased :(
I went with ENGIE back in March. They were not the cheapest, but I got a fix till June 2019. Now the government is talking about capping prices, where's the fun in that, for me? :(
I thought that was only for the lame and lazy?
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Hes at least one of those. ;D
I went with Engie for the same reason. By the time the Govt actually do anything the fix will run out anyway. ;)
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But on the other hand, the country is almost £2 trillion in debt. :-\
yet we're the fifth wealthiest country in the world 8).
Having the worlds 5th largest economy isn't the same thing as being the fifth wealthiest country in the world.
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Something else to have an argument about. ;D
A lot of talk over the weekend from various people (mostly Tories) that it should now be lifted. So what do we think ?
I work in the public sector and the simple fact is we can not afford to go beyond 1%. Pay rises are not funded from central government but have to come from efficiency savings, which would mean less jobs and a poorer service. The time to hand out rises is when we have actually balanced the budget and started paying back our debt so that they can be funded.
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Something else to have an argument about. ;D
A lot of talk over the weekend from various people (mostly Tories) that it should now be lifted. So what do we think ?
I work in the public sector and the simple fact is we can not afford to go beyond 1%. Pay rises are not funded from central government but have to come from efficiency savings, which would mean less jobs and a poorer service. The time to hand out rises is when we have actually balanced the budget and started paying back our debt so that they can be funded.
Amen to that :y
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Yes definitely lift the cap & pay the public services a decent salary then I can upgrade to a V12.😀😀😀
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Well I have had a think about the various comments and the media reporting and have the following observations.
Steve6367 is spot on about pay rises coming out of efficiency improvements. I worked for a company in the Uk for quite a few years. My mantra was do 10% more with 10% less. Worked quite well although my manager threw me a few curved balls from time to time.
So I am thinking the cap should stay but May ought to throw into the treasury some savings/money from elsewhere to show that the pain is being spread. maybe increase inheritence tax a lot?
Boris/Gove. They are coming out in favour of removing the cap. I think this is backside protection regarding Brexit. i.e. the apparent drain of NHS staff and concerns over not being able to fill posts and so on. Just illustrates the need to get the state of EU nationals/expats abroad negotiated PDQ.
On the subject of the NHS, I have said times before from my fairly recent direct experiences with elderly family members that the NHS needs reorganising. Nurses don't seem to nurse anymore but are administrators. Not that many years ago a matron and her nurses would be mortified if patients got a bed sore. they would regularly move them about to avoid them. Now they have a chart above the nurses seating area showing how many bed sores etc. Hospitals seem to me to be places where you are hanging about as a patient getting better or worse. Occasionally a doctor comes along and changes medication or does an operation. maybe the rest could be done my a robot administering drugs and auxilliaries doing bedpans etc. I will probably get flamed for over simplification of the case but there is room for huge improvements and savings.
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Completely agree re the NHS. Its broken and the problems aren't just about money. Not by a long way. The Blair Govt. doubled the NHS budget and made it a lot worse.
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On the subject of the NHS, I have said times before from my fairly recent direct experiences with elderly family members that the NHS needs reorganising. Nurses don't seem to nurse anymore but are administrators. Not that many years ago a matron and her nurses would be mortified if patients got a bed sore. they would regularly move them about to avoid them. Now they have a chart above the nurses seating area showing how many bed sores etc. Hospitals seem to me to be places where you are hanging about as a patient getting better or worse. Occasionally a doctor comes along and changes medication or does an operation. maybe the rest could be done my a robot administering drugs and auxilliaries doing bedpans etc. I will probably get flamed for over simplification of the case but there is room for huge improvements and savings.
I agree. And, sadly, as I've said here so many times before, I don't think it can be fixed in its current form. I don't think what we have is transformable now.
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Liz Truss is going to give a statement to the house, re: public sector pay, after PMQ's.
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Liz Truss is going to give a statement to the house, re: public sector pay, after PMQ's.
That should be worth waiting for after her last one about HMPS , the woman is a complete arsehole.
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Liz Truss is going to give a statement to the house, re: public sector pay, after PMQ's.
Well...there yer go...no change in government policy. We can all shut up now :)
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On the subject of the NHS, I have said times before from my fairly recent direct experiences with elderly family members that the NHS needs reorganising. Nurses don't seem to nurse anymore but are administrators. Not that many years ago a matron and her nurses would be mortified if patients got a bed sore. they would regularly move them about to avoid them. Now they have a chart above the nurses seating area showing how many bed sores etc. Hospitals seem to me to be places where you are hanging about as a patient getting better or worse. Occasionally a doctor comes along and changes medication or does an operation. maybe the rest could be done my a robot administering drugs and auxilliaries doing bedpans etc. I will probably get flamed for over simplification of the case but there is room for huge improvements and savings.
I agree. And, sadly, as I've said here so many times before, I don't think it can be fixed in its current form. I don't think what we have is transformable now.
I completely agree. Getting from where we are to somewhere near to where we need to be, seems an impossibility though. Its a sacred cow, and all those involved in any way are angels sent from on high, apparently.
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Good article by Daniel Hannan on spending reality.
http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2017/07/daniel-hannan-living-within-our-means-isnt-austerity-its-reality-and-it-cant-be-evaded.html (http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2017/07/daniel-hannan-living-within-our-means-isnt-austerity-its-reality-and-it-cant-be-evaded.html)
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SWMBO & myself have both been in public services all our working lives at one time both in the NHS I was in the London Ambulance Service & my wife was in pathology, in the early 90s we had both had enough, she went into education & I joined HMPS , I took partial retirement in 2014 ( best thing i ever did ).Last week she came home in tears because budget cuts had affected the science department which she is head of to the extent that practical experiments which are vital in this subject will be drastically reduced .She has had shingles already this year and a suspected TIA 2 years ago in my mind brought on by her job , my answer to this was retire now, these services no longer care about their staff it is all about money lots of which is totally wasted on unnecessary admin staff & managers who are promoted to way above their capabilities. She is now finishing at the end of March & taking her lump sum & pension so we will be travelling a lot, I told her to go sick with stress but she will not , does not want to let her pupils down but she does seem so much happier now there is light at the end of the tunnel.What the future holds for public services I dread to think even more so for our chidren & grandchildren who will all be affected in the end.
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Liz Truss is going to give a statement to the house, re: public sector pay, after PMQ's.
Well...there yer go...no change in government policy. We can all shut up now :)
No change in government policy until Theresa is about to be knifed in the back by her own party like the mad old woman who divided the country in the eighties. :)
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Good article by Daniel Hannan on spending reality.
http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2017/07/daniel-hannan-living-within-our-means-isnt-austerity-its-reality-and-it-cant-be-evaded.html (http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2017/07/daniel-hannan-living-within-our-means-isnt-austerity-its-reality-and-it-cant-be-evaded.html)
Whenever I see this 'smarmy sod' I always think his talents would be better served selling used cars. :)
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Good article by Daniel Hannan on spending reality.
http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2017/07/daniel-hannan-living-within-our-means-isnt-austerity-its-reality-and-it-cant-be-evaded.html (http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2017/07/daniel-hannan-living-within-our-means-isnt-austerity-its-reality-and-it-cant-be-evaded.html)
Whenever I see this 'smarmy sod' I always think his talents would be better served selling used cars. :)
I didn't even bother reading it. It's always the toffee nosed bastards with plenty of money themselves that tell other people why they can't have any. Nothing wrong with him that a good hiding and six months in a NHS hospital wouldn't cure. :)
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I did read it, and it's just a re-hash of the magic money tree argument. IE it's necessary we cut because we can't afford everything people want.
Which is true, more always begats more. But, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have a more sensible discussion about what we do spend money on. Personally I would rather we spend it on making people's lives better than.... Picking two examples out the hat, nuclear weapons and the royal navy's latest pleasure cruiser.
But then I'm not the one making the decisions. That'll be Mr Murdoch. ::)
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I don't mind the magic money tree argument, I just don't like some of the people who use it. People who have always been privileged, and never had to use a public service, telling others how such a service should be run.
People like him spend their lives telling less fortunate people how to live their lives. I would like it if one of the unfortunates was to pick him up by his scrawny little neck, punch him in the face till his head dizzies and then relieve him of his sweeties. :)
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I don't mind the magic money tree argument, I just don't like some of the people who use it. People who have always been privileged, and never had to use a public service, telling others how such a service should be run.
People like him spend their lives telling less fortunate people how to live their lives. I would like it if one of the unfortunates was to pick him up by his scrawny little neck, punch him in the face till his head dizzies and then relieve him of his sweeties. :)
I like your style.😀
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I said it before and I'll say it again. If we want well funded public services we have to be prepared to pay for them. ::)
And that's the elephant in the room, because everyone thinks someone else should pay. ;)
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And that's the elephant in the room, because everyone thinks someone else should pay. ;)
STEMO probably thinks that the "rich southerners" should pay..
And sorry Tig, it doesn't get much more southern than darzet so.. tag, you're it! ;D
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And that's the elephant in the room, because everyone thinks someone else should pay. ;)
STEMO probably thinks that the "rich southerners" should pay..
And sorry Tig, it doesn't get much more southern than darzet so.. tag, you're it! ;D
As Homer Simpson once said... "Doh!". ;D
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And that's the elephant in the room, because everyone thinks someone else should pay. ;)
STEMO probably thinks that the "rich southerners" should pay..
And sorry Tig, it doesn't get much more southern than darzet so.. tag, you're it! ;D
As Homer Simpson once said... "Doh!". ;D
And I think that wealthy landowners in the East should pay. Over to you Lord Opti! :y
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And that's the elephant in the room, because everyone thinks someone else should pay. ;)
STEMO probably thinks that the "rich southerners" should pay..
And sorry Tig, it doesn't get much more southern than darzet so.. tag, you're it! ;D
As Homer Simpson once said... "Doh!". ;D
And I think that wealthy landowners in the East should pay. Over to you Lord Opti! :y
..
I'm thinking of changing my name to 'Opti the destitute'.... :'(
I agree with STMO. It's all the fault of southern bed-wetting shandy drinkers ......and yes that does include Sir Tig. :)
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Nothing wrong with a good pint of shandy! :y Maybe they'll learn how to make one north of Bristol one day. :-\ :P ;D
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Liz Truss is going to give a statement to the house, re: public sector pay, after PMQ's.
Well...there yer go...no change in government policy. We can all shut up now :)
No change in government policy until Theresa is about to be knifed in the back by her own party like the great patriotic woman who saved the country from socialist ruin in the eighties. :)
Your learning. :y :D
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I said it before and I'll say it again. If we want well funded public services we have to be prepared to pay for them. ::)
And that's the elephant in the room, because everyone thinks someone else should pay. ;)
We already pay for them, but the idiots who run them from the useless managers to the hateful unions waste much of the money and cover up the fact that they are collectively a bunch of retards, and constsantly say the only problem is a lack of funding.
New Labour more than doubled the NHS budget, and did similar to schools and the end result that they were a bloody sight worse than before.
It isn't about money, despite what the BBC keep telling us.
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See? As soon as you tell people that they have to pay more for stuff, they turn round and tell you there's no problem! ::) :D ;D
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The only way is to have people with proper business acumen at the head not a bunch of educated idiots who have probably never done a proper days work in their lives.
As with all public services these idiots don't recognise their best assets are their staff, who having had a really raw deal with staff cuts etc still make the system work.
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I hear Trump is a very successful businessman? :D
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The only way is to have people with proper business acumen at the head not a bunch of educated idiots who have probably never done a proper days work in their lives.
As with all public services these idiots don't recognise their best assets are their staff, who having had a really raw deal with staff cuts etc still make the system work.
This requirement is not limited to the public sector ::)
Welcome to the real world :-X
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The only way is to have people with proper business acumen......
These types will want paying properly, so taxes will have to go up! :P ;D
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The only way is to have people with proper business acumen......
These types will want paying properly, so taxes will have to go up! :P ;D
They are already far overpaid for what they achieve...
All you need are well trained, dedicated staff who are able to think on their feet. Management needs to understand that the 'shop floor' actually knows how to do their respective jobs efficiently, and only require common sense and initiative to effectively control resource allocation.
Unfortunately management tends to comprise of people unable to work on the 'shop floor'. Paying crap public sector management more will achieve no more than it would in the private sector... ie costs rise and efficiency plummets.
Why this is such a surprise in the public sector is beyond me ???
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Seems to be going round in circles now this topic I'm out.
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I hear Trump is a very successful businessman? :D
in between his 6 bankruptcies ;)