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[Wayne]

thanks James

[ozzycat]

Wayne,

I am posting this simply as a forum member giving my views in response to your original question. It is not to be "holier than thou" but is intended in good faith to encourage you to do the right thing.

You ordered 1 item. 2 items have turned up. You are in full knowledge that you are only entitled to keep one of these items, and, even if you don't know exactly what the legal position is, the very fact you have posted come on here and ask about whether you could "get away with it" or "be traced" clearly shows that you don't think it would be right or honest to keep the second iPhone.

Without going into any boring details, UK law says in summary that someone is guilty of stealing if he/she dishonestly comes by property (the iphone) belonging to someone else (vodafone) and intends to permanently deprive the owner of it (keeping it for a family member).

So the bottom line is, if you keep the phone, it's Theft.

You have gone as far as make a series of posts on a public forum, asking for advice on if you could get away with nicking the phone, and if so, how to get away with it.

Firstly, you never know who is reading your posts. As a few examples, There are some police officers on this forum, some serving, some retired, who may feel it appropraite to pass the information on. There are also some solicitors, magistrates, and various people who work within the Criminal Justice System who actively use this site, who may well take an interest in what you are writing.

It only takes for one of those to take an interest and pass the information on. Once some digging is then done by the appropriate agency, you'll be amazed what could be found out from just your forum posts.

For example, you clearly give your name as Wayne Harris from Stanford in the Vale, Oxfordshire, in your Signature. I can't imaging there being many Wayne Harris's in this village. A look in the phone book might even give the required information. You provide a website link in your signature, which any person on the internet can see has been registered via 123-reg. Although you may have whois optout, a legal body could make an application or get some form of obligation for the ISP to release your identity. Your unique IP is logged every time you post on this forum, I would imagine some kind of application could be made to the founders of OOF in order to compel them to relase any such information held.

Your profile also displays an email address of bongioviwayne@aol.com, which is another route that could be used to identify you.

I know very little about data protection, so none of the above is set it stone, but it just highlights the fact that you have openly, to anyone, provided few very strong indications of who you are. Everything I have just typed is publicly on your profile, and anyone with a tiny bit of common sense could work it out.

And as also mentioned - with new technology, tracking, activation etc, there is another aspect that may catch you out.

I seem to recall you're around my age - mid/late 20's? Can you afford a criminal record?

To put this whole thing into perspective, think about the consequences if you get caught, and done for it. Ok, you may not have any / many previous offences on your record, and may only get a fine if you get convicted - but think of the wider consequences. If you get convicted of a dishonesty related offence, you could lose your current job if you have one - and you will without doubt struggle to ever get another decent one.

I repeat, this is NOT intended to be on a soap box, or holier than thou, it is intended to HELP the OP, by giving him some encouragement to do the right thing and give him some reasonable information on how he will probably never get away with nicking the 2nd iPhone.

Wayne. call the provider and tell them you've got it, and they're welcome to collect it. You're totally in the clear then. If they tell you to keep it, your honesty has paid dividends and you'll be able to sleep at night, rather than having that niggling thought in the back of your mind..


I hope you do the right thing

yes i agree

[Andy B]

....

I repeat, this is NOT intended to be on a soap box, or holier than thou,  .....

You're not doing a very good job ........ 

[albitz]

Looks like Wayne has just deleted his account.

[JamesV6CDX]

....

I repeat, this is NOT intended to be on a soap box, or holier than thou,  .....

You're not doing a very good job ........ 

I was polite, objective, factual, and explained I was posting not to have a dig, but in good faith in relation to his best interests. I make no apology for anything I have written.

[Vamps]

Wayne,

I am posting this simply as a forum member giving my views in response to your original question. It is not to be "holier than thou" but is intended in good faith to encourage you to do the right thing.

You ordered 1 item. 2 items have turned up. You are in full knowledge that you are only entitled to keep one of these items, and, even if you don't know exactly what the legal position is, the very fact you have posted come on here and ask about whether you could "get away with it" or "be traced" clearly shows that you don't think it would be right or honest to keep the second iPhone.

Without going into any boring details, UK law says in summary that someone is guilty of stealing if he/she dishonestly comes by property (the iphone) belonging to someone else (vodafone) and intends to permanently deprive the owner of it (keeping it for a family member).

So the bottom line is, if you keep the phone, it's Theft.

You have gone as far as make a series of posts on a public forum, asking for advice on if you could get away with nicking the phone, and if so, how to get away with it.

Firstly, you never know who is reading your posts. As a few examples, There are some police officers on this forum, some serving, some retired, who may feel it appropraite to pass the information on. There are also some solicitors, magistrates, and various people who work within the Criminal Justice System who actively use this site, who may well take an interest in what you are writing.

It only takes for one of those to take an interest and pass the information on. Once some digging is then done by the appropriate agency, you'll be amazed what could be found out from just your forum posts.

For example, you clearly give your name as Wayne Harris from Stanford in the Vale, Oxfordshire, in your Signature. I can't imaging there being many Wayne Harris's in this village. A look in the phone book might even give the required information. You provide a website link in your signature, which any person on the internet can see has been registered via 123-reg. Although you may have whois optout, a legal body could make an application or get some form of obligation for the ISP to release your identity. Your unique IP is logged every time you post on this forum, I would imagine some kind of application could be made to the founders of OOF in order to compel them to relase any such information held.

Your profile also displays an email address of bongioviwayne@aol.com, which is another route that could be used to identify you.

I know very little about data protection, so none of the above is set it stone, but it just highlights the fact that you have openly, to anyone, provided few very strong indications of who you are. Everything I have just typed is publicly on your profile, and anyone with a tiny bit of common sense could work it out.

And as also mentioned - with new technology, tracking, activation etc, there is another aspect that may catch you out.

I seem to recall you're around my age - mid/late 20's? Can you afford a criminal record?

To put this whole thing into perspective, think about the consequences if you get caught, and done for it. Ok, you may not have any / many previous offences on your record, and may only get a fine if you get convicted - but think of the wider consequences. If you get convicted of a dishonesty related offence, you could lose your current job if you have one - and you will without doubt struggle to ever get another decent one.

I repeat, this is NOT intended to be on a soap box, or holier than thou, it is intended to HELP the OP, by giving him some encouragement to do the right thing and give him some reasonable information on how he will probably never get away with nicking the 2nd iPhone.

Wayne. call the provider and tell them you've got it, and they're welcome to collect it. You're totally in the clear then. If they tell you to keep it, your honesty has paid dividends and you'll be able to sleep at night, rather than having that niggling thought in the back of your mind..


I hope you do the right thing

Very well said....   Do not under estimate the power of the Internet, and the trail of evidence a persons activity leaves.   I am currently involved in my first 'cyber crime' the Police  leading, my understanding is limited, I am amazed at the evidence  that can be traced on a home computer........

[OmegaAnglesey]

Looks like you scared him off James if I was Wayne I would have been 

Although I do agree with James 

[Andy B]

...

I was polite,

Yes you were 

objective,

agreed 

factual,

agreed too

and explained I was posting not to have a dig, but in good faith in relation to his best interests.

 

I make no apology for anything I have written.

Not asking you to.
Still came across as holier than thou though. 


and I'd have already phoned to tell  them they'd sent two phones 

[JamesV6CDX]

Still came across as holier than thou though. 

Maybe so. But I explained from the outset, and again at the end of my post, it wasn't intended that way, in order to avoid any misunderstandings. People interpret the written word in different ways. Not sure I could do anything more

[Andy B]

....

Maybe so. But I explained from the outset, and again at the end of my post, it wasn't intended that way, in order to avoid any misunderstandings. People interpret the written word in different ways. Not sure I could do anything more

 

[D]

Odd that the OP felt the need to delete his account. I can only speculate that he had already decided to keep the phone and perhaps opened it/used it? Then jamesv6's eloquently put post scared the bejeesus out of him. Unfortunately his name/email/address/network provider are all on this post for all to see.

[JamesV6CDX]

Unfortunately his name/email/address/network provider are all on this post for all to see.

I'm sure admin can / will delete as they see fit. But I stress again, everything I posted was clearly visible, to any forum member, in the public domain.

My intention was not to scare Wayne off, simply to encourage him as to why it wouldn't be wise to try and defraud his provider

[D]

Absolutely correct James. I can even see what he looks like from his tribute band page.

[Lazydocker]

Unfortunately his name/email/address/network provider are all on this post for all to see.

I'm sure admin can / will delete as they see fit. But I stress again, everything I posted was clearly visible, to any forum member, in the public domain.

My intention was not to scare Wayne off, simply to encourage him as to why it wouldn't be wise to try and defraud his provider

There is nothing they need to delete. Wayne has been given sound advice and if he decides to ignore it then that's his call. Going on his past record for taking advice I think I know what will happen

[YZ250]

Odd that the OP felt the need to delete his account. I can only speculate that he had already decided to keep the phone and perhaps opened it/used it? Then jamesv6's eloquently put post scared the bejeesus out of him. Unfortunately his name/email/address/network provider are all on this post for all to see.

Agreed.  I'm sure Wayne would be grateful if this thread were to 'dissappear'. He obviously deleted his account to cover his ID on his signature but now has a carbon copy of it in reply #59.    Wouldn't a reference to those details, rather than repeating them for all to see, have been a more appropriate move. 

......and yes, I would have sent it back.