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[05omegav6]

I could have sworn Caterham had produced one as well, but I couldn't find that .. but you know, Caterham, Westfield .. that's like tomato tomato

Nope. You want one of theses.

One electric catering van

[Diamond Black Geezer]

I always thought "being green" was just another way of saying "getting to show everyone you have more money than them while feeling smug about it" (except Matt's milk float, obviously, because he's bigger and harder than me  ) - as you mentioned about celebs with their Priapisms and people who build that kind of pretentious "eco home"..

And when you look at recycling you can see some shocking things; car battery recycling where the batteries are sent to a third world country to be smashed apart by children with hammers so the lead can be rescued thus exposing them to the risk of chemical burns, poisoning the ground and ultimately them with lead, or electronic recycling that is sent to China so tiny quantities of gold can be extracted while the rest turns the water courses black with toxic chemicals.. meanwhile we (who sent it all there) get to feel pleased with ourselves for "saving the planet"..

Now an electric Caterham with worm drive speedo and nothing else, that would work! Every amp would be used efficiently.

This close enough for you? http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/289018/electric_westfield_iracer_performance_figures.html

Dammit I said Caterham!!! Haha, no, but seriously, exactly that. Good find, and Lotus are playing with it, too. Rolls Royce were, but not sure if they're actually going ahead with it or not. Personally I think it works very well on a luxury car, where smoothness and lack of vibration are paramount.

I could have sworn Caterham had produced one as well, but I couldn't find that .. but you know, Caterham, Westfield .. that's like tomato tomato

Ouch, don't let a Caterham owner hear you say that! They'll choke on their Red Bull! 

Yes indeedy, again, this satisfaction we all get from shipping an AA battery all the way to China in order for someone to recover 1.3 microns of Ploponium or whatever, it's all maladjusted. There's other forms of recycling than the traditional 'pulp it and use it as filler in resin/plastic' perception. Resin which, incidentally, produces very noxious chemicals in its manufacture. I mean if you use a carrier bag twice, that's literally doubled it's initial expected design lifespan. If you turn the old kitchen table into a workbench for the garage for the next 20 years, that's recycling. If you nab an old box, wax it up and use it as a coffee table (as I'm doing soon) that's recycling. 

[zirk]

Nice idea, cant see it working in practice, well not for a public highway, around here the local authorities cant even sort out holes in tarmac, let alone fixing solar panel repairs, especially if someone decides 'some of them would look good on my roof'

As for personal driveways, a good possibility, why not solar heating within your drive, certainly make the plumbing a lot easier. 

[aaronjb]

[sensible stuff snipped] If you nab an old box, wax it up and use it as a coffee table (as I'm doing soon) that's recycling. 

I think if you speak trendy that's actually "upcycling" and one step away from turning into Kirstie Alsopp 

But yes, a lot more environmentally friendly than shipping that AA battery to China, as you say.  Freecycle is great for giving unwanted things a second (or third, or fourth..) lease of life too, if you can bear dealing with the great unwashed - which is partly why a bunch of stuff got taken to the recycling bins at the tip by me last weekend! Although if I hadn't done that I would have missed the lady in the Audi who threw her car keys into the metal recycling bin and then asked the tip guys if they wouldn't mind pulling it all out (it's a 15' tall concrete bunker) to find them for her..

[Kevin Wood]

[sensible stuff snipped] If you nab an old box, wax it up and use it as a coffee table (as I'm doing soon) that's recycling. 

Actually, a friend of mine took so long to build a kit car that the chassis ended up used as a coffee table in his living room. Not sure if he's built it to this day. Sort of recycling.

Oh, hello, Aaron!

[Diamond Black Geezer]

[sensible stuff snipped] If you nab an old box, wax it up and use it as a coffee table (as I'm doing soon) that's recycling. 

I think if you speak trendy that's actually "upcycling" and one step away from turning into Kirstie Alsopp 

But yes, a lot more environmentally friendly than shipping that AA battery to China, as you say.  Freecycle is great for giving unwanted things a second (or third, or fourth..) lease of life too, if you can bear dealing with the great unwashed - which is partly why a bunch of stuff got taken to the recycling bins at the tip by me last weekend! Although if I hadn't done that I would have missed the lady in the Audi who threw her car keys into the metal recycling bin and then asked the tip guys if they wouldn't mind pulling it all out (it's a 15' tall concrete bunker) to find them for her..

haha! 

Ugh, please don't tell me you used the word 'upcycling' and associated me with it!  this is one of them things people have been doing for years, just reusing, Womble-style. Like I mention about using the old table in the garage, but it's a mentality that seems to be dying out. Again, just reusing has now become, as you say, the 'upcycling' trend. Great, but a trend it is, like beards and vintage. Found an old 1960s solid wood table in the same skip (ironically this looks to have been used in the shed, as a workbench!) I'll replace the top, sand back all the peeling varnish, and it'll be good as new soon. The estate agents are getting refurbished up the road and there's a lovely wide bit of timber, probably part of the old window ledge, I'll see if I can get that one evening,as the able top 

[Diamond Black Geezer]

[sensible stuff snipped] If you nab an old box, wax it up and use it as a coffee table (as I'm doing soon) that's recycling. 

Actually, a friend of mine took so long to build a kit car that the chassis ended up used as a coffee table in his living room. Not sure if he's built it to this day. Sort of recycling.

Oh, hello, Aaron!

 

[Gaffers]

I always thought "being green" was just another way of saying "getting to show everyone you have more money than them while feeling smug about it" (except Matt's milk float, obviously, because he's bigger and harder than me  ) - as you mentioned about celebs with their Priapisms and people who build that kind of pretentious "eco home"..

And when you look at recycling you can see some shocking things; car battery recycling where the batteries are sent to a third world country to be smashed apart by children with hammers so the lead can be rescued thus exposing them to the risk of chemical burns, poisoning the ground and ultimately them with lead, or electronic recycling that is sent to China so tiny quantities of gold can be extracted while the rest turns the water courses black with toxic chemicals.. meanwhile we (who sent it all there) get to feel pleased with ourselves for "saving the planet"..

My decision to get the Leaf was actually financial.  It pretty much pays for itself and the guaranteed buy back price on the baloon deal pockets me about £2k (more if the market value is better)  the fact it uses a battery and electric motors to move was secondary.  True, I would not have considered it had I not tested the Tesla Model S but we were in the market for a new car and, after doing the sums, this one swayed us.

It's our daily runabout as 95% of my trips are within the 80 mile real-life round trip range.  If going in to London I can charge and park on the street for 4 hours free and pay £10 a year for the congestion charge.  When I calculated everything I reckon I actually save money despite the finance.

All that said I heard somewhere that it takes more energy to build a car than it will use in it's lifetime which if true means it is more environmentally friendly to keep an old car running.

You will note the other car on my drive is a 97 XJR6.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

I always thought "being green" was just another way of saying "getting to show everyone you have more money than them while feeling smug about it" (except Matt's milk float, obviously, because he's bigger and harder than me  ) - as you mentioned about celebs with their Priapisms and people who build that kind of pretentious "eco home"..

And when you look at recycling you can see some shocking things; car battery recycling where the batteries are sent to a third world country to be smashed apart by children with hammers so the lead can be rescued thus exposing them to the risk of chemical burns, poisoning the ground and ultimately them with lead, or electronic recycling that is sent to China so tiny quantities of gold can be extracted while the rest turns the water courses black with toxic chemicals.. meanwhile we (who sent it all there) get to feel pleased with ourselves for "saving the planet"..

My decision to get the Leaf was actually financial.  It pretty much pays for itself and the guaranteed buy back price on the baloon deal pockets me about £2k (more if the market value is better)  the fact it uses a battery and electric motors to move was secondary.  True, I would not have considered it had I not tested the Tesla Model S but we were in the market for a new car and, after doing the sums, this one swayed us.

It's our daily runabout as 95% of my trips are within the 80 mile real-life round trip range.  If going in to London I can charge and park on the street for 4 hours free and pay £10 a year for the congestion charge.  When I calculated everything I reckon I actually save money despite the finance.

All that said I heard somewhere that it takes more energy to build a car than it will use in it's lifetime which if true means it is more environmentally friendly to keep an old car running.

You will note the other car on my drive is a 97 XJR6.

Amen to that! Electric vehicles of course have a place - and the 'local congestion' element is key. If every vehicle in a large city is zero-tailpipe emmission, then that's improving the roads significantly, not to mention the overall air quality.
Quite like the Leaf, actually.  As you say, if you use it within the limits of it, as you do, then there is no issue.

[Gaffers]

As a MAMIL keen cyclist air quality is an obvious plus point for me.

As for range, I have taken my Leaf as far as Tenby and Sheffield using the rapid chargers in the service stations.

[aaronjb]

[sensible stuff snipped] If you nab an old box, wax it up and use it as a coffee table (as I'm doing soon) that's recycling. 

Actually, a friend of mine took so long to build a kit car that the chassis ended up used as a coffee table in his living room. Not sure if he's built it to this day. Sort of recycling.

Oh, hello, Aaron!

Ooh, you bitch  Shame it's true, though, eh! One day I'll find some motivation.. there's internet in the garage now (Cat5e, no less) so.. yeah, sofa calling 

Ugh, please don't tell me you used the word 'upcycling' and associated me with it! 

  Only because I knew it would be taken in the way it was meant (Plus I do like to think about Kirstie Alsopp .. I have a problem, I know.)

My decision to get the Leaf was actually financial.  It pretty much pays for itself and the guaranteed buy back price on the baloon deal pockets me about £2k (more if the market value is better)  the fact it uses a battery and electric motors to move was secondary.

Indeed, I know from previous conversations that your choice was well researched and not particularly about saving the planet but rather what was the best choice for you personally  Which, of course, is what sets you apart from celebrities who buy a Prius so they can show everyone how wonderfully environmentally responsible they are

[Diamond Black Geezer]

  All good points made, this forum at its best 

[moggy]

How about we stop burning coal, and burn pubic hair instead.Lets face it,there's lots of it,its easily accessible,and we don't really need it. .

[Merlindriver]

I always thought "being green" was just another way of saying "getting to show everyone you have more money than them while feeling smug about it" (except Matt's milk float, obviously, because he's bigger and harder than me  ) - as you mentioned about celebs with their Priapisms and people who build that kind of pretentious "eco home"..

And when you look at recycling you can see some shocking things; car battery recycling where the batteries are sent to a third world country to be smashed apart by children with hammers so the lead can be rescued thus exposing them to the risk of chemical burns, poisoning the ground and ultimately them with lead, or electronic recycling that is sent to China so tiny quantities of gold can be extracted while the rest turns the water courses black with toxic chemicals.. meanwhile we (who sent it all there) get to feel pleased with ourselves for "saving the planet"..

My decision to get the Leaf was actually financial.  It pretty much pays for itself and the guaranteed buy back price on the baloon deal pockets me about £2k (more if the market value is better)  the fact it uses a battery and electric motors to move was secondary.  True, I would not have considered it had I not tested the Tesla Model S but we were in the market for a new car and, after doing the sums, this one swayed us.

It's our daily runabout as 95% of my trips are within the 80 mile real-life round trip range.  If going in to London I can charge and park on the street for 4 hours free and pay £10 a year for the congestion charge.  When I calculated everything I reckon I actually save money despite the finance.

All that said I heard somewhere that it takes more energy to build a car than it will use in it's lifetime which if true means it is more environmentally friendly to keep an old car running.

You will note the other car on my drive is a 97 XJR6.

Me too - except my other vehicles are a '79 3litre TVR and a couple of 800cc motorbikes. I think the Leaf is a great little car - actually it's not so little and the range does me just fine for my 20 mile round trip to work. Omega 3.2 £25 a week in petrol, Leaf £3 in electricity. Only long run I ever do is up the M6 and the Ecotricity 30 min chargers are free.

[Rods2]

One of the problems with solar panels is that they use large amounts of energy to make them, so their EROEI is low and only happens towards the end of their practical life. This can be improved by using renewable energy to make the panels, but that ups the price.

As for CO2 emissions a degree or two is neither here nor there, it will not profoundly change the Northern hemisphere and end our civilization, but a 12degC drop is a life changer and overdue.

A major problem with the drive for renewables is the cost which is driving high energy using industries to the US with their cheap gas prices. One of the reasons for the 2009 depression was energy prices, now fracking is providing cheap oil and gas, the US economy is growing well. The UK is doing okay, while the rest of the EU stagnates under the triple whammy of the Euro, high energy prices and anti-industry regulation.

However, I'm all for try new ideas as this is what drives civilization and society forward. Without it, we would still be living in caves, wearing bear skins, riding horses and using leeches when ill.