Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[tunnie]

The expansion vessel is dead easy to top up, it simply has a car type schreider valve on it and you add air the same way you inflate a tyre. 

Thanks again 

I guess its like car DIY work, once you know, you can save so much money!

[Marks DTM Calib]

You can, boilers and heating systems are pretty simple, nothing complex about them.

Plus you can then guarantee the quality of work done to.

[Kevin Wood]

Tunnie, google for an installation manual for the boiler and read it cover to cover. It will explain how the whole thing works in simple terms (a cowboy gas technician has to be able to get it working based on this after all)  and you'll then be able to figure out what in the ignition sequence is not working.

Start by topping up the pressure, though, bearing in mind that doing so might be curing the symptom not the fault.

[tunnie]

You can, boilers and heating systems are pretty simple, nothing complex about them.

Plus you can then guarantee the quality of work done to.

Absolutely.

Plus given prices I was quoted, you could send yourself on a course easily.

As i think the nervous part is first time having a go, seriously thinking of a basic course so I can get hands on and have a go

[tunnie]

Tunnie, google for an installation manual for the boiler and read it cover to cover. It will explain how the whole thing works in simple terms (a cowboy gas technician has to be able to get it working based on this after all)  and you'll then be able to figure out what in the ignition sequence is not working.

Start by topping up the pressure, though, bearing in mind that doing so might be curing the symptom not the fault.

Yes I've got it here, printing it work so I can have a good read later 

[OOMV6]

That pressure is to low.

Definately. And will stop it firing. If you bled rads and lost water, even a relatively small amount, that could have been enough. Top it up, but not to to full stipulated pressure until heating it is warm. The warming of the water will give a little more pressure, so may end up exceeding the 1.1 bar

[Kevin Wood]

How much the pressure rises, assuming that a top up gets it firing again, is your clue to the nature of the fault, by the way.

Top it up to 1 BAR and then fire up the central heating at maximum temperature (I suspect mrs. T will mandate this step anyway ;-) ). Depending on the system, the pressure will rise a little, maybe to 1.5 BAR, as the expansion vessel takes up the increase in the volume of the water. If it increases more than this, and certainly if it gets anywhere 3 BAR where the vent valve will likely operate, there is a problem with your expansion vessel (it either needs pumping up or it has failed).

If the above step looks OK, but the pressure drops and the problem occurs again, you probably have a leak. The pressure relief valve would be the first place to look here. It might be opening early. If it's not that, then the hunt begins in earnest.

[tunnie]

Right, firstly huge, HUGE thanks to MarksDTM & Mr Wood, as ever their technical input in anything is second to none.     

Long story short, heating is working, hot water is running. So MrsT will be happy when she returns 

As the image showed earlier in the thread, pressure was around 0.6 bar, I've opened the valve to let the pressure rise to around 1.2 bar. After closing the valve it dropped a bit again, so opened and shut it quite quickly, waited until it settled on 1.2 bar (cold)

With heating running for 5/10 mins or so at 50%, its running at around 1.4 bar, so rose around 0.2



I've now turned up the heating to Max, will see what it does 

I'm also going to do as MarksDTM suggested and monitor it closely over next few weeks 

[Taxi_Driver]

Well done guys for helping tunnie fix his boiler 

I sometimes read these threads and do wonder if im doing the right thing by planning on swapping out my 30yo boiler for a condensing combi. 

These modern boilers all seem to have problems......where as my 30yo one, it has a thermostat, a gas valve and a heater exchanger/burner, and that is it! Not a lot to go wrong.....in fact in the 15years or so i have lived here, I have changed the separate timer and separate pump .... and thats been the total of the whole system going wrong.

I probably will tho......as im also looking at ripping out all the rads for energy efficient ones as well.....

[TheBoy]

Glad its working Tunnie.

Boilers really are quite simple things at the end of the day, as DTM and KW say, so normally easy to logically think why its not working. Some Installation/Service manuals have flowcharts so that even Corgi/Gassafe technicians can follow it.

Fault codes and flash codes are a bit like Tech2 and similar - they hint at what it thinks is wrong, which may not be the real cause.

Keep a close eye on the pressure over the coming weeks, in case there is a small, as yet undetected, leak, or if the expansion chamber is fubar...  ...and resolve any issues before it becomes a bigger problem. Esp if it means Mrs Tunnie has a cold shower - I can imagine her suffering a sense of humour failure under such conditions in this weather

[TheBoy]

Well done guys for helping tunnie fix his boiler 

I sometimes read these threads and do wonder if im doing the right thing by planning on swapping out my 30yo boiler for a condensing combi. 

These modern boilers all seem to have problems......where as my 30yo one, it has a thermostat, a gas valve and a heater exchanger/burner, and that is it! Not a lot to go wrong.....in fact in the 15years or so i have lived here, I have changed the separate timer and separate pump .... and thats been the total of the whole system going wrong.

I probably will tho......as im also looking at ripping out all the rads for energy efficient ones as well.....

Biggest problem with condesnsing ones is poor fitting, allowing the drain to freeze/block.

[omega3000]

Just read through this , great that tunnie's heating is working thanks to you chaps  I always thought heating systems were a complicated system to work on , not it seems .
I was quoted similar call out prices as yourself tunnie but managed to sort it for £2.99 thanks to the guidance of martin42 on here   

[TheBoy]

Just read through this , great that tunnie's heating is working thanks to you chaps  I always thought heating systems were a complicated system to work on , not it seems .
I was quoted similar call out prices as yourself tunnie but managed to sort it for £2.99 thanks to the guidance of martin42 on here   

I have a Potterton, so its always going wrong. Some of the fixes have been expensive (gas valve was £90 a few years back IIRC, but I needed it in a hurry (ie, from a plumbers merchant)), most have been virtually free (Suprimas suffer with poor build quality on the ECU).

[tooleater]

Right, firstly huge, HUGE thanks to MarksDTM & Mr Wood, as ever their technical input in anything is second to none.     

Long story short, heating is working, hot water is running. So MrsT will be happy when she returns 

As the image showed earlier in the thread, pressure was around 0.6 bar, I've opened the valve to let the pressure rise to around 1.2 bar. After closing the valve it dropped a bit again, so opened and shut it quite quickly, waited until it settled on 1.2 bar (cold)

With heating running for 5/10 mins or so at 50%, its running at around 1.4 bar, so rose around 0.2



I've now turned up the heating to Max, will see what it does 

I'm also going to do as MarksDTM suggested and monitor it closely over next few weeks 

Sounds to me like divertor valve stuck in Hot water position. Tunr on a tap then hold on to flow pipe, big 22mm pipe on left if it gets hot the divertor has had it 

[Andy H]

Not very conclusive, do you know the boiler make/model?

No spark plug as such, its much more likely to be something else in reality.

If its a condensing boiler then we all know the common fault (hopefuly) given the weather and the general low quality installs but many of the experts.

The fault hints that the request for boiler ignition has not been reached from the sequencing device.

The basic sequence of events is;

Stat demands heat
Motorised valve moves to the correct position
Motorised valve calls for boiler to fire
Boiler starts fan
Once flue pressure differential is confirmed via pressure switch (e.g. fan running and no significant air leaks) then gas is turned on.
Ignition signal sent to ignite gas.
If gas ignition is succesful then keep gas valve open, if not then shut off gas (some repeat a few times before reporting a fault)

There are a few other interlocks on some setups e.g. condensing units where there are condensate level sensors which will also stop the boiler firing. Its often these that cause issues this time of year because way to many gas fitters dont follow (or choose to ignore - delete as appropriate) the building regs when installing condensate drains so they freeze up!

A little more information........
Electronic ignition boilers have something a bit like a spark plug that has three electrodes. One for the spark, a common earth electrode and the other (the ionisation probe) that sits in the flame to detect that combustion is taking place.

The ionisation probe is red hot most of the time and it needs to be a set distance from the earth electrode. There is usually a little window that allows the electrodes to be seen.