Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Bojan]

I have noticed in several threads that there is a disscusion about OEM parts vs replacement parts made by manufacturers who made the OEM part (i.e. bosch/siemens for crank sensor or coil pack).

There is an argument that buyer (in this case GM) prevents part manufacturer to make and sell parts as their own.
Now, I'm sure that this is true for new, current cars.
However, I'm under impression that this 'ban' doens't last forever.
I'm quite sure that, after certain period of time from start of production run, manufacturer is allowed to sell this parts as their own.

What do you think?

If my theory is correct, that would mean that replacement parts made by factories that were OEM supplier should be as same quality as OEM.

I dont like that original supplier parts are put in the same bin as some cheap ebay patterns.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

I can say that ...

BERU are a known, acceptable trusted maker of HT leads. They made Vauxhall/Opel's original
Bosch - I beleive made the original Coil Packs. again, appear to be known and trusted.
...but...
Lemforder - makers of the original wishbones. Apparently quality has nose-dived. This may have been a 'bad batch'. I'm not sure what the final word on this was.

I do like your point - how come 'aftermarket' means 'anything non-GM', even though, as you rightly say, GM don't make much, like any car maker; they get other people to make them, and assemble them.
This has been asked once before, and there is the suggestion that what is sent to the Factories/Dealerships is top quality, whereas the suppliers don't have the same obligations to their own brand stuff. I'm not saying this is true, only repeating what's been said. 

If you are specifically referring to crank sensors, then genuine GM (well... Siemens/Bosch) is the proven way to go, however, if I saw a Siemens CS, with the GM rubbed off, I'd have no issue giving it a go. 



Of course then there's some items which aren't in any way OEM, but are knwon to be decent. ATP for instance. Cheap, and doing fine so far on my old lady, 2 years and counting.

[Shackeng]

Oil filters, since I change oil & filters much more frequently than required by service schedules, I am quite happy to use pattern filters, I do use GM branded oil however, although this is also because it is cheap on TC, and I would happily use other oils, again, swift turnover helps with choice.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Yep, happily add Oil to that list. 

In part because it's actually the cheapest I can get. But, definitely you know you're getting the best, too.


I used GM oil filters, mainly because they were a quid each on TC. Until someone decided to get rid of the good old VOF93, replace it with a 'longlife' filter. Which lasts twice as long... but costs just over three quid. Thanks Vauxhall! 

[Andy B]

you also need to factor in how easy/difficult the part is the change as to whether you pay high & fit once or pay cheap & fit it twice/three times

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Good point. 

[Andy B]

Good point. 

I bought my water pump for my Roadster from MB at about £90 rather than £20 to £40 from eBay

 ...... I know this isn't a Roadster, but similar http://www.fq101.co.uk/how-to-guides/fortwo-450/engine/177-water-pump-change

[Diamond Black Geezer]

I think it's all about spending smart (no pun intended) Odd you mention waterpump, as I did mine the other week. I had one 'in stock' - It's a genuine GM one, with 8k done on it, which I bought from Missy MV6 off here. The last one (GM) seems to have racked up 100k miles (which I didn't know about, otherwise it would have been done 2 years ago when we did the timing, grr!!) so touch wood, no worries about that for a while yet. 

[aaronjb]

Good point. 

I bought my water pump for my Roadster from MB at about £90 rather than £20 to £40 from eBay

 ...... I know this isn't a Roadster, but similar http://www.fq101.co.uk/how-to-guides/fortwo-450/engine/177-water-pump-change

The way you said that I expected it to look difficult.. but that looks like a piece of cake

[Nick W]

It's the cost to benefit ratio. There are many parts(oil, filters, plugs, belts etc) that you won't notice any practical difference in,whether you buy them from GM at a huge premium, or Fred's Car parts at the end of your road. Cost and convenience are the only things that matter here.


There are a few parts that really aren't worth taking a chance on. Crank sensors, cam sensors and MAFs are good examples, and not just on Vauxhalls. Unbranded ones are cheap, and have a really high failure rate that will immobilise your car. That's unacceptable. Branded ones from the OE supplier(Bosch and Siemens in our case) cost a lot more from factors, and you often have to insist they are what you want, order and then inspect them before you pay. Failures are still not unknown, and so this all really inconvenient. Buying a genuine sensor from your dealer usually costs about the same, but without the hassle. Failures still happen, but the return policy tends to be rather better. That is why the advice(for all marques remember) is to always buy genuine over the dealer's counter.


There are other parts that need to be considered carefully: nobody is going to pay GM prices for an exhaust. But there have always been really poor quality exhausts available, and forums like this are a good place to determine which one is actually worth buying. Bearings are another example: I fitted an unbranded £20 wheel bearing to my car, reasoning that an early failure(the original lasted 160,000 miles) would have been merely annoying. If it had been a customer's car, I would have bought the £40 NSK item to reduce the possibility of comebacks.


The thing we have to watch out for, is that being specialists some of these recommendations have over time become more dogmatic than practical. GM oil is a good example, if you can get it easily at a good price it's a good buy. But it's just a standard grade of oil, not some holy nectar that will bring about world peace as well as lubricate your engine.

[Doctor Gollum]

I have noticed in several threads that there is a disscusion about OEM parts vs replacement parts made by manufacturers who made the OEM part (i.e. bosch/siemens for crank sensor or coil pack).

There is an argument that buyer (in this case GM) prevents part manufacturer to make and sell parts as their own.
Now, I'm sure that this is true for new, current cars.
However, I'm under impression that this 'ban' doens't last forever.
I'm quite sure that, after certain period of time from start of production run, manufacturer is allowed to sell this parts as their own.

What do you think?

If my theory is correct, that would mean that replacement parts made by factories that were OEM supplier should be as same quality as OEM.

I dont like that original supplier parts are put in the same bin as some cheap ebay patterns.

Let's say for arguments sake, that this 'ban' lasts ten years. There's no incentive for the company to suddenly tighten their QC on their retail lines.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

It's the cost to benefit ratio. There are many parts(oil, filters, plugs, belts etc) that you won't notice any practical difference in,whether you buy them from GM at a huge premium, or Fred's Car parts at the end of your road. Cost and convenience are the only things that matter here.


There are a few parts that really aren't worth taking a chance on. Crank sensors, cam sensors and MAFs are good examples, and not just on Vauxhalls. Unbranded ones are cheap, and have a really high failure rate that will immobilise your car. That's unacceptable. Branded ones from the OE supplier(Bosch and Siemens in our case) cost a lot more from factors, and you often have to insist they are what you want, order and then inspect them before you pay. Failures are still not unknown, and so this all really inconvenient. Buying a genuine sensor from your dealer usually costs about the same, but without the hassle. Failures still happen, but the return policy tends to be rather better. That is why the advice(for all marques remember) is to always buy genuine over the dealer's counter.


There are other parts that need to be considered carefully: nobody is going to pay GM prices for an exhaust. But there have always been really poor quality exhausts available, and forums like this are a good place to determine which one is actually worth buying. Bearings are another example: I fitted an unbranded £20 wheel bearing to my car, reasoning that an early failure(the original lasted 160,000 miles) would have been merely annoying. If it had been a customer's car, I would have bought the £40 NSK item to reduce the possibility of comebacks.


The thing we have to watch out for, is that being specialists some of these recommendations have over time become more dogmatic than practical. GM oil is a good example, if you can get it easily at a good price it's a good buy. But it's just a standard grade of oil, not some holy nectar that will bring about world peace as well as lubricate your engine.

That sums it up rather well, I think! 

[Andy B]

Good point. 

I bought my water pump for my Roadster from MB at about £90 rather than £20 to £40 from eBay

 ...... I know this isn't a Roadster, but similar http://www.fq101.co.uk/how-to-guides/fortwo-450/engine/177-water-pump-change

The way you said that I expected it to look difficult.. but that looks like a piece of cake

It is, it's only 7 M6 bolts, plus another where the alternator pivots on it ...... just a bit like key hole surgery sat cross legged on the floor with your head in the wheel arch jacking the engine slighty up or down to get to all 7 bolts. About an hour to remove & the same to refit 

The really easy job is changing all 6 spark plugs
http://www.fq101.co.uk/how-to-guides/fortwo-452/servicing/366-replacing-the-spark-plugs
the plugs are easy once you've removed the rear panels http://www.fq101.co.uk/how-to-guides/fortwo-452/servicing/46-how-to-guides/roadster/panel-guides/350-brabus-rear-removal 

[aaronjb]

Yep, that looks .. like a fun way to lose an afternoon

At least there are good how-tos (given my other half desperately wants a Smart ifwhen she passes her test)!

[Andy B]

....
 (given my other half desperately wants a Smart ifwhen she passes her test)!

I also have a Fortwo (451) Passion 84bhp that my daughter originally took the p*** out of, but when her car was off the road & then had the choice of bus or Smart, she chose Smart. She was very surprised at how nippy/quick it is & does now quite like it. They are very definitely a city car though ..... horrible, white knuckle ride, on the motorway if it's windy.