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[cleggy]

They should be sterilized after two if unmarried. 

[dbdb]

What is happening EMD, and linked to my previous thread about "our" politicians, is that the Government are at the moment carrying out a traditional British political, governmental objective of "Divide and Rule".

Thats exactly Tory policy -  'don't look at the 1% tax dodgers and bankers who caused the problem, look at the social security scroungers'.  They have cynically looked at their private polls and decided to highlight poor people on benefits.  They have also deliberately taken a sledgehammer to crack the small nut of benefit abusers with the intention of hitting a lot of genuine claimants.

It is interesting to see on this forum the genuine and moving posts from people on benefits, keep it up, it shames the kneejerk brigade.

[Entwood]

I'm not quite sure how you reconcile 1% tax dodgers and bankers causing the problem with the fact that social spending under the last government rose from 59.1 billion in 2000 to 110.9 billion in 2010

I'm really, really sure that the 1% tax dodgers and bankers didn't receive any of that money

But I'm happy to be proved wrong

[albitz]

The banking crisis brought the current economic crisis forward by 5 years or so,no more no less. Our current problems are rooted in criminal mismanagement of the U.K. finances by Gordon McRuin.

[TheBoy]

don't look at the 1% tax dodgers and bankers who caused the problem, look at the social security scroungers

Not really, though they were acting in a way that would harm the banks when things turned sour...   ...although they have become a convenient scapegoat to cover up the incompitences of some parts of the civil service.

The real reason that the UK is in such a bad position is the recklessness of the New Labour policies - punish manufacturers, encourage a service industry, and the real killer, recklessly massively increase borrowing during the good times, and not have a plan for when it was going to go Pete Tong (which it always was).


Now I'm just the stupid kid from the local comprehensive, but even I know that in the good times, you do what you can to have something for the rainy days.

[dbdb]

if you don't think the problem was caused by the banking collapse in Sept 2008 have a look at these

(http://timetric.com/index/public-finances-net-debt-psf/)

[the alarming man]

i don't doubt the last goverment did'nt help with the economic problems we are now experienceing BUT it was the failing of the lehman brothers bank that was the catalyst for the economic problems....nothing to do with new labours policies as lehman brothers is an american bank based in america

[Kevin Wood]

i don't doubt the last goverment did'nt help with the economic problems we are now experienceing BUT it was the failing of the lehman brothers bank that was the catalyst for the economic problems....nothing to do with new labours policies as lehman brothers is an american bank based in america

That brought things to a head, but, the way our economy was going it was inevitable sooner or later, IMHO. Had we had a more prudent government (now where have I heard that word before?) we would have ridden it out and been in reasonable shape now. :-(

[the alarming man]

i don't doubt the last goverment did'nt help with the economic problems we are now experienceing BUT it was the failing of the lehman brothers bank that was the catalyst for the economic problems....nothing to do with new labours policies as lehman brothers is an american bank based in america

That brought things to a head, but, the way our economy was going it was inevitable sooner or later, IMHO. Had we had a more prudent government (now where have I heard that word before?) we would have ridden it out and been in reasonable shape now. :-(

i think you will find that started it and then it went down like as house of cards...

[dbdb]

That brought things to a head, but, the way our economy was going it was inevitable sooner or later, IMHO. Had we had a more prudent government (now where have I heard that word before?) we would have ridden it out and been in reasonable shape now. :-(

But have a look at the second graph I put up, UK national debt as a pecentage of Gross Domestic Product was fine until the crisis hit in 2008 and had been fairly steady since 1975.

The real underlying cause is investment in production with no corresponding increase in demand because the distribtion of wealth has been to the rich and away from the 99%.  When wealth is distributed more evenly again demand will pick up and production will come back. Will be a long time coming under this governent though.

[TheBoy]

i don't doubt the last goverment did'nt help with the economic problems we are now experienceing BUT it was the failing of the lehman brothers bank that was the catalyst for the economic problems....nothing to do with new labours policies as lehman brothers is an american bank based in america

I don't think Lehmans was the catalyst on its own. It was going to happen, if it wasn't Lehmans, it would have been someone else.

I could see a crash coming in the UK long before Lehmans. I suspect most could. We were already in a dangerous position soon after the new millenium, where people were having to use credit to pay off debts, and the government were virtually promoting it (and recklessly doing it themselves). One of 2 things was going to happen - hyperinflation or an unavailability of credit. We were living beyond our means as individuals and as a country.

[albitz]

In the previous decade Brown had staggering amounts of money coming into the treasury,ironically mostly fuelled by the boom in the city. He not only blew the lot on worthless projects (but which bought labour votes),but he actually borrowed huge amounts of money as well.He was warned to keep reserves in the kitty for a rainy day but his response was that he had abolished boom and bust.The good times were never going to end.
When the rainy day came we were in a very weak and vulnerable position,and then it all collapsed like a house of cards.
He also personally created and hand picked the top brass for the FSA,which was supposed to have kept a close eye on and regulated as necessary,the financial sector.
After all that he promised the country that we would be he first major economy to recover. Again he couldnt have been more wrong.

[TheBoy]

The real underlying cause is investment in production with no corresponding increase in demand because the distribtion of wealth has been to the rich and away from the 99%.  When wealth is distributed more evenly again demand will pick up and production will come back. Will be a long time coming under this governent though.

Sadly, this idealism doesn't work in practice.  All the failed socialist states prove that.  Actually, this very thread about benefits proves that, to the detriment of the genuine needy.

[Kevin Wood]

The real underlying cause is investment in production with no corresponding increase in demand because the distribtion of wealth has been to the rich and away from the 99%.  When wealth is distributed more evenly again demand will pick up and production will come back. Will be a long time coming under this governent though.

Sadly, this idealism doesn't work in practice.  All the failed socialist states prove that.  Actually, this very thread about benefits proves that, to the detriment of the genuine needy.

Yep, it works about as well as hitting your manufacturing industry with ever more green taxes while China build cheap coal fired power stations.

[Kevin Wood]

The real underlying cause is investment in production with no corresponding increase in demand because the distribtion of wealth has been to the rich and away from the 99%.  When wealth is distributed more evenly again demand will pick up and production will come back. Will be a long time coming under this governent though.

Sadly, this idealism doesn't work in practice.  All the failed socialist states prove that.  Actually, this very thread about benefits proves that, to the detriment of the genuine needy.

Yep, it works about as well as hitting your manufacturing industry with ever more green taxes while China build cheap coal fired power stations.

I should clarify that. You have an ideal (or a strong motivation fuelled by brown paper envelopes  ) and you put on the blinkers and follow it to the exclusion of everything else. Always the road to disaster, whatever you are trying to run.