Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[jimbobmccoy]

What if someone was on holiday for two weeks, starting the day before the NiP was delivered, would they be immune because they hadn't been 'served'?

No. The nip is deemed "served" when it drops through the letter box at the address held by DVLA for the RK. Doesn't matter if you are in, out or shaking it all about.
[/quote]

So the nip is deemed served when it drops through the letterbox.
Example 1 - nip drops trough the letterbox on day 13, while i, the rk, is on holiday. 10 days later I arrive home, and find it, but decide, sod this, I'll say it didn't arrive till day 17, save myself the fine and points. I ask the postie, who is a friend, when did you deliver the nip, to which he replies, no idea mate, all just letters to me! At this point police say, well we issued it in time, to which you argue, yes, but it wasntnserved on me, prove otherwise.

Example 2 - nip drops through letterbox on day 7. Dog eats it while rk is at work, they never see it, claim it was never served, tell police to prove otherwise.

Example 3 - nip drops through letterbox on day 10, rk doesn't receive it as he's been kicked out for a few weeks and the missus doesn't pass it on, there's a cross over between him registering new address with dvla, and nip being sent out, so he argues I wasn't served, he then bounces around addresses for a few months and evades penalty as he can't be served.

You can argue all you like and quote all you like, but courts work on the general premise of what is reasonable, within statuettes and guidelines, and given the manner in which the nip is served, all the police have to do is show that they served the nip in a reasonable manner within the time frame, beyond that it is outbid their control, which echoes whatnothernpostersnhave said, and if you actually took it to a court, what would actually happen.

Finally, your last point counters your own arguments. You state that the nip is deemed served when it drops through the letterbox, regardless of anything else,, which means all the police need to do is prove they issued it within 12 days of the offence and that's sufficient, or would be to a court, which is exactly what I initially said.
It's easy to cherry pick certain sections of acts and price them together to make what seems a legitimate argument, but the real world is a bit different, as are actual courts.

I fear this could go on, so for me, I'm done - I don't fancy banging my head against a brick wall on a Saturday night.

As for you STEMO, I can't help but feel all this was a clever ploy to get some quiet time with big winston now half term is approaching and the prospect of time with the other half looms, you needn't worry, I hear long dog walks, and pegging will offer a similar experience 

(As an aside,  hit a kid at 30 mph, and thenare 4 times more likely to survive than at 40mph. Thats a big difference, and one you'd care about if you had kids, but we all know that 30-40 mph doesn't seem a whole lot quicker. 20 zones around schools are also there for a reason, and are normally ignored. Imagine you get the call to say your 8 year old niece, nephew, grandkid, child had been killed by someone doing 40 in a 20, who then tried to argue technicalities to get off Scott free),

[LC0112G]

So the nip is deemed served when it drops through the letterbox.
Example 1 - nip drops trough the letterbox on day 13, while i, the rk, is on holiday. 10 days later I arrive home, and find it, but decide, sod this, I'll say it didn't arrive till day 17, save myself the fine and points. I ask the postie, who is a friend, when did you deliver the nip, to which he replies, no idea mate, all just letters to me! At this point police say, well we issued it in time, to which you argue, yes, but it wasntnserved on me, prove otherwise.

The NIP will be deemed served unless YOU can prove it was late. The police only have to show that you should have received in in time  - i.e. they posted it on/before day 12. In the circumstances you describe at best the you'll get done for speeding, at worst you'll go to jail for perjury or perverting the course of justice.

Example 2 - nip drops through letterbox on day 7. Dog eats it while rk is at work, they never see it, claim it was never served, tell police to prove otherwise.

Nope - again the NIP is presumed served. You must prove it wasn't.

Example 3 - nip drops through letterbox on day 10, rk doesn't receive it as he's been kicked out for a few weeks and the missus doesn't pass it on, there's a cross over between him registering new address with dvla, and nip being sent out, so he argues I wasn't served, he then bounces around addresses for a few months and evades penalty as he can't be served.

The NIP is legally served if it lands on the doormat on day 10 at the address held on file at DVLA. You must reply within 28 days. If you don't then you may guilty of an offence under S172 of the RTA. Your (likely very difficult!) defence would lie under Sub Section 7(b) where it says you must reply as soon as reasonably practical. You would have to convince the court that you didn't and couldn't know about the S172. You should also note that the penalty for S172 is usually much higher than for the associated speeding (roughly double the points and double the fine), so deliberately messing about like this to try and avoid a speeding conviction is unwise.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/172

(7) A requirement under subsection (2) may be made by written notice served by post; and where it is so made—
(a) it shall have effect as a requirement to give the information within the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice is served, and
(b) the person on whom the notice is served shall not be guilty of an offence under this section if he shows either that he gave the information as soon as reasonably practicable after the end of that period or that it has not been reasonably practicable for him to give it.

You can argue all you like and quote all you like, but courts work on the general premise of what is reasonable, within statuettes and guidelines, and given the manner in which the nip is served, all the police have to do is show that they served the nip in a reasonable manner within the time frame, beyond that it is outbid their control, which echoes whatnothernpostersnhave said, and if you actually took it to a court, what would actually happen.

Nope. Read the High Court appeal. http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2009/2924.html .This is binding on lower courts. If presented properly, the CPS will drop the case before court because they know they are on a loser.

Finally, your last point counters your own arguments. You state that the nip is deemed served when it drops through the letterbox, regardless of anything else,, which means all the police need to do is prove they issued it within 12 days of the offence and that's sufficient, or would be to a court, which is exactly what I initially said.
It's easy to cherry pick certain sections of acts and price them together to make what seems a legitimate argument, but the real world is a bit different, as are actual courts.

I never said "regardless of anything else". I said it was a rebuttal position. It's deemed served unless you can prove is wasn't. The High Court case shows this to be true.

I fear this could go on, so for me, I'm done - I don't fancy banging my head against a brick wall on a Saturday night.

Good best you stop talking rubbish without any legal backing in case someone believes you. I have given you chapter and verse for all the applicable laws and judgments.

[biggriffin]

I love these, everybody thinks they can get away with it or beat the law, by using various, difference, and pub talk, and that includes ME,
I have tried, and failed, came close to perverting course of justice, have tried the failed postman, the well it got lost, even not signing for it. They all failed. The only people/way to win is with money, you will need a Qc who specializes in motoring law, or employ the solicitor known as Mr loophole favoured by footballers and TV types. Us mere citizens can try, but you wont beat the system.
 You can trawl the internet, you can use piepoo, but without money and proper council, you ain't gonna win.

[STEMO]

I love these, everybody thinks they can get away with it or beat the law, by using various, difference, and pub talk, and that includes ME,
I have tried, and failed, came close to perverting course of justice, have tried the failed postman, the well it got lost, even not signing for it. They all failed. The only people/way to win is with money, you will need a Qc who specializes in motoring law, or employ the solicitor known as Mr loophole favoured by footballers and TV types. Us mere citizens can try, but you wont beat the system.
 You can trawl the internet, you can use piepoo, but without money and proper council, you ain't gonna win.

Pie poo? I don't like the sound of that!