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[Bojan]

Yes, in a small light car. Try to make a barge the size and weight of an Omega work with good comfort, performance and handling and it all falls apart unless you go RWD. If you can throw out some of the requirements, then maybe it'll work. Witness that Cadillac went FWD some time ago. Great if you want it to make a water bed seem responsive.

But, if you want to combine a generous size of car with a good amount of poke, comfortable ride and yet maintain pleasant handling and a decent level of grip, it has to be RWD. There are, however, enough drivers these days that won't notice the compromises you are making, that you can get away with it.

In that era (late 80's and trough 90's) many have gone from RWD to FWD. They called it 'progress'. Cadillac is one of few that came back. First with catera, followed by CTS, and currently most of their range is RWD. Several years ago, Alfa was considering switching back to RWD for Alfa 166, but nothing happened.

FWD is for small and medium size cars.
In big cars, it just doesn't right, IMO. Although, for normal driving, one will not notice the difference.

[citroenguy]

FWD can't be that bad when it works so well, just look at the latest hot hatches tearing up the nurburgring. And it makes for easier/safer handling, there are less bits to go wrong as well as better traction on slippery surfaces.
Citroen have been using it since 1934.. and is still using it today. The 1934 Citroen Traction Avant could out handle most saloon cars of the 30/40s an early 50s

Yes, in a small light car. Try to make a barge the size and weight of an Omega work with good comfort, performance and handling and it all falls apart unless you go RWD. If you can throw out some of the requirements, then maybe it'll work. Witness that Cadillac went FWD some time ago. Great if you want it to make a water bed seem responsive.

But, if you want to combine a generous size of car with a good amount of poke, comfortable ride and yet maintain pleasant handling and a decent level of grip, it has to be RWD. There are, however, enough drivers these days that won't notice the compromises you are making, that you can get away with it.

I agree but there is an exception, big Citroens. The CX, XM and C6 all have decent poke, great comfort and good handling for their size. AWD is the ultimate for grip and performance though.

[Doctor Gollum]

Fitting AWD to a FWD platform is an admission of failure hidden behind marketing wank.

Basically saying, " Hey, this trolley chassis is okay. But utter shite with 300bhp running through it, so we had to make it AWD just to keep it on the road the front tyre wear acceptable."

On the plus side, done well, you end up with a very capable car The Insignia 4x4 being a case in point

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Also having switched from RWD to FWD for my commute, I don't notice it. At what point do you or can you safely push the car to the point of RWD benefits, on a busy morning commute?

Apart from lighting the fronts up a couple of times, I've not noticed loss of RWD. Car park is a tad tight at work, thought may have noticed it here with smaller FWD turning circles, but it's not been an issue.

Answered your own question... asking steering wheels to drive at the same time is dynamically insane.

It is simply done for packaging purposes and enables manufacturers to save billions by using the same drivetrain in every model they see fit to foist upon us. Something the manufacturer of your styling gimmick know only too well

FWD can't be that bad when it works so well, just look at the latest hot hatches tearing up the nurburgring. And it makes for easier/safer handling, there are less bits to go wrong as well as better traction on slippery surfaces.
Citroen have been using it since 1934.. and is still using it today. The 1934 Citroen Traction Avant could out handle most saloon cars of the 30/40s an early 50s

Depends how you define handling. Its easier and safer for people who don't take the art of driving too seriously, and also much cheaper to manufacture.
There must be a reason though, why there has never been a purpose designed & built FWD competition car, as far as Im aware.
If FWD handling characteristics were ultimately better than RWD, then wouldn't F1 cars be FWD ? 

[citroenguy]

Also having switched from RWD to FWD for my commute, I don't notice it. At what point do you or can you safely push the car to the point of RWD benefits, on a busy morning commute?

Apart from lighting the fronts up a couple of times, I've not noticed loss of RWD. Car park is a tad tight at work, thought may have noticed it here with smaller FWD turning circles, but it's not been an issue.

Answered your own question... asking steering wheels to drive at the same time is dynamically insane.

It is simply done for packaging purposes and enables manufacturers to save billions by using the same drivetrain in every model they see fit to foist upon us. Something the manufacturer of your styling gimmick know only too well

FWD can't be that bad when it works so well, just look at the latest hot hatches tearing up the nurburgring. And it makes for easier/safer handling, there are less bits to go wrong as well as better traction on slippery surfaces.
Citroen have been using it since 1934.. and is still using it today. The 1934 Citroen Traction Avant could out handle most saloon cars of the 30/40s an early 50s

Depends how you define handling. Its easier and safer for people who don't take the art of driving too seriously, and also much cheaper to manufacture.
There must be a reason though, why there has never been a purpose designed & built FWD competition car, as far as Im aware.
If FWD handling characteristics were ultimately better than RWD, then wouldn't F1 cars be FWD ? 

This: http://www.topgear.com/car-news/motorsport/nissan%E2%80%99s-1250bhp-le-mans-racer-explained

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Your right. There is indeed one - and its probably the only one.
Reading the article, it seems it was decided to use FWD in order to allow the team to exploit the regulations on aerodynamics, which they presumably thought would more than outweigh the disadvantages of FWD. 

[TheBoy]

Not a classic, but I think the MFL was the pinnacle of Vx/Opel's achievements.

As I seem to be getting a lot of grief over that comment, particularly from someone who thinks a non descript VW shitbox is best thing ever made...


...can anybody suggest a Vx/Opel car that is better than the MFL Omega?  As all I can see they did after was the penny pinched FL, the rather poor Vectra-C/Signum, Insignia.... ?

[tunnie]

Not a classic, but I think the MFL was the pinnacle of Vx/Opel's achievements.

As I seem to be getting a lot of grief over that comment, particularly from someone who thinks a non descript VW shitbox is best thing ever made...


...can anybody suggest a Vx/Opel car that is better than the MFL Omega?  As all I can see they did after was the penny pinched FL, the rather poor Vectra-C/Signum, Insignia.... ?

Never said VW CC was best thing ever made? At what point have I ever stated anything similar? 

You seem to be picking up on each comment like what I said about cruise, about it being better? Just time to face facts and they need replacing, as you know it's a struggle to find anything. I've done the best I can with my budget and requirements. I can't afford an XJ new shape or XF Sport Back or any new decent RWD saloon.

[TheBoy]

Not a classic, but I think the MFL was the pinnacle of Vx/Opel's achievements.

As I seem to be getting a lot of grief over that comment, particularly from someone who thinks a non descript VW shitbox is best thing ever made...


...can anybody suggest a Vx/Opel car that is better than the MFL Omega?  As all I can see they did after was the penny pinched FL, the rather poor Vectra-C/Signum, Insignia.... ?

Never said VW CC was best thing ever made? At what point have I ever stated anything similar? 

You seem to be picking up on each comment like what I said about cruise, about it being better? Just time to face facts and they need replacing, as you know it's a struggle to find anything. I've done the best I can with my budget and requirements. I can't afford an XJ new shape or XF Sport Back or any new decent RWD saloon.

Christ, we're a bit sensitive today, aren't we Mr Tunnie.  Its me FFS .  And if you read what I said about Omega cruise, I was agreeing with you (well, saying Omega cruise was too cumbersome). Blimey.


Anyway, back to my original question, open to all, name a Opel/Vx that's an improvement on the Omega MFL.  There must be an improvement, but everybody was implying its just "TB seems to think MFL is the Pinnacle of Vx/Opel"...

[tunnie]

Not a classic, but I think the MFL was the pinnacle of Vx/Opel's achievements.

As I seem to be getting a lot of grief over that comment, particularly from someone who thinks a non descript VW shitbox is best thing ever made...


...can anybody suggest a Vx/Opel car that is better than the MFL Omega?  As all I can see they did after was the penny pinched FL, the rather poor Vectra-C/Signum, Insignia.... ?

Never said VW CC was best thing ever made? At what point have I ever stated anything similar? 

You seem to be picking up on each comment like what I said about cruise, about it being better? Just time to face facts and they need replacing, as you know it's a struggle to find anything. I've done the best I can with my budget and requirements. I can't afford an XJ new shape or XF Sport Back or any new decent RWD saloon.

Christ, we're a bit sensitive today, aren't we Mr Tunnie.  Its me FFS .  And if you read what I said about Omega cruise, I was agreeing with you (well, saying Omega cruise was too cumbersome). Blimey.


Anyway, back to my original question, open to all, name a Opel/Vx that's an improvement on the Omega MFL.  There must be an improvement, but everybody was implying its just "TB seems to think MFL is the Pinnacle of Vx/Opel"...

Thought you were being sarcastic   

To the question, I always thought the Senator should have been developed further and not killed off. Straight 6 engine was a peach, always preferred it to the V. But the best Vauxhall? Has to be the Monaro.

[TheBoy]

But the best Vauxhall? Has to be the Monaro.

I was specially referring to Vx/Opel designed stuff, fully aware the wider GM do some good cars...

But even including Vx badged Holdens, you're still wrong, its the VXR8. Obviously. 4 doors. Better spec, whats not to like...  ...except even a good, 6yr old one will cost £20k

[tunnie]

Interior of the Monaro is better, seats are better too. Looks nicer too, just pity of the tiny boot.

[TheBoy]

Interior of the Monaro is better, seats are better too. Looks nicer too, just pity of the tiny boot.

I reckon the VXR8 is the better place to sit.  Looks are in the eye of the beholder. Granted, the modern VXR8's are a bit obvious, but then the Monaro CV8 is too far the other way. A car that loud shouldn't look that dull.

[ted_one]

I'll let you know wether the Monaro is better than the R8.....soon

[Doctor Gollum]

Interior of the Monaro is better, seats are better too. Looks nicer too, just pity of the tiny boot.

Not better, different.