Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Varche]

I flew over to primarily help with the process of my dad going in to Scarborough Hospital for a hip replacement. The day before the op they cancelled (not postponed) due to the ward being unfit due to bugs. Norovirus or C dificile or similar.

Couldn't advise when it would be rescheduled. Then they set fire to a patient while they were cleaning them with spirit. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-17222668

I have to fly back on Sunday as they still have no idea when they will reschedule. I wonder how much money this sort of cancelling of ops due to wards not being fit (Scarborough hospital already had two other wards closed due to bugs http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/ryedale/9554194.Vomiting_bug_hits__Scarborough_hospital_visits/r/?ref=rss) costs taxpayers. They can fritter billions on a computer system that doesn't work but can't keep a hospital clean for its purpose.

Cost of failure. To say I am angry with it is an understatement.

[albitz]

Its beyond outrageous.And those with vested interests are fighting change every step of the way.Not saying the changes are the whole answer,but ffs someone has to try something.
Got a not disimilar saga ongoing in our household at the moment.Given printed several sheeets of printed info which directly contradict each other,given medication to take but instructions say not to take this medicine if you have xx condition,which is the very condition being treated. Phone number to ring  at certain times of the day - ring constantly at that time,no-one answers.
Send email to person named with email address,reply is "Im on holiday for two weeks,contact person A or person B. No job title,phone number,email addresss for either of these people. Reinforces the idea that the thing is run on behalf of those who work there,and the patients arent much more than an inconvenience.

[Rods2]

Unfortunately, my dog gets looked after and treated much better at the local vets compared to human beings on the NHS. I personally think the regular and routine cancelling of operations at the last minute, with all of the anguish, stress and inconvenience this causes is an absolute disgrace, and any private business treating customers like this would not be in business long. 

They can't even get the basics right, like clean sterile conditions, to give the patients, the best chances of a good and healthy speedy recovery. If a national airline caused as many injuries and deaths per week through plane crashes as the NHS does through filthy conditions, it would be classed, quite rightly so, as national scandal and they would lose their CAA licence. But, because it is a Government run monopoly, then it is alright. 

Can somebody answer this question for me? The Monopolies and Mergers commission is there, quite correctly, to stop businesses having more than 25% of a market as it is considered bad for consumers, value for money and choice. Yet as soon as the Government runs a monopoly like the NHS and the education system, which are clearly very bad value for money and provide a terrible, much below acceptable standard of service, these monopolies are positively supported by all Governments and the taxpayer funded propaganda and indoctrination system, more commonly known as the BBC. 

Bryan, If I was you I would send the local trust the bill for your air fare, telling them without a refund you can't afford to fly across again, so they will have to provide home support, you won't be any worse off if they say no than you are now.

[Varche]

I shall do that BUT only after he has had his operation successfully. I will also copy it to Andrew Lansley . Won't get anywhere but it may help.

I have been ringing the PALS unit for two days with no reply. The "waiting team" have two members but only work Mon to Fri. Why can't they take it in turn to work a Saturday(for no extra money of course) and have a day off in the week and join the real world of customers.

[Taxi_Driver]

Unfortunately, my dog gets looked after and treated much better at the local vets compared to human beings on the NHS. I personally think the regular and routine cancelling of operations at the last minute, with all of the anguish, stress and inconvenience this causes is an absolute disgrace, and any private business treating customers like this would not be in business long. 

They can't even get the basics right, like clean sterile conditions, to give the patients, the best chances of a good and healthy speedy recovery. If a national airline caused as many injuries and deaths per week through plane crashes as the NHS does through filthy conditions, it would be classed, quite rightly so, as national scandal and they would lose their CAA licence. But, because it is a Government run monopoly, then it is alright. 

Can somebody answer this question for me? The Monopolies and Mergers commission is there, quite correctly, to stop businesses having more than 25% of a market as it is considered bad for consumers, value for money and choice. Yet as soon as the Government runs a monopoly like the NHS and the education system, which are clearly very bad value for money and provide a terrible, much below acceptable standard of service, these monopolies are positively supported by all Governments and the taxpayer funded propaganda and indoctrination system, more commonly known as the BBC. 

Bryan, If I was you I would send the local trust the bill for your air fare, telling them without a refund you can't afford to fly across again, so they will have to provide home support, you won't be any worse off if they say no than you are now.

Im not disagreeing with most of what you say, however i take a nurse to work at my local hospital quite often.....i have asked her before why wards get closed/etc. Her answer was because most of the virus's that close wards off/etc are airbourne......they might not even originate from the hospital......ie a visitor brings the virus in with him/her......visit's patient....passing it on to them....then any nurse/doctor attending the patient picks it up and before its known its being spread throughout the ward/hospital. So when a ward is closed.....the doctors and nurses visiting the closed ward have to be specially attired...ie everything possibly covered....and removed as soon as they leave the ward and sent for cleaning......

I didnt realise this......and if it was brought in via a visitor or even staff......theres no amount of cleanliness thats gonna stop it..
 

[Rods2]

Why are they spending fortunes on hand gel?

Everywhere a dispenser can be placed at Frimley Park Hospital it is.

[D]

Whilst I appreciate that the op being cancelled is frustrating. Would you rather prefer that your loved one was post op in a ward full of noro or other vomiting viruses. These sort of infections are often seasonal, sometimes sporadic and are difficult to control as very often are brought in by visitors into the hospital. Norovirus for example is air borne. Therefore very difficult to control.
C diff is caused by antibiotics. So some one needs antibiotics but at the same time giving it can cause a c diff infection. What are you supposed to do?

Rods2 post is a typical knee jerk reaction to issues like this. The reason being no one hears about the millions of ops that do happen on time, with out any complications. You dont hear about the extra hours that doctors and nurses put in without pay to go the extra mile for patients. For every odd bad sory you hear, there are probably thousands or more good outcomes. But nobody likes to post about good things that happen to them, its always easier to criticise than to praise.

A good example being a major hospital in London that I had previously worked in. It had a bad rep with regards to waiting times and treatment delays. What people did not realise was that the hospitals capacity was to treat 60k patients. At the same time it was seeing and providing care to about 100k patients. Clearly if you have a service that isnt designed to handle that work load then are you surprised when the odd mistake happens. Oh and whats the message from the purse string holders. A 10% reduction in expenses year on year for the next 5 years. Now thats going to help isnt it?

[Rods2]

French system infinitely better, where it is an 'insurance' system. You choose the hospital for treatment from private and public ones.

When you walk into the French hospital they only get paid by the Government health insurance system by treating you. You are not a pest using up public resources, that will be treated at the doctors / nurses convenience, but a customer that if they don't treat you then they don't have the money to pay wages etc. and the same applies if you are an unhappy customer as you can go to a different hospital.

IMHO If hospitals lost money through ward closure, where patients were not being treated like in the French system a lot more attention would be paid to putting in place systems to stop this happening.

Saying the NHS is fit for purpose is like saying Communism is fit to run countries. We know such systems don't work. I know there are many dedicated and hard working nurses and doctors within the NHS (like there were workers under communism), and without them the system would probably collapse, where it is fundamentally wrong.

Capitalism works as a efficient system where it attracts money from customers, from the company producing desirable products and services at the right price. Companies that can't or cease to do this go bust. In Communism / NHS resources are allocated by committees, who can't understand where the demand is or what is value for money. Your example of 100k people being treated on 60k resources is a typical illustration of a committee led system with its inefficient mis-allocation of resources.

I asked the question yesterday, if monopolies are so desirable, like the NHS and UK education system, then why do we have a Monopolies and Mergers commission to stop the same happening in private industry, where it has suddenly become undesirable? Totally illogical situation!!!!

My personal gripe is that as a taxpayer, I want my money to be used efficiently to provide good efficient health and education systems, it is impossible for Government monopolies to do this. 

[Bionic]

Time and time again I have said that they should never have done away with the old type of 'dragon' Matron. The next step down the road to the present scenario was when the cleaning was handed over to the private sector and the cleaning cowboys started to make as much as they could profitwise which meant not enough time being allocated for the job, a severe shortage of cleaning materials and staff that think a job is done if a wet mop is used to show they have been there.
I speak from knowing a cleaner who does the job correctly and she tells me that the large (National) cleaning company she works for causes exactly what I have already written.
Only when the NHS dumps the private sector cowboys and adopts the old time proven to work methods will we see a safe environment.
What amazes me is why no-one has yet sued the hospitals for them contracting a serious disease they aquirred while under the care of the hospital as an in patient? Do we really accept that we go into hospital to be made worse, or even die by incompetant, uncaring attitudes?
Bad enough the way the elderly are deprived of decent without previously healthy people being debilitated by filthy conditions. In a modertn world IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE and there can be no excuse. 

[D]

Bionic, you have never worked in the NHS or you wouldnt make a post like that. What one cleaner tells you is not representative of the whole NHS. There are so many variables that you havent even considered before making such an assumption.

For example. C diff probably existed even when old school matrons were in charge. Howeve no one knew about it. So if someone died due to it, you did not have a diagnosis or an alert attached to it. Do you really think that a matron getting a ward cleaned is enough to get rid of c diff?

Actually no. Because c diff exists as spores that are impossible to kill. So a nurse wiping or washing will not get rid of it. You need special solutions with PPE to clean. We have a national shortage of British nurses. So your suggestion is to take the nurses away from providing care and rather get them to don PPE and clean rooms. Who is going to look after patients then? The cleaners perhaps? Or is that what you really want? We could then import overseas staff to look after the patients perhaps. Oh the irony of it all!

[Bionic]

D. How do you know where I have worked or not? In Fact I did work for the NHS and IN a hospital after leaving the forces. Do not ever assume what you do not know for a fact.
Assumption? An assumption is not based on fact, my post was. One thing appears to be certain and that is that you probably work for the NHS in one capacity or another. I take your comment as some form of excuse for the present state we are expected to accept but it is an excuse that will not wash. There have been too many drops in standards for too many years.
All of my posts are always based on my own personal experiences, with some on the experiences of others whom I know to be the whole truth. Plus because over the past few years I have been in and out of hospitals more than a fiddlers elbow and have seen the dirty areas and the actions of the 'cleaning' crews for myself. In fact I have 3 formal complaints on the go at this moment in time with the UHL concerning what has happened during my 'holidays' in there! As the complaints are now at the Chief Executive level it should prove that I can make the statement I made.
Would you accept going in as a patient with a risk of contracting a disease that may well end your life or otherwise affect your health?  If you can reply yes to that then it shows that your opinion cannot be trusted due to its bias.
There has never been so many ward closures due to short staffing and disease as there is in recent times so I have not6hing to prove. The nationally reported facts speak for themselves.
As for C.Diff - it should never have been allowed to take the hold in the first place and now be so rife in our hospitals as it is now. Funny that the PM thinks the same way........

[D]

Apologies for my assumption. What capacity did you work in?

I make no excuses except for the fact that with the limited resources the NHS has, it does a pretty good job. That is from my experiences working in govt run institutions in Asia, Africa, the USA and a few European countries as well. A private system works well if you have money, but having woked in the American system I know the contempt with which people who dont have money or an adequate level of cover get treated with. I can expand on that having seen ventilators being shut off due to running out of money, something which would never be done in this country. But that is for another topic as I could go on for a while as to the shortcommings of a private system.

You may have a problem with (?University hospitals Leicester), but I have worked in at least 12 hospitals over the last 16 years and there is a difference in how services are provided across different hospitals. A dragon style matron is not the answer to the problem. That being my point in response to your original post.

Lastly with regards to infections; hospitals are a bed of infections due to very nature of sick/ill people who conglomerate there. So yes going into a hospital has its risks of picking up an infection therefore given the term "Hospital Acquired Infection". The risk of a patient picking up a HAI is 4% per day you stay in hospital. Irrespective of which country, latitude, matron, CEO or cleaning technique you use. That is a fact and you may not accept it, but it will not go away. On the other hand trying to discharge a patient so when they are well before they get an infection are usually countered with the argument of "oh, but I dont feel ready to go home, can I stay for a few more days till I feel a bit stronger". Try explaining to the patient that you want them to go home when they are well and before they pick up an infection is countered with a response of "Oh so you want to kick me out huh?". Either way you cannot win.

So yes my answer to your question is that you are at risk of picking up a HAI when you go into a hospital. I am not biased, that is a fact. Just like the fact that if you were to drive on a road you could be involved in an accident that could claim your life or worse still leave you paralysed!

C diff take hold? Basic medicine. You give a patient antibiotics they have a certain risk of getting C diff. It has nothing to do with it getting hold of anything. It is a statistical risk. Happy to post a proper article on C diff if there is interest. Not a wonky version off wikipedia or the like.

Staff shortages = existing staff having to work tired, longer hours, many doing extra unpaid shifts. So making one of them a matron who orders people about is again not the answer. It causes dissent and a sense of unequality. What needs to be done is to get the matron to pitch in as well and do some work. Which is why there are no more "Dragon Matrons" any more.

Is it perfect, no. Can it be improved, yes. Is it a terrible system, no I dont think so. Is a dragon matron the answer to the problem, no.

[D]

Sorry for going off topic OP. 


Hope it gets sorted soon.

[Bionic]

D. I do not appreciate being repliede to as though I am an idiot or uneducated. You do not know me. I knew from your first response you were an NHSer and for your information I worked as a nurse, on many types of wards (including the moribund and isolation ones they had then but don't now) and later became a staffie before I left to manage a business I had inherited. Is that good enough for you?
I congratulate you on your loyalty to your employer but my viewpoint remains exactly as it was. Privatisation and profit motivated contractors have massively contributed to the downhill slide in standards and there is no disputing that there has been a reduction in the quality of service given by the NHS as a whole. There have been many investigative journalists who have filmed inside many hospitals and the proof on film cannot be denied. Many hospitals have also been hauled over the coals for their poor standards and performance.
This is an argument you cannot win because you appear not to have the capacity to be impartial. Perhaps one day if you ever have to suffer as I have at the hands of the NHS then your tune would certainly change.
It would be pointless in replying to any more of your posts. 12 hospitals in 16 years tells me that you had never found one to your liking otherwise you would not have moved so often. Funny how you seem to know all of the statistics and quote them so readily. That in itself makes me think that you are banging a lone drum. The plain fact is that joe public is tired of the manner in which we are treated. For every one that praises their stay and care given there are many more who think the opposite. My local newspaper lets me in on that fact. Good old tv programs who have interviewed and filmed, plus the many adverse reports in the news of the carry on's have given us all we need to know. Someone preaching or trying to excuse it only serves to reinforce the negative opinion. 3 times bitten, now always shy as far as I am concerned.
Why is the my local Nuffield and Bupa Hospital so much better? Do not say that it because they have more funding after the amount of taxpayers taxes wasted by grandios plans by the NHS for many years! Fact is they are self funding and manage  fantasically well in providing an excellent service in all aspects. No dirt there!
A strict matron is the best answer so there is only one to answer to, and not a hoard of paper shuffling clipboard waving hangers on.

[Varche]

D. I do not appreciate being repliede to as though I am an idiot or uneducated. You do not know me. I knew from your first response you were an NHSer and for your information I worked as a nurse, on many types of wards (including the moribund and isolation ones they had then but don't now) and later became a staffie before I left to manage a business I had inherited. Is that good enough for you?
I congratulate you on your loyalty to your employer but my viewpoint remains exactly as it was. Privatisation and profit motivated contractors have massively contributed to the downhill slide in standards and there is no disputing that there has been a reduction in the quality of service given by the NHS as a whole. There have been many investigative journalists who have filmed inside many hospitals and the proof on film cannot be denied. Many hospitals have also been hauled over the coals for their poor standards and performance.
This is an argument you cannot win because you appear not to have the capacity to be impartial. Perhaps one day if you ever have to suffer as I have at the hands of the NHS then your tune would certainly change.
It would be pointless in replying to any more of your posts. 12 hospitals in 16 years tells me that you had never found one to your liking otherwise you would not have moved so often. Funny how you seem to know all of the statistics and quote them so readily. That in itself makes me think that you are banging a lone drum. The plain fact is that joe public is tired of the manner in which we are treated. For every one that praises their stay and care given there are many more who think the opposite. My local newspaper lets me in on that fact. Good old tv programs who have interviewed and filmed, plus the many adverse reports in the news of the carry on's have given us all we need to know. Someone preaching or trying to excuse it only serves to reinforce the negative opinion. 3 times bitten, now always shy as far as I am concerned.
Why is the my local Nuffield and Bupa Hospital so much better? Do not say that it because they have more funding after the amount of taxpayers taxes wasted by grandios plans by the NHS for many years! Fact is they are self funding and manage  fantasically well in providing an excellent service in all aspects. No dirt there!
A strict matron is the best answer so there is only one to answer to, and not a hoard of paper shuffling clipboard waving hangers on.

I have quite a lot of experience of Leicester hospitals and haven't sadly a good word for them. That was up to eight years ago. However I also have my brother in laws experience of the local BUPA hospital. He went in 9 years ago for an appendicectamy and the day after disharge collapsed in bathroom at home and had to be ambulanced to Leicester where the same surgeon that performed the BUPA operation opened him up on the NHS and took out the swab that had been left in. Doesn't inspire confidence.

I am back home in Spain now so best laid plans and all that.