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[Doctor Gollum]

Wings, doors and shell are identical between Pre, mid and post facelift...

Facelift looks cleaner due to all body colour. Earlier cars look fussier and more dated with their chrome garnish.

[anV6]

To be pedantic if you're using 1993 as your base date you'd need a picture of the XJ40,the X300[pictured didn't appear until late 1994.Anyway the Jaguar had style.The Omega B1 is for me very effeminately styled and lacks any kind of road presence,the B2 partly made up for this with its bigger bumpers,mirrors and wheels,although I think the grille could have been better integrated-but that was the corporate "face".Would I have another B1?No I wouldn't,but then nor would I have another B2!Would I have another X300 yes definitely!!

And by the way, if you wouldn't want another Omega B1 or B2, it means you no longer have one, and even if you do, I must ask, what are you doing in an Omega forum?

This forum has always welcomed Omega owners who have moved on to newer and better cars.  I don't think its your place as a relative "newbie" to question why a long standing (4 years) member should come on to this forum if he's not prepared to buy another Omega!

I moved on a few years back after owning a few Omegas over the years to Jaguars (having owned a Mk2 3.8S saloon and a 3.8 E-Type back in the late 60s), and now run a 5.0V8 XJ Portfolio as my daily driver.  Are you suggesting that after some 9 years on this forum, I should no longer come on here?

No longer have the car and comes back here to criticize and put things down? Is there much sense in that considering this is not Pistonheads but actually an Omega fan forum?

I don't presume to tell you what to do or if you should come on here or not. But newbie or not I still have the right to counter points I don't agree with. And I don't see any sense in selling your Omega then hoping on here to pimp your Jaguar.  Do you see much sense in that? Do you consider this tactic productive? Do you think that adds anything to the community?

By the way, I'm not a relative newbie. I'm a full blown newbie, here. This doesn't reflect my actual experience with automobiles though. 

[anV6]

Wings, doors and shell are identical between Pre, mid and post facelift...

Facelift looks cleaner due to all body color. Earlier cars look fussier and more dated with their chrome garnish.

Yes I know the wings, doors and shell are identical in all of them.
 And they were designed with the original front and rear end in mind. Probably why the original front and rear ends integrate way better into the car than in the FL models.

You may know that there were PFL cars with all body color and without all the chrome. And the FL models also have some chrome.

But naturally, whether you prefer one or the other is subjective and it's totally fine to like one over the other. They are both fine looking cars.

But I'm really trying not to make this thread about PFL vs FL. I could list all the reasons why I prefer the PFL etc. But this is not the point of the thread. Although people keep trying to make it about that.

[anV6]

Just another note about the all body color scheme.

As anything in life trends come and go. The all body color scheme picked up in the 80's with designs going as far as color coding even the wheels. Now as you probably know it's starting to slow down. Cars are having a lot more black on them again. So it's a matter of preference, as anything else.

[Bojan]

PFL Omega is a very nice car. A bit under-rated perhaps (probalby as it played a role in a, at that time, dying class of non-premium executive cars).

But, as a long-term omega owner and fan, I'm always tempted by good PFL expamples that are available on the market for very chaep price.

For some time now, I am thinking about what can be tweaked on PFL design, to make it look better. As, IMO, there are various items on original design that could be done better. Not to make it look newer/more modern, just to make it look better. This is something I'd like to talk about, if someone has some ideas.
I'm not thinking about irmscher/steimnetz or similar body kits.

[BazaJT]

To make it clear,yes I do still own a B2 Omega[I kept it for a purpose which I have not yet fulfilled,when I do I will get rid of it.I joined the forum as I owned[own]an Omega and wanted to know all sorts of stuff about it.I'm not knocking the Omega per se just that for me the pfl/mfl styling is too effeminate,with the fl being better in this regard.I would say that interior wise[in Elite guise at any rate-the only type I've owned]then the B1's were far better.I'm not "pimping" ???The XJ I no longer own that either.These are just my personal opinions and if you disagree-as you obviously do-that's fine it's each to their own at the end of the day isn't it?The Steinmetz version does look well,but then that's not a standard production version which is what I was basing my opinions on.

[anV6]

To make it clear,yes I do still own a B2 Omega[I kept it for a purpose which I have not yet fulfilled,when I do I will get rid of it.I joined the forum as I owned[own]an Omega and wanted to know all sorts of stuff about it.I'm not knocking the Omega per se just that for me the pfl/mfl styling is too effeminate,with the fl being better in this regard.I would say that interior wise[in Elite guise at any rate-the only type I've owned]then the B1's were far better.I'm not "pimping" ???The XJ I no longer own that either.These are just my personal opinions and if you disagree-as you obviously do-that's fine it's each to their own at the end of the day isn't it?The Steinmetz version does look well,but then that's not a standard production version which is what I was basing my opinions on.

Fair enough. No harm done. 

Looks is entirely subjective. 

[anV6]

But, as a long-term omega owner and fan, I'm always tempted by good PFL expamples that are available on the market for very chaep price.

For some time now, I am thinking about what can be tweaked on PFL design, to make it look better. As, IMO, there are various items on original design that could be done better. Not to make it look newer/more modern, just to make it look better. This is something I'd like to talk about, if someone has some ideas.
I'm not thinking about irmscher/steimnetz or similar body kits.

The thing is making it look better will depend on what you like. It's very subjective, so it's difficult to make suggestions.

If you were to say making it look newer or more modern, or more sporty, at least we would have something to go at. 

But I think starting with the wheels is probably a good place. Wheels can incredibly change the look of a car and is an easy way to spice things up.

If the car is an early one with the old style headlights, replacing them with the newer HELLA type would also make it look better IMO.

So it depends on what you are trying to accomplish. 

What are you unhappy with in the car's design and what is your aim when you say "better"?

I would love to talk about it and finally start to discuss design. 

[Bojan]

Well, let's start with the weak points of the design (IMO):
- front grill (standard one that was fitted on most 94-99 cars) - it just doesn't look right (steinmetz and catera front grills are far more better).
- wheels - regardles of the design, the ET for the rear wheels is to high, resulting with wheels on the rear axle being to far inwards
- front bumper - it's not a bad design, but I've always felt that it could be done better
- chrome strips -for sport looks, you have to loose them. And if you want style/bling thing, they are just not big and shiny enough (carltons had engough chrome, for instance).

How to make it look sportier is a well covered area, and it can be done to look very good. 

IMO, omega, especially PFS, is an outdated car. No matter how good the condition is, it shows it's age. My idea is to use a good omega as a base, starting point, and do some subtile mods to make it look different. No chassis or panel modifications, suspension modifications limited to springs/dampers and similar. I would like to explore, brainstorm, if you will, other style type options. Of course, it must not go to the extent shown on page 1 (chav cars, meanwhile in russia and similar).

Some of ideas, and please bear with me, I have in my head:
 - retro styled confortalbe cruiser
 - rat look
 - army/outdoor/utility/van look
 - nascar styled sport look

If somebody is interested in something like that, let's talk.

[anV6]

PFL Omega is a very nice car. A bit under-rated perhaps (probalby as it played a role in a, at that time, dying class of non-premium executive cars).

I wanted to approach this part of your post separately as it's a very interesting topic and distinct from the making it look better subject.

The Omega B in general was very overlooked and today it is very underrated. It offers so much more than many cars costing more. Looks is subjective, but you can't deny the bang for the buck. Compared to many of the other cars from it's time and even some newer ones it had good features that others didn't, even those which were more expensive. For example side airbags in the seats, instead of the much cheaper and less effective version mounted on the B pillar or doors which most cars had or have.

But it wouldn't matter how good the car was or where it was better than the competition. Or even how much more you had to pay to other manufacturers to get something much better or even which had the features the Omega did. Some people can't look past a badge.

As for the whole premium or non premium thing, don't you find it an amusing topic?

My mind changed a lot about that since I moved to Europe. Is an Audi really a premium car over an Omega? If you take away the badges, I can't really see it. The longer I live here the more I see Audis for what they really are. VWs. Is a Passat a premium car? Not to me and not here. I have driven C4 and C5 A6s. I can't say they feel or even look more premium than an Omega Elite or MV6. I know several people who have Audis here and to me they are nothing special. An A3 is basically a Golf!

Back in the UK and also in the U.S. people go bonkers over BMW, Mercedes and Audi. Here all of them are taxi cabs. Sure, they command some market presence. But nowhere as special. Every time I stop at a traffic lamp I'm surrounded by BMWs, Mercedes and Audis, as wheel as the other VW variations and French cars. And guess how many Omegas? None. I think I have seen only two Omegas around for the last several months. Many people don't even know what they are if you take away the badge and it's amusing to see what they guess it to be.  With the FL you get a lot more of "Is it an Opel?". But most people can't really point out it's an Omega. So it's actually more special here than the "premium" cars.

So what is really "premium"? Is it really a real thing or just a fabricated impression crated by higher prices and urban legend? Is a Mercedes A or B really more Premium than a Passat or top of the range Insignia just because it has a plastic Mercedes badge on it?

What makes a car "premium"?

Luxury? The basic A class is not really more luxurious or nice as some of the top saloons from other "lesser" name plates.

Reliability? Mercedes from the 2000's are truly dreadful at that. BMWs break all the time too. VW is way more reliable than both.

Looks? Entirely subjective.

Personally I think badge snobbery has a lot to do with it.

So what if the Omega is not considered "premium" by most of the people who don't understand about cars out there or by badge snobs because it's an Opel/Vauxhall? Does their bottom of the line "premium" badge car have heated seats? Electric seats with memory? Leather interior? Side airbags? Cooled glove box? Air conditioner vents to the back seats? Heated washer nozzles for the front windshield? Headlight washers?  Is it RWD? Is it a 4 banger or something more special? How many BHP? Well you get my point.

I think this whole "premium" thing is smoke and mirrors. Mercedes, BMW and Audi make lesser cars too.

[anV6]

Well, let's start with the weak points of the design (IMO):
- front grill (standard one that was fitted on most 94-99 cars) - it just doesn't look right (steinmetz and catera front grills are far more better).

Since you are in Croatia I'm presuming we are talking about the Opel version? Visually there are quite a few important differences. I personally like the Opel grill much better than the Vauxhall one, which looks more formal. Many just debadge the grill and that makes it look slickier somehow.

- wheels - regardles of the design, the ET for the rear wheels is to high, resulting with wheels on the rear axle being to far inwards

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Sorry.

- front bumper - it's not a bad design, but I've always felt that it could be done better

It's difficult to change the front bumper if you don't want to go with a body kit. I personally quite like the bumper. It's quite distinct.

- chrome strips -for sport looks, you have to loose them. And if you want style/bling thing, they are just not big and shiny enough (carltons had engough chrome, for instance).

Like I mentioned there were versions without most of the chrome. But you can always spray it all in the same color of the car if you want. Including the black bits too. Easy enough. 

How to make it look sportier is a well covered area, and it can be done to look very good. 

IMO, omega, especially PFS, is an outdated car. No matter how good the condition is, it shows it's age.

I thought you said you liked the PFL car and think it looks quite well even today and that it definitely aged better than most of the cars of it's time?

I mean, it doesn't look like a 2016 car. Neither does the FL or a 2010 car for that matter. But if that's what you want just buy a 2016 model. Does a Lotus Carlton look outdated? Well, it looks of it's time and this is not a bad thing. Would I rather drive a Lotus Carlton over the huge majority of new cars today? Yes.

Outdated is a very loaded term. Technically it means something that shows it's date and there is nothing wrong with that. Many people buy older cars because they like the look of them.

But sometimes outdated is used as a derogatory term. If one wants a car which looks new just buy a new car. 

 

My idea is to use a good omega as a base, starting point, and do some subtile mods to make it look different.

If you want to make an Omega look different, why not buy a different car? If what you want is to make the Omega not look like an Omega I don't think I'm your guy. I like the lines of the car.

No chassis or panel modifications, suspension modifications limited to springs/dampers and similar. I would like to explore, brainstorm, if you will, other style type options. Of course, it must not go to the extent shown on page 1 (chav cars, meanwhile in russia and similar).

Some of ideas, and please bear with me, I have in my head:
 - retro styled confortalbe cruiser
 - rat look
 - army/outdoor/utility/van look
 - nascar styled sport look

If somebody is interested in something like that, let's talk.

 If what you want is to make a rat-rod or any other custom job it would be more productive to start a new thread about making a custom Omega.

[lloyd3213]

Regarding the heater dials of the PFL, I believe they're designed perfectly. Say you get into your car on a cold winter morning, your windscreen misted up. The design of the heating dials means you turn each knob, in turn, to the far right (all clockwise). Perhaps this was thought about in the planning of it or just a happy coincidence? I've certainly seen other heating systems in more modern cars where you turn dials both clockwise and anti-clockwise in order to achieve the same result.

To me, that design itself (and the whole of the interior) is quite intuitive.

[Kevin Wood]

Regarding the heater dials of the PFL, I believe they're designed perfectly. Say you get into your car on a cold winter morning, your windscreen misted up. The design of the heating dials means you turn each knob, in turn, to the far right (all clockwise). Perhaps this was thought about in the planning of it or just a happy coincidence? I've certainly seen other heating systems in more modern cars where you turn dials both clockwise and anti-clockwise in order to achieve the same result.

To me, that design itself (and the whole of the interior) is quite intuitive.

Yes, in my view an old-fashioned 3 knob heater is far superior to a climate control system that tries to second guess whether you're too cold or too hot, and gets it wrong half the time.

[anV6]

Regarding the heater dials of the PFL, I believe they're designed perfectly. Say you get into your car on a cold winter morning, your windscreen misted up. The design of the heating dials means you turn each knob, in turn, to the far right (all clockwise). Perhaps this was thought about in the planning of it or just a happy coincidence? I've certainly seen other heating systems in more modern cars where you turn dials both clockwise and anti-clockwise in order to achieve the same result.

To me, that design itself (and the whole of the interior) is quite intuitive.

Yes, in my view an old-fashioned 3 knob heater is far superior to a climate control system that tries to second guess whether you're too cold or too hot, and gets it wrong half the time.

That's a very good point.

I guess what bothers Nick is the look as he seem to think they look dated. So the digital controls may be more to his liking. 

[Bojan]

- wheels - regardles of the design, the ET for the rear wheels is to high, resulting with wheels on the rear axle being to far inwards

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Sorry.

How to make it look sportier is a well covered area, and it can be done to look very good. 

IMO, omega, especially PFS, is an outdated car. No matter how good the condition is, it shows it's age.

I thought you said you liked the PFL car and think it looks quite well even today and that it definitely aged better than most of the cars of it's time?

I mean, it doesn't look like a 2016 car. Neither does the FL or a 2010 car for that matter. But if that's what you want just buy a 2016 model. Does a Lotus Carlton look outdated? Well, it looks of it's time and this is not a bad thing. Would I rather drive a Lotus Carlton over the huge majority of new cars today? Yes.

Outdated is a very loaded term. Technically it means something that shows it's date and there is nothing wrong with that. Many people buy older cars because they like the look of them.

But sometimes outdated is used as a derogatory term. If one wants a car which looks new just buy a new car. 

 

My idea is to use a good omega as a base, starting point, and do some subtile mods to make it look different.

If you want to make an Omega look different, why not buy a different car? If what you want is to make the Omega not look like an Omega I don't think I'm your guy. I like the lines of the car.

For wheels and ET - with standard rims (ET33 or ET39) there is to much gap between the edge of the wheel/tyre and rear wheel arch. With lower et (ET20 or less) the rear wheel-base is wider, and it looks much better IMO. I think steinmetz rear wheels are around ET20, and look how 'powerful' it looks.

As for modifications - you can get some usual stock omega in standard wear-and-tear state, or stock one in perfect condition. Or you can find one that is modified to be sportier (irmscher/steinmetz and other variants). And that's that, IMO.

Now, my idea is not to do some drastic modifications to the car. Just use the approach that, lets say, steinmentz guys used - but rather than making it look sporty, I'd go for diferent styles. I.e. - changing front grill, wheels, maybe some new ideas on the color-schemes, different color of the floor carpets and maybe something to make the wood interior look better. But I woun't mess up your thread with that.