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[Nickbat]

Surprise, surprise. 

"If this keeps up, no one's going to trust any scientists."

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/meltdown_of_the_climate_consensus_G0kWdclUvwhVr6DYH6A4uJ

 

[Broomies Mate]

The problem with Science is, number one Scientist can 'prove' something... number two Scientist can disprove it, both using Science.

Oh well.

[Dishevelled Den]

The unfortunate thing is that some people have taken the 'science' as being beyond reproach


Lee said at the time that he experienced an ‘‘awakening” when he watched former Vice President Al Gore’s environmental documentary ‘‘An Inconvenient Truth.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38957020/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

[Nickbat]

The unfortunate thing is that some people have taken the 'science' as being beyond reproach


Lee said at the time that he experienced an ‘‘awakening” when he watched former Vice President Al Gore’s environmental documentary ‘‘An Inconvenient Truth.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38957020/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a477/kulaki/Cartoons/GorePachauriTheGigIsUp.jpg

[Banjax]

in 2010:

17 countries have hit all time high temperatures 
Pakistan recorded 129F, thats 54C- hottest ever recorded for the entire Asian continent 
before 2010 Moscow had never recorded 100F, this summer it's rarely been below that  :-?
What we've just had worldwide is the hottest six months ever recorded, including the hottest June and 2nd hottest July

this gives you warmer air, which holds more water vapour than cold, so deluge increases. Hence, Pakistan has seen the worst flooding in its history. Because heat cuts grain yields, Russia has stopped exporting grain, spiking prices.in Greenland – the ice melts.

As the USA prepares itself for yet another devasting hurricane, we're lucky - this is all a small taste of what's to come, think of it like a warning, a glimpse into the future of what a few degrees increase in the earths temp does to the planet.

Yep - it's a major major problem, maybe it's too big for us humans to grasp so we take the head in the sand approach and hope it's all a big lie and if we close our eyes and block our ears it'll go away........it's worth a shot 

We're not going to do a damn thing until London, Paris and New York are underwater - while its just a few million Asians getting washed away along with their towns and bridges we'll continue to look the other way and deny anythings changing 

[Gaffers]

in 2010:

17 countries have hit all time high temperatures 
Pakistan recorded 129F, thats 54C- hottest ever recorded for the entire Asian continent 
before 2010 Moscow had never recorded 100F, this summer it's rarely been below that  :-?
What we've just had worldwide is the hottest six months ever recorded, including the hottest June and 2nd hottest July

this gives you warmer air, which holds more water vapour than cold, so deluge increases. Hence, Pakistan has seen the worst flooding in its history. Because heat cuts grain yields, Russia has stopped exporting grain, spiking prices.in Greenland – the ice melts.

As the USA prepares itself for yet another devasting hurricane, we're lucky - this is all a small taste of what's to come, think of it like a warning, a glimpse into the future of what a few degrees increase in the earths temp does to the planet.

Yep - it's a major major problem, maybe it's too big for us humans to grasp so we take the head in the sand approach and hope it's all a big lie and if we close our eyes and block our ears it'll go away........it's worth a shot 

We're not going to do a damn thing until London, Paris and New York are underwater - while its just a few million Asians getting washed away along with their towns and bridges we'll continue to look the other way and deny anythings changing 

That article is not saying lets put our head in the sand and hope it's all okay.  It shows that a major leading 'authority' on climate change knowing relied on wrong and inaccurate information to make predictions and shock statements.  This in itself is unforgivable.  If you give a prediction to the best of your knowledge and it is proven false that's fine, that's science.  But if you know something to be false but then use it to say that all the ice in the Himalayers will be gone by 2035 then you can only be described as morally bankrupt and unworthy of high regard.

We need to do more to reduce our effect on the environment, what we dont need is large respected organisations lying to us so that we will submit to the thinking that they want us to.

[Dishevelled Den]

That article is not saying lets put our head in the sand and hope it's all okay.  It shows that a major leading 'authority' on climate change knowing relied on wrong and inaccurate information to make predictions and shock statements.  This in itself is unforgivable.  If you give a prediction to the best of your knowledge and it is proven false that's fine, that's science.  But if you know something to be false but then use it to say that all the ice in the Himalayers will be gone by 2035 then you can only be described as morally bankrupt and unworthy of high regard.

We need to do more to reduce our effect on the environment, what we dont need is large respected organisations lying to us so that we will submit to the thinking that they want us to.

I think that was a splendid analysis G. 8-)

The scientific community have been the real losers here as a result of the almost evangelical fervour displayed by some to prove the AGW theory.

We expect wide-boy tactics and double dealing from political organisations such as the UN, EU and other self-interested groups/individuals but not from science. [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

[Banjax]

yes, some scientists have behaved appallingly, the truth is really quite bad enough without "sexing" it up - hopefully the science gets tightened up to such a degree its proved beyond reasonable doubt to everyone that we are affecting our climate, a few idiots doesnt wash away decades of solid data - besides, doesn't all that sand get up your nose?

[mantahatch]

in 2010:

17 countries have hit all time high temperatures 
Pakistan recorded 129F, thats 54C- hottest ever recorded for the entire Asian continent 
before 2010 Moscow had never recorded 100F, this summer it's rarely been below that  :-?
What we've just had worldwide is the hottest six months ever recorded, including the hottest June and 2nd hottest July

this gives you warmer air, which holds more water vapour than cold, so deluge increases. Hence, Pakistan has seen the worst flooding in its history. Because heat cuts grain yields, Russia has stopped exporting grain, spiking prices.in Greenland – the ice melts.
As the USA prepares itself for yet another devasting hurricane, we're lucky - this is all a small taste of what's to come, think of it like a warning, a glimpse into the future of what a few degrees increase in the earths temp does to the planet.

Yep - it's a major major problem, maybe it's too big for us humans to grasp so we take the head in the sand approach and hope it's all a big lie and if we close our eyes and block our ears it'll go away........it's worth a shot 

We're not going to do a damn thing until London, Paris and New York are underwater - while its just a few million Asians getting washed away along with their towns and bridges we'll continue to look the other way and deny anythings changing 

Sorry to be a trouble maker, but the name Greenland, where does it come from. I was told that when discovered by modern people Greenland was in fact green. So it could just as easily be argued that global cooling caused Greenland to freeze up.



http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_Greenland_get_its_name

[Gaffers]

yes, some scientists have behaved appallingly, the truth is really quite bad enough without "sexing" it up - hopefully the science gets tightened up to such a degree its proved beyond reasonable doubt to everyone that we are affecting our climate, a few idiots doesnt wash away decades of solid data - besides, doesn't all that sand get up your nose?

If you're referring to my day job, no.  I left a good career in France to do what I am doing now.  I go where I am told and I do what I am told to do and I love it, so do all my colleagues.  In fact we are queuing up to get out 'in the sand' so I guess that answers your question 

What gets up my nose is people passing judgement on the way forward out there when they haven't the foggiest about what actually happens on the ground, and thats not a dig at you Banjax just at various parts of the public at large 

I suppose there is an element of my frustrations with the public perception of the Armed Forces that correlates to this thread.  If I lie or mislead my guys, I lose their respect and most worryingly their trust.  Once it's gone you cant get it back.  The same can be said with the actions of a few naughty soldiers getting us all tarnished with the same brush we all bear the brunt of that lack of judgement or honesty.  I fear science as a whole will suffer most of this Climate debate. 

Integrity is not what it was 

[Chris_H]

That report includes a number of criticisms that have been previously revealed, discussed and put behind us.  Printing them again doesn't actually make any difference to the truth.

The glacier 2035 thing, for instance was revealed to be based on a report citing 2350 IIRC.  A massive boo-boo but not actually two massive boo-boos.

[Nickbat]

in 2010:

17 countries have hit all time high temperatures 
Pakistan recorded 129F, thats 54C- hottest ever recorded for the entire Asian continent 
before 2010 Moscow had never recorded 100F, this summer it's rarely been below that  :-?
What we've just had worldwide is the hottest six months ever recorded, including the hottest June and 2nd hottest July

this gives you warmer air, which holds more water vapour than cold, so deluge increases. Hence, Pakistan has seen the worst flooding in its history. Because heat cuts grain yields, Russia has stopped exporting grain, spiking prices.in Greenland – the ice melts.

As the USA prepares itself for yet another devasting hurricane, we're lucky - this is all a small taste of what's to come, think of it like a warning, a glimpse into the future of what a few degrees increase in the earths temp does to the planet.

Yep - it's a major major problem, maybe it's too big for us humans to grasp so we take the head in the sand approach and hope it's all a big lie and if we close our eyes and block our ears it'll go away........it's worth a shot 

We're not going to do a damn thing until London, Paris and New York are underwater - while its just a few million Asians getting washed away along with their towns and bridges we'll continue to look the other way and deny anythings changing 

The Russian heatwave was NOT caused by climate change, but by rare, though not unprecedented atmospheric blocking.
Source: NOAA
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/csi/moscow2010/

This interrupton of the usual jet stream pattern will also have affected Pakistan

"In Greenland, the ice melts." Huh?  :-?
Ice always melts during the summer (!) and, at times, the North West passage becomes open to sea traffic (1906, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1944, 1957, 1969, 1977, 1984, 1988, and 2000, to name but a few). Global sea ice is pretty much exactly as it was 30 years ago. Scientists like Morner and gray have demonstrated that sea levels are not rising to any degree which could cause concern...making your "London, Paris and New York under water" remarks a bit daft, to be honest.

You talk about "another devastating hurricane" in the US. Hurricane activity has been in decline for some time now and, in any event, there is no scientific evidence whatsoever of a link between CO2 and hurricane formation. Hurricanes from over water and gain their energy from Oceanic temperature gradients. CO2 has no demontsrable affect on ocean temperature.

You talk about the record heat in Russia and Asia, but what about the record cold temperatures posted in South America, Australia and California? You should also not that surface temperature records are highly suspect. With increased urbanisation, it would be surprising if temperatures at many stations had NOT increased over the last 30 years. It is clear to most that the daytime absorption and nighttime release of IR radiation associated with modern building materials radically affects temperature. That's why central London is always hotter than the suburbs.      

On balance, the chances are that we are heading into a cold period, so we will need all the energy and technology we can get to stave off the adverse affects of a colder climate...which are, to humanity, far more dangerous than a benignly warmer climate.    

[Banjax]

yes, some scientists have behaved appallingly, the truth is really quite bad enough without "sexing" it up - hopefully the science gets tightened up to such a degree its proved beyond reasonable doubt to everyone that we are affecting our climate, a few idiots doesnt wash away decades of solid data - besides, doesn't all that sand get up your nose?

If you're referring to my day job, no.  I left a good career in France to do what I am doing now.  I go where I am told and I do what I am told to do and I love it, so do all my colleagues.  In fact we are queuing up to get out 'in the sand' so I guess that answers your question 

What gets up my nose is people passing judgement on the way forward out there when they haven't the foggiest about what actually happens on the ground, and thats not a dig at you Banjax just at various parts of the public at large 

I suppose there is an element of my frustrations with the public perception of the Armed Forces that correlates to this thread.  If I lie or mislead my guys, I lose their respect and most worryingly their trust.  Once it's gone you cant get it back.  The same can be said with the actions of a few naughty soldiers getting us all tarnished with the same brush we all bear the brunt of that lack of judgement or honesty.  I fear science as a whole will suffer most of this Climate debate. 

Integrity is not what it was 

It was a reference to anyone with their head in the sand Gaffers (from a previous post), not a dig at the forces 

[Banjax]

in 2010:

17 countries have hit all time high temperatures 
Pakistan recorded 129F, thats 54C- hottest ever recorded for the entire Asian continent 
before 2010 Moscow had never recorded 100F, this summer it's rarely been below that  :-?
What we've just had worldwide is the hottest six months ever recorded, including the hottest June and 2nd hottest July

this gives you warmer air, which holds more water vapour than cold, so deluge increases. Hence, Pakistan has seen the worst flooding in its history. Because heat cuts grain yields, Russia has stopped exporting grain, spiking prices.in Greenland – the ice melts.

As the USA prepares itself for yet another devasting hurricane, we're lucky - this is all a small taste of what's to come, think of it like a warning, a glimpse into the future of what a few degrees increase in the earths temp does to the planet.

Yep - it's a major major problem, maybe it's too big for us humans to grasp so we take the head in the sand approach and hope it's all a big lie and if we close our eyes and block our ears it'll go away........it's worth a shot 

We're not going to do a damn thing until London, Paris and New York are underwater - while its just a few million Asians getting washed away along with their towns and bridges we'll continue to look the other way and deny anythings changing 

The Russian heatwave was NOT caused by climate change, but by rare, though not unprecedented atmospheric blocking.
Source: NOAA
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/csi/moscow2010/

This interrupton of the usual jet stream pattern will also have affected Pakistan

"In Greenland, the ice melts." Huh?  :-?
Ice always melts during the summer (!) and, at times, the North West passage becomes open to sea traffic (1906, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1944, 1957, 1969, 1977, 1984, 1988, and 2000, to name but a few). Global sea ice is pretty much exactly as it was 30 years ago. Scientists like Morner and gray have demonstrated that sea levels are not rising to any degree which could cause concern...making your "London, Paris and New York under water" remarks a bit daft, to be honest.

You talk about "another devastating hurricane" in the US. Hurricane activity has been in decline for some time now and, in any event, there is no scientific evidence whatsoever of a link between CO2 and hurricane formation. Hurricanes from over water and gain their energy from Oceanic temperature gradients. CO2 has no demontsrable affect on ocean temperature.

You talk about the record heat in Russia and Asia, but what about the record cold temperatures posted in South America, Australia and California? You should also not that surface temperature records are highly suspect. With increased urbanisation, it would be surprising if temperatures at many stations had NOT increased over the last 30 years. It is clear to most that the daytime absorption and nighttime release of IR radiation associated with modern building materials radically affects temperature. That's why central London is always hotter than the suburbs.      

On balance, the chances are that we are heading into a cold period, so we will need all the energy and technology we can get to stave off the adverse affects of a colder climate...which are, to humanity, far more dangerous than a benignly warmer climate.    

now this is someone with their head in the sand 

[Banjax]

in 2010:

17 countries have hit all time high temperatures 
Pakistan recorded 129F, thats 54C- hottest ever recorded for the entire Asian continent 
before 2010 Moscow had never recorded 100F, this summer it's rarely been below that  :-?
What we've just had worldwide is the hottest six months ever recorded, including the hottest June and 2nd hottest July

this gives you warmer air, which holds more water vapour than cold, so deluge increases. Hence, Pakistan has seen the worst flooding in its history. Because heat cuts grain yields, Russia has stopped exporting grain, spiking prices.in Greenland – the ice melts.
As the USA prepares itself for yet another devasting hurricane, we're lucky - this is all a small taste of what's to come, think of it like a warning, a glimpse into the future of what a few degrees increase in the earths temp does to the planet.

Yep - it's a major major problem, maybe it's too big for us humans to grasp so we take the head in the sand approach and hope it's all a big lie and if we close our eyes and block our ears it'll go away........it's worth a shot 

We're not going to do a damn thing until London, Paris and New York are underwater - while its just a few million Asians getting washed away along with their towns and bridges we'll continue to look the other way and deny anythings changing 

Sorry to be a trouble maker, but the name Greenland, where does it come from. I was told that when discovered by modern people Greenland was in fact green. So it could just as easily be argued that global cooling caused Greenland to freeze up.



http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_Greenland_get_its_name

Greenland was named by Erik the Red when he was exiled there from Iceland, he called it Greenland in the hope settlers would flock to it as it sounds nicer than Freezing-icy-wasteland, it's never actually been green aside from the southernmost tip