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[Marks DTM Calib]

How long before auto speed reduction devices are fitted to trains to overide the driver given the speed limit for a given piece of track and GPS etc.?

The modern signaling system does have it (including the UK), Spain has the potential to use it and Portugal do use it but I understand the Spanish dont enable it.

GPS is not used (its not reliable enough), the modern setup uses track side beacons for telemetry (e.g. GSMR)

[Marks DTM Calib]

The best way to see whn it derails is to watch the lower coach line just above the rails.

Note also how once the coach leaves the track, the loco is pulled over.

[chrisgixer]

So the heavier engine could have taken the bend? But the lighter carriages flew off.

[Marks DTM Calib]

So the heavier engine could have taken the bend? But the lighter carriages flew off.

Possibly, its clear that the locomotive made it around the radius yet the coaches came off only a short distance in.

The locos will be very heavy (probably around 100 tons) with weight pretty low down (traction motors being just above rail level). Compare it to a light weight coach

[Marks DTM Calib]

These are the trains for info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RENFE_Class_730#Hybrid_train_S130H_.2F_S730

with this being the Class 730 (the hydrib version of the 130).

Note the loco axle weight of max 18ton per axle, 4 axles on the power car and then only one on each coach interconnection, gives an idea of difference in weight.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Also note the power cars have both regenerative and resistive brakes plus pneumatic brakes everywhere.

Loco brakes are independent of the train brake setup so we can rule a failure out there with reasonable confidence

[Varche]

How long before auto speed reduction devices are fitted to trains to overide the driver given the speed limit for a given piece of track and GPS etc.?

The modern signaling system does have it (including the UK), Spain has the potential to use it and Portugal do use it but I understand the Spanish dont enable it.

GPS is not used (its not reliable enough), the modern setup uses track side beacons for telemetry (e.g. GSMR)

Mark. Is that ERTMS?

[Marks DTM Calib]

I am informed that ERTMS is not in use but ASFA is (similar ish to our TMPS).

This system can drop the brake when overspeed is detected but the info is that this is not enabled in Spain. (although this should only be a fail safe not the first line of defence)

[Lizzie_Zoom]

This is bad, very bad

However, whenever I see the results of such a crash today it only goes to remind me of how wonderful modern coaching stock is for it's design ability to survive such high speed crashes intact.  Even just 60 years ago the coaching stock in such a crash, if it could even reach the speeds of this train, would disintegrate, especially once it came into contact with track side structures.  Now, as horrific as it must have been for all involved, the coaches stayed intact and "the bodies" would have been thrown around internally, not externally as in past decades.  You then have to ask why wearing a seat belt is not compulsory in such trains, even if they were fitted that I do not believe they are in any of these high speed trains. You wonder why!  

[Rog]

It's ok, this would never happen if HS2 goes ahead 

[Varche]

It's ok, this would never happen if HS2 goes ahead 

No corners, it is only going a few miles from London to Birmingham.

[tunnie]

and as already highlighted, our trains auto-brake if speed is too fast for section of track 

[tunnie]

Actually if you look at all our serious train accidents, they have all been track related. Think there was one case of a driver running a red, then a HST ploughed through middle of it. But I think since then ATP is across everything? 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Actually if you look at all our serious train accidents, they have all been track related. Think there was one case of a driver running a red, then a HST ploughed through middle of it. But I think since then ATP is across everything? 

Oh there have been plenty of slightly lesser ones that are driver related!

Even a case where a freight train driver took his usual nap, he used to put the power handle into a certain position at a certain signal and get 5-10 mins sleep knowing the train would continue up the hill and over the top.

Trouble is he did it a signal to early and the freight train did not make it up the hill, it started to roll backwards straight into the front of another train.

But yes, the signaling system is vastly improved and will continue to get a LOT better.

[Varche]

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/164535-train-derailment-3.html

Some interesting comment and info from Whitenoiz for those interested in more background.

e.g. the second car in the train has a higher CoG than the first.