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[05omegav6]

It needs massive fundamental change, but there isn't a politician with the backbone to grasp that nettle.

I've said hundreds of times on this forum, it needs closing down. If the will is there, rebuild it again from the ground up. But the current setup has been looked at by successful business experts, and all have agreed, it cannot be fixed as it is

I would have to agree with you on this one

That may well be true, but the day we have to rely on insurance companies to look after our health will be the day before I emigrate. 

A noble sentiment, but at least if we went down the private/insurance route we ought to get what we pay for rather than paying for something which fundamentally doesn't work

And actually healthcare costs should fall due to competition

[Sir Tigger KC]

A noble sentiment, but at least if we went down the private/insurance route we ought to get what we pay for rather than paying for something which fundamentally doesn't work

And actually healthcare costs should fall due to competition

Just like they do in the US? 

[05omegav6]

I said should...

What is the per capita tax burden of the NHS? Will that same amount buy reasonable health insurance?

[wingman]

Quote from: Taxi Al on Today at 18:07:10


A noble sentiment, but at least if we went down the private/insurance route we ought to get what we pay for rather than paying for something which fundamentally doesn't work

And actually healthcare costs should fall due to competition

Just like they do in the US? 

Where 75% of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills not being able to be paid. My son in law has just been told he has to pay $11000 dollars for a minor operation on his knee of which he has to contribute $6000 despite having health insurance On the other hand SWMBO has to undergo exactly the same procedure in this country under the NHS completely free!!
So who wants a US system of insurance based healthcare now?

[Sir Tigger KC]

Where 75% of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills not being able to be paid. My son in law has just been told he has to pay $11000 dollars for a minor operation on his knee of which he has to contribute $6000 despite having health insurance On the other hand SWMBO has to undergo exactly the same procedure in this country under the NHS completely free!!
So who wants a US system of insurance based healthcare now?

Not at all, it would be a nightmare! 

My mate's neighbours in Houston, who are in their late 50's and are fit, non smoking, with no previous bad health conditions pay $3500 a month for both of them!! 

That's an all singing and dancing policy mind, but I bet there's still an excess to pay!   

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

There is a myth perpetuated by the left in this country that we only have two possible options for healthcare.
The NHS as it currently is (with a lot of additional funding), or the U.S. system.
Most people seem to accept this without question.
The fact is that there are many other options in between the two, as used by numerous countries all around the world.
The NHS is broken, much more broken than anyone in politics or the media will admit to, and it simply is not sustainable, or even particularily useful in its current form.
If it doesn't radically change in the near future, it will surely die.
My family have had the misfortune to have had numerous serious health issues and had to use the NHS a great deal in the last 10 years, and most of the treatment has varied between mediocre and absolutely appalling.
A while back we relented and went private (after yet another near death experience due to sheer incompetence) and the difference was nothing short of staggering.

[Varche]

There is a myth perpetuated by the left in this country that we only have two possible options for healthcare.
The NHS as it currently is (with a lot of additional funding), or the U.S. system.
Most people seem to accept this without question.
The fact is that there are many other options in between the two, as used by numerous countries all around the world.
The NHS is broken, much more broken than anyone in politics or the media will admit to, and it simply is not sustainable, or even particularily useful in its current form.
If it doesn't radically change in the near future, it will surely die.
My family have had the misfortune to have had numerous serious health issues and had to use the NHS a great deal in the last 10 years, and most of the treatment has varied between mediocre and absolutely appalling.
A while back we relented and went private (after yet another near death experience due to sheer incompetence) and the difference was nothing short of staggering.

I have two family member experiences of private. First my dad who when faced with a second hernia op on the other side opted for private. It was only a slightly better experience. The other was a brother in law. Acute Appendicitus. Went private with his all singing dancing policy . Two days later he was doubled up on the floor in the bathroom in agony. Went to A and E and the same specialist now on NHS time opened him up and cleaned out the now septic mess he had left in there

[05omegav6]

Quote from: Taxi Al on Today at 18:07:10


A noble sentiment, but at least if we went down the private/insurance route we ought to get what we pay for rather than paying for something which fundamentally doesn't work

And actually healthcare costs should fall due to competition

Just like they do in the US? 

Where 75% of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills not being able to be paid. My son in law has just been told he has to pay $11000 dollars for a minor operation on his knee of which he has to contribute $6000 despite having health insurance On the other hand SWMBO has to undergo exactly the same procedure in this country under the NHS completely free!!
So who wants a US system of insurance based healthcare now?

That suggests simply that he doesn't have the correct level of cover...

A bit like having a £500 excess on a £600 car

Comparing the US with the UK doesn't really work due to the way the States are arranged.

The NHS is in a state, has been for years, decades probably, private is an alternative that's all. It certainly wouldn't fix the NHS...

[05omegav6]

To answer my earlier question...
http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/key-statistics-on-the-nhs

£1913 per capita in 2012-2013...

A fully comprehensive Bupa policy with 0 excess would cost me about £140 per month as it stands. Sure prescription costs would be above that, but I have to pay for them anyway...

[wingman]

Quote from: Taxi Al on Today at 18:07:10


A noble sentiment, but at least if we went down the private/insurance route we ought to get what we pay for rather than paying for something which fundamentally doesn't work

And actually healthcare costs should fall due to competition

Just like they do in the US? 

Where 75% of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills not being able to be paid. My son in law has just been told he has to pay $11000 dollars for a minor operation on his knee of which he has to contribute $6000 despite having health insurance On the other hand SWMBO has to undergo exactly the same procedure in this country under the NHS completely free!!
So who wants a US system of insurance based healthcare now?

That suggests simply that he doesn't have the correct level of cover...

A bit like having a £500 excess on a £600 car

Comparing the US with the UK doesn't really work due to the way the States are arranged.

The NHS is in a state, has been for years, decades probably, private is an alternative that's all. It certainly wouldn't fix the NHS...

Sorry Al but the reason he doesn't have the level of cover you are suggesting he should have is that he (and many others like him in the US) just cannot afford the premiums that insurance companies charge. I should add that he is in normally good health and in a job as a chef which pays an average wage. Thus he and my daughter have the choice of paying exorbitant health insurance premiums, defaulting on a mortgage, starving or sending their two school age kids out on the streets.

I have also been in hospital recently and happened to be treated under the NHS in a private hospital which is adjacent to our NHS one. This was because the NHS had to cancel routine ops because of the current underfunding and A&E problems (see press today - 19,471 ops cancelled for non clinical reasons during Oct, Nov and Dec, s 23% increase since last year). This private hospital has about 30 rooms of which only 7 were occupied, 5 by NHS patients and only two presumably private patients. The reason - the outrageously high premiums charged by medical insurers which people can just not afford any more. This private establishment would speedily go bust were it not for the fact that the NHS has had to use it because of bed shortages etc.

God help us all if we lose our NHS system which despite all the protestation from Cameron and his cronies is exactly what they want.

[TheBoy]

God help us all if we lose our NHS system which despite all the protestation from Cameron and his cronies is exactly what they want.

Its what they all want in honesty. They are (all) hopefully intelligent enough to realise the maths do not work.

I'm all for a NHS style system. But the one we have is too inefficient, and for the last 20yrs has been declared by every troubleshooter brought in as irreparably broken.

[TheBoy]

And as commented earlier, charging for quack visits and A&E visits will reduce the burdens, stopping the stupid tarts taking little Johnny to the quacks because he has a minor cold.

[EMD]

Well the sooner we have that vote on the EU and vote to get out of it , that will be a few billion a year to pay off the debt 

[TheBoy]

Well the sooner we have that vote on the EU and vote to get out of it , that will be a few billion a year to pay off the debt 

How much, Mr EMD? How much do you think our average worker pays for the EU?  How much do you think being in the EU brings into the UK economy?


For the economy to flourish in our global world, you have to export more than you import. Exporting is bloody hard if you build up borders.

[EMD]

Well the sooner we have that vote on the EU and vote to get out of it , that will be a few billion a year to pay off the debt 

How much, Mr EMD? How much do you think our average worker pays for the EU?  How much do you think being in the EU brings into the UK economy?


For the economy to flourish in our global world, you have to export more than you import. Exporting is bloody hard if you build up borders.

They need us more than we need them or at least thats what i hear  Trade wouldnt suffer it would be just the same