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Author Topic: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'  (Read 3265 times)

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hotel21

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Re: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'
« Reply #60 on: 07 September 2010, 00:49:16 »

Apologies, Banjax....  I interupted your copy and paste.....   :)
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Banjax

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Re: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'
« Reply #61 on: 07 September 2010, 00:49:22 »

and the bodies that don't agree or havent decided?

Non-committal statements
[edit]American Association of Petroleum Geologists
As of June 2007, the American Association of Petroleum Geologists (AAPG) Position Statement on climate change stated:
the AAPG membership is divided on the degree of influence that anthropogenic CO2 has on recent and potential global temperature increases ... Certain climate simulation models predict that the warming trend will continue, as reported through NAS, AGU, AAAS and AMS. AAPG respects these scientific opinions but wants to add that the current climate warming projections could fall within well-documented natural variations in past climate and observed temperature data. These data do not necessarily support the maximum case scenarios forecast in some models.[82]
Prior to the adoption of this statement, the AAPG was the only major scientific organization that rejected the finding of significant human influence on recent climate, according to a statement by the Council of the American Quaternary Association.[2] Explaining the plan for a revision, AAPG president Lee Billingsly wrote in March 2007:
Members have threatened to not renew their memberships... if AAPG does not alter its position on global climate change.... And I have been told of members who already have resigned in previous years because of our current global climate change position.... The current policy statement is not supported by a significant number of our members and prospective members.[83]
AAPG President John Lorenz announced the sunsetting of AAPG’s Global Climate Change Committee in January 2010. The AAPG Executive Committee determined:
Climate change is peripheral at best to our science…. AAPG does not have credibility in that field…….and as a group we have no particular knowledge of global atmospheric geophysics.[84]
[edit]American Association of State Climatologists
The Association has no current statement. The previous statement, discussed below, became inoperative in 2008.[85]
The 2001 statement from the American Association of State Climatologists noted the difficulties with predicting impacts due to climate change, while acknowledging that human activities are having an effect on climate:
Climate prediction is difficult because it involves complex, nonlinear interactions among all components of the earth’s environmental system.... The AASC recognizes that human activities have an influence on the climate system. Such activities, however, are not limited to greenhouse gas forcing and include changing land use and sulfate emissions, which further complicates the issue of climate prediction. Furthermore, climate predictions have not demonstrated skill in projecting future variability and changes in such important climate conditions as growing season, drought, flood-producing rainfall, heat waves, tropical cyclones and winter storms. These are the type of events that have a more significant impact on society than annual average global temperature trends. Policy responses to climate variability and change should be flexible and sensible – The difficulty of prediction and the impossibility of verification of predictions decades into the future are important factors that allow for competing views of the long-term climate future. Therefore, the AASC recommends that policies related to long-term climate not be based on particular predictions, but instead should focus on policy alternatives that make sense for a wide range of plausible climatic conditions regardless of future climate... Finally, ongoing political debate about global energy policy should not stand in the way of common sense action to reduce societal and environmental vulnerabilities to climate variability and change. Considerable potential exists to improve policies related to climate.[86]
[edit]American Geological Institute
In 1999, the American Geological Institute (AGI) issued the position statement ‘’Global Climate Change’’:
The American Geological Institute (AGI) strongly supports education concerning the scientific evidence of past climate change, the potential for future climate change due to the current building of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases, and the policy options available.
Understanding the interactions between the solid Earth, the oceans, the biosphere, and the atmosphere both in the present and over time is critical for accurately analyzing and predicting global climate change due to natural processes and possible human influences.[87]
[edit]American Institute of Professional Geologists
In 2009, the American Institute of Professional Geologists (AIPG) sent a statement to President Barack Obama and other US government officials:
The geological professionals in AIPG recognize that climate change is occurring and has the potential to yield catastrophic impacts if humanity is not prepared to address those impacts. It is also recognized that climate change will occur regardless of the cause. The sooner a defensible scientific understanding can be developed, the better equipped humanity will be to develop economically viable and technically effective methods to support the needs of society.[88]
Concerned that the original statement issued in March 2009 was too ambiguous, AIPG’s National Executive Committee approved a revised position statement issued in January 2010:
The geological professionals in AIPG recognize that climate change is occurring regardless of cause. AIPG supports continued research into all forces driving climate change.[89]
In August 2009, the Ohio Section of AIPG submitted a position statement to Senators Brown and Voinovich opposing H.R. 2454, the Markey-Waxman climate bill. The statement professed that “there is no scientific evidence supporting…. the premise that human production of CO2 gas is responsible for ‘global warming’….” The statement went on to challenge the findings of the IPCC and made numerous references to articles published by the Heartland Institute.[90]
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Banjax

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Re: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'
« Reply #62 on: 07 September 2010, 00:49:51 »

In March 2010, AIPG’s Executive Director issued a statement regarding polarization of opinions on climate change within the membership and announced that the AIPG Executive had made a decision to cease publication of articles and opinion pieces concerning climate change in AIPG’s news journal, The Professional Geologist. The Executive Director noted that “the question of anthropogenicity of climate change is contentious.” [91]
[edit]Canadian Federation of Earth Sciences
In 2001, the Canadian Federation of Earth Sciences issued the position paper Mitigating climate change: Putting our carbon dioxide back into the ground:
We contribute to the global problem of changing climate by our emissions of greenhouse gases - especially carbon dioxide – from industrial processes. A warming Earth has significant problems for Canada – instability in agricultural productivity, sinking of northern infrastructrure into melting permafrost, greater vulnerability of low-lying coastlines to storms.
While the Canadian Geoscience Council is not at this time taking a particular position specifically on the issue of global warming, the Council is establishing a position on the use of geological sinks to mitigate emissions of greenhouse gases, particularly CO2.[92]
[edit]Statements by dissenting organizations
With the release of the revised statement[93] by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists in 2007, no remaining scientific body of national or international standing is known to reject the basic findings of human influence on recent climate change.[2][3]
Statements by individual scientists opposing the mainstream assessment of global warming do include opinions that the earth has not warmed, or that warming is attributable to causes other than increasing greenhouse gases.
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hotel21

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Re: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'
« Reply #63 on: 07 September 2010, 00:50:08 »

And again...

Dont worry about it.  Its only bandwidth and server space.....   ;)
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Banjax

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Re: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'
« Reply #64 on: 07 September 2010, 00:50:34 »

Quote
Apologies, Banjax....  I interupted your copy and paste.....   :)

copy and paste? this is all from memory  :y
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Poptech

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Re: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'
« Reply #65 on: 07 September 2010, 00:51:21 »

Quote
as between 97 to 99% of all publishing climatologists agree on human-induced climate change
The bogus claim is 97% which is fraudulent nonsense,

Google Scholar illiteracy in the PNAS

The study you cite is absolutely worthless.

hotel21

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Re: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'
« Reply #66 on: 07 September 2010, 00:51:29 »

Quote
And again...

Dont worry about it.  Its only bandwidth and server space.....   ;)

That the membership does not (directly) pay for.  Admins carry it....   :-X
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Nickbat

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Re: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'
« Reply #67 on: 07 September 2010, 00:52:58 »

Banjax, your endless Googling and posting is pointless.

Science is not about consensus, it is about proof and fallibility. Let's be honest, I know a great deal more about the science than you do. Why won't you just discuss the individual issues calmly?

Please do not go overboard. It's not good for anyone, least of all the forum.  :(
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Banjax

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Re: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'
« Reply #68 on: 07 September 2010, 00:53:56 »

anyway, you get the point, I'd like to ask Albs, Nickbat and any deniers out there, which of the bodies supporting the IPCC report are in on this big conspiracy of yours?  :y

ps apologies for all the massive posts, but I'm sure it's only worth half a pic of someones rusty old Astra  :y
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Banjax

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Re: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'
« Reply #69 on: 07 September 2010, 00:54:40 »

Quote
Banjax, your endless Googling and posting is pointless.

Science is not about consensus, it is about proof and fallibility. Let's be honest, I know a great deal more about the science than you do. Why won't you just discuss the individual issues calmly?

Please do not go overboard. It's not good for anyone, least of all the forum.  :(

you said it  ;D
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hotel21

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Re: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'
« Reply #70 on: 07 September 2010, 00:55:51 »

Quote
anyway, you get the point, I'd like to ask Albs, Nickbat and any deniers out there, which of the bodies supporting the IPCC report are in on this big conspiracy of yours?  :y

ps apologies for all the massive posts, but I'm sure it's only worth half a pic of someones rusty old Astra :y

Mebbes Aye, Mebbes Naw.

But it certainly bores the tits off me, let alone anyone else having to wade through page upon page of Google/Wikipedia copy/paste....

Send him a book.  Save us all a headache.....   ;)   :y 
« Last Edit: 07 September 2010, 00:56:17 by hotel21 »
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Poptech

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Re: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'
« Reply #71 on: 07 September 2010, 00:57:58 »

Quote
anyway, you get the point, I'd like to ask Albs, Nickbat and any deniers out there, which of the bodies supporting the IPCC report are in on this big conspiracy of yours?
Can you show me the membership vote from a single scientific organization in support of their position statement released by a handful of committee members. Otherwise your spammed nonsense is a waste of time. Pretending that the thousands of members of those scientific organizations support the position statement is propaganda and dishonest.

Nickbat

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Re: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'
« Reply #72 on: 07 September 2010, 01:03:35 »

Quote
anyway, you get the point, I'd like to ask Albs, Nickbat and any deniers out there, which of the bodies supporting the IPCC report are in on this big conspiracy of yours?  :y

ps apologies for all the massive posts, but I'm sure it's only worth half a pic of someones rusty old Astra  :y

There is no direct conspiracy as such, but around the world there is circumstantial evidence that grants are being handed out to alarmist researchers and yet withheld from those who do not follow the AGW line. There is a distinct element of "Follow the Money". Even your bugbears, the oil companies, are making money out of the greenwash. The original point of this thread was that the IPCC has been shown to have made serious errors, as well as plagiarised books by alarmists. It is relatively unsurprising that a number of assocations have, in the past, signed up to the IPCC line. Now that line has been demonstrated to be driven more by politics than by science.

One can always find an opposing view. At the end of the day, the science is the only thing that matters.
 
Yuri Izrael is a director of the Global Climate and Ecology Institute and a member of[ch8232] the Russian Academy of Sciences. What does he have to say (yesterday)?

"There has never been a consensus that man is to blame for global warming among the experts at the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change  "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/russianow/opinion/7980382/Kyoto-is-costing-Russia-too-much.html

Until the science is settled (which it isn't), political decisions to spend trillions need to wait.
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Banjax

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Re: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'
« Reply #73 on: 07 September 2010, 01:03:58 »

my point is that the consensus is massive, that is the science - it's what you can reasonably make assumptions on - you Nickbat, love to take a black grain of sand from a golden beach and declare the beach is black and everyone telling you it's golden is buying into a big lie  ;)

now please tell me you get the point  :y

oh and science, is most certainly is about consensus - it's making predictions on future behaviour based on research - all you're sparking up, where its not myth or pseudo-science is some studies showing a different possibility....a few black grains, your arrogance on climate change is utterly breathtaking. and hilarious - keep up the good work  :y
« Last Edit: 07 September 2010, 01:04:40 by bannjaxx »
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hotel21

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Re: Meltdown of the 'climate consensus'
« Reply #74 on: 07 September 2010, 01:09:39 »

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding.......

End of contest.

Would all participants please retire to their red/blue/green/tartan corners, take a deep breath or several and think about what I have been trying to do here, please?

Discussion and debate is absolutely fine but endless quotes and copy/paste do not win arguments/discussions.

Reasoned, thought out, and succinctly accurately referenced information will always win against whitewashed information.

I have absolutely no thoughts or judgements either way.  Honestly!  Just dont want to have to wade through pages of words to make sure you are not going against forum guidelines!

locking.....

and breathe......   ;D
« Last Edit: 07 September 2010, 01:12:15 by hotel21 »
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