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Author Topic: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs  (Read 8582 times)

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feeutfo

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Re: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs
« Reply #15 on: 30 April 2012, 21:49:10 »

Twiglet is looking for a slightly lower ride height, without going overly firm. 30mill would be ott so that leaves mv6 lsc. Flaw in the plan is self levelling shocks aren't too clever as dampers, but as it's an estate and carrys load I gather, keep SL.

And TB, i260 rekons your car looks like a crap Astra. ;D
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TheBoy

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Re: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs
« Reply #16 on: 30 April 2012, 21:51:41 »

And TB, i260 rekons your car looks like a crap Astra. ;D
235 on mine. Don't want to go wider for fear of buggering up the handling.
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twiglet

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Re: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs
« Reply #17 on: 30 April 2012, 22:09:17 »

Twiglet is looking for a slightly lower ride height, without going overly firm. 30mill would be ott so that leaves mv6 lsc. Flaw in the plan is self levelling shocks aren't too clever as dampers, but as it's an estate and carrys load I gather, keep SL.

Correct Chris.  I really don't want to lose the self leveling if I can help it.  I realise this is always going to be a compromise, but surely at the end of the day, MV6 lsc with S/L shocks can only ever be an improvement on standard elite suspension?  :-\
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feeutfo

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Re: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs
« Reply #18 on: 30 April 2012, 22:31:08 »

Twiglet is looking for a slightly lower ride height, without going overly firm. 30mill would be ott so that leaves mv6 lsc. Flaw in the plan is self levelling shocks aren't too clever as dampers, but as it's an estate and carrys load I gather, keep SL.

Correct Chris.  I really don't want to lose the self leveling if I can help it.  I realise this is always going to be a compromise, but surely at the end of the day, MV6 lsc with S/L shocks can only ever be an improvement on standard elite suspension?  :-\
Absolutely. ANYTHING is better than Elite suspension. It's hopeless. Although very comfortable...for those "steadier" moments.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs
« Reply #19 on: 01 May 2012, 12:05:31 »

Interesting.. I'm very tempted to upgrade my Westfield from 15" wheels to 13" wheels to improve the handling. ;)
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aaronjb

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Re: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs
« Reply #20 on: 01 May 2012, 12:11:17 »

Interesting.. I'm very tempted to upgrade my Westfield from 15" wheels to 13" wheels to improve the handling. ;)

Will there be any room left for the brakes, or are you just not bothering with those? They are unsprung weight, after all.. ;) ;D
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tigers_gonads

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Re: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs
« Reply #21 on: 01 May 2012, 12:13:02 »

Interesting.. I'm very tempted to upgrade my Westfield from 15" wheels to 13" wheels to improve the handling. ;)

Will there be any room left for the brakes, or are you just not bothering with those? They are unsprung weight, after all.. ;) ;D

You could always cut a hole in the floor and dig your heels in  ;D ;D
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feeutfo

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Re: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs
« Reply #22 on: 01 May 2012, 12:32:05 »

And TB, i260 rekons your car looks like a crap Astra. ;D
235 on mine. Don't want to go wider for fear of buggering up the handling.
sure I saw 225 on there? Anyway, 10mm differance between a crap Astra and a non crap omega...? That's a fine line.
 
245 on mine. I think you lot know me well enough by now to know if there was an issue with that size, or any handling issues with the car, I'd be on here moaning about it long before now?

Only issues I have, slightly too harsh over broken surfaces. A knock from the front believed to be wheel baring play, but we'll see. And the back sits about 15mill too low, needs some levelling capability when fully loaded. Mostly due to LPG tank. Other than that I can't fault it.

Oh, and pas is too stiff, possibly top mount barings pitted causing that, again, we'll see. Seems worse turning one way.

Anyway, non of that can be attributed to tyre width. And the tyres on there are over half worn. Veeeery slight tram line starting to creap in with sc3's. But I'd expect that, if not worse, with any other tyre. Re fit the oe wheels and tram lining is worse.

So IMO it's more down to tyre construction and wear to the profile than an extra few mill either side of the wheel centre line. I can't see 5 or 10mm extra width of contact patch making much odds to handling. Certainly, on another front, 8mill differance in offset between et30 and et38 makes no odds at all to handling! ( other than 16mill wider track)

(note, minor issue with sc3 245with rim protection rubbing the shock upright on more camber than 1.20.    1.10 is fine. But I have the stock 235 45 17 with Potenza+rim protection and they won't physically go on the front at all on either side, as the shock is in the way. When I got the car they where on the back, with non rim protection on the front.)
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feeutfo

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Re: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs
« Reply #23 on: 01 May 2012, 13:23:23 »

Interesting.. I'm very tempted to upgrade my Westfield from 15" wheels to 13" wheels to improve the handling. ;)
"Stigo" agrees. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Prks8Sdq9Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Need to watch to the end.
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Martian

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Re: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs
« Reply #24 on: 01 May 2012, 14:17:23 »

In that case as Twiglet says. I'd suggest not lowering below 30mill tbh. (ie 15mill lower than mv6 lowered sports chassis of the face lift mv6) as rear camber will be compromised possibly requiring a corection kit and making the ride unpleasant. But then if lowering for appearance only, non of that will be important.

All lowering kits work from the standard ride height. Mv6 is non standard ride height on face lift.
Can I pick your brains Chris?

1998 Beemer 318 iS 4 door saloon (E36), came with the complete M-Sport pack from factory.
The M-Sport pack gives a 15mm F/11mm R drop over a standard 318 iS, and the M-Sport tyre size is 225/50 16 (stock 318 iS is 205/60 15).

A pair of rear M-Sport springs is £320 so I've gone down the road of buying a complete set of Koni lowering springs that give a 40mm F/20mm R drop on a stock 318iS.
As I'm already dropped by 15mm F/11mm R I do believe the kit I have bought will give a real life drop of 25mm F/9mm R over what I already have, and the springs are certified for use with the stock M-Sport shocks.

Front suspension is Macpherson struts on trailing arms and the camber angle is fixed, although you can buy 3rd party washers to apply very minor adjustments should they be required.
Rear suspension is independant wishbone and the camber is adjustable.

A 25mm drop on the front will leave me with 105mm of ground clearance between the spoiler & the tarmac. Aside from some speed humps possibly requiring some care when traversing them, can you envisage any other potential pitfalls in dropping the car that much?
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Zippy2012

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Re: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs
« Reply #25 on: 01 May 2012, 16:47:20 »

Twiglet is looking for a slightly lower ride height, without going overly firm. 30mill would be ott so that leaves mv6 lsc. Flaw in the plan is self levelling shocks aren't too clever as dampers, but as it's an estate and carrys load I gather, keep SL.

Correct Chris.  I really don't want to lose the self leveling if I can help it.  I realise this is always going to be a compromise, but surely at the end of the day, MV6 lsc with S/L shocks can only ever be an improvement on standard elite suspension?  :-\

on my 1999 3.0MV6 estate im running 30mm drop front springs & bmw E46 rear spings giving me a 45mm drop on rear so she sits level, ive kept my S/L rear shocks but adjusted the hight sensor in which they get pressurised, prob easyer on a 4post ramp but 4 wheel ramps do the job so you can get under it, with car empty it sits perfect!! nice & level, i adjusted the sensor just under ride hight so they have a small amount of psi to inflate the bags, i then loaded the boot with as much stuff + bit more that i would norm carry & then started up car, it lifted it up level again, car drives well but kinda soft on heavy hoofing round roundabouts when loaded, but if you start playing with a piece from this & lets try that etc like me it will take you ages to get a happy medium, buy a proven kit & check the mmdrop before you buy because some dont drop the rears!!! only a 30mm front rear 0mm

BUT ONLY 2 ISSUES!! 45mm drop on rear is too much so on mv6 over standard thats 60mm im running to get it level! i have to cross bridge speedbumps sideways & i still hit the cats & center boxes!! or slam towbar into hump if i go over slightly to quick! & by quick i mean over 5-10mph so you can tell i piss other road users off alot!! You will need to reset your rear camber my rears are pitched in at top but havent been able to adjust as they are seized!!

now tyres, i got the car on 15"steels with 185/70/15s it spun both rears on every junction! then fitted 225/60/15s & had no probs drives great bumps in road hardly noticable, 225/55/16s would be standard size on elite 16 wheels,

i then fitted 17s 225 45 17 winter tyres as i had a set, but way to small look stupid bit bumpy ride & speedo wrong but handled great in that size etc! tbh,
The rears were low so fitted new uniroyal2s 245/40/17s & still drove great but a little more bumpy from rear,
Then wore fronts out & fitted partworn 245/40/17s all round!! WOW Big mistake!! very hard ride & from the front wondered & pulls all over the place nearly wrote car off few times! & wont corner in wet as front size to wide & more grip from rear!

Now as for 19s!! ive got a set off an oof member who's already commented on here! 8.5"js all round running a 235/35/19 front & 265/30/19 rear but ive managed 2 source a matching pair of 10"j rears! but im going up to a 275/35/19 so the ride wont be as harsh! i hope!! i keep you posted on how they go!
ive got a mate whos got a set of 5 vectra vxr 19" snowflakes for £450/£500
but if you buy vectra astra corsa 5x110 wheels you will need a 5/10mm spacer & longer bolts due to offset!!

If anybody wishes to view a pic of my estate on the 15s or 17s slammed on its arse PM Me with a mob number & i send you a pic

2bh eveyone has there own opinion on what drives best when it comes to tyres/wheels but if you have 17" fit a 235 45 17 uniroyal2 grip like hell wet or dry!! or a 16" wheel 225/55/16 is a good happy medium  but tyres are getting harder to find...
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Zippy2012

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Re: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs
« Reply #26 on: 01 May 2012, 16:56:46 »

Ive been toying with the idea of lowering my mv6 tourer but wondered if i bought -40mm springs would it lower it 40mm or would it be less considering the mv6 already has slightly lowered suspension?
Any help would be appreciated.
Kenny

-40mm on a standard vehical ride height so you would only notice a 25mm drop. but on -40mm you will need to adjust rear tracking & some garages wont touch it!! dont go too low on front or you will damage your cats on humps & your sump!! "been there done that"

ive been messing with mine for 5mths & just got it how i want it, 35-55ish
 
if it has S/L rear shocks & you tow with it dont lower it!!

but buy best you can afford cheep springs sagg & snap ebiach proven & are the best, i was skint so i used other manufactures rear springs till i got ride hight i wanted...
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feeutfo

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Re: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs
« Reply #27 on: 02 May 2012, 01:31:13 »

In that case as Twiglet says. I'd suggest not lowering below 30mill tbh. (ie 15mill lower than mv6 lowered sports chassis of the face lift mv6) as rear camber will be compromised possibly requiring a corection kit and making the ride unpleasant. But then if lowering for appearance only, non of that will be important.

All lowering kits work from the standard ride height. Mv6 is non standard ride height on face lift.
Can I pick your brains Chris?

1998 Beemer 318 iS 4 door saloon (E36), came with the complete M-Sport pack from factory.
The M-Sport pack gives a 15mm F/11mm R drop over a standard 318 iS, and the M-Sport tyre size is 225/50 16 (stock 318 iS is 205/60 15).

A pair of rear M-Sport springs is £320 so I've gone down the road of buying a complete set of Koni lowering springs that give a 40mm F/20mm R drop on a stock 318iS.
As I'm already dropped by 15mm F/11mm R I do believe the kit I have bought will give a real life drop of 25mm F/9mm R over what I already have, and the springs are certified for use with the stock M-Sport shocks.

Front suspension is Macpherson struts on trailing arms and the camber angle is fixed, although you can buy 3rd party washers to apply very minor adjustments should they be required.
Rear suspension is independant wishbone and the camber is adjustable.

A 25mm drop on the front will leave me with 105mm of ground clearance between the spoiler & the tarmac. Aside from some speed humps possibly requiring some care when traversing them, can you envisage any other potential pitfalls in dropping the car that much?
sorry M ment to get back to this earlier. Er. Dunno. Basically! Not familiar with that model and the suspension design. I'm aware the camber is non adjustable on e39s and would expect it and yours to need a correction if altering ride height. The two m sports I've encountered have been way to harsh IMO. So I'd be reluctant to do anything to worsen that aspect. Although I wonder if your trailing arm/independent wishbone description re front and rear is back to front...?

Ps given the Marque I hope your impressed I have not recomended a box of matches? ;)
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kennny

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Re: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs
« Reply #28 on: 02 May 2012, 19:46:07 »

Just want to thank you all for your help.. Your all definatley more knowledgable than me. I dont think my car has self levelling suspension and is never used for towing or carrying any weight. I bought the estate as i personally prefer them to the saloon. I dont want anything too drastic that it affects the ride. Id love to have 19" snowflakes at some point so may just consider buying those first and seeing how it sits before i decide to lower.
Again many thanks for the information.
« Last Edit: 02 May 2012, 19:48:04 by kennny »
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TheBoy

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Re: mv6 suspension vs lowering springs
« Reply #29 on: 02 May 2012, 20:04:59 »

Interesting.. I'm very tempted to upgrade my Westfield from 15" wheels to 13" wheels to improve the handling. ;)

Will there be any room left for the brakes, or are you just not bothering with those? They are unsprung weight, after all.. ;) ;D
Kevin Wood? Brakes? On a Westfield? Why?

Our Mr Wood prefers to use grass banks, and central reservations to slow down ::)
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