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[Pmacca2000]

I have to say I hope against all this technology and green efficany people will take there TR4s And every other cherished petrol powered cars to shows, looking at the thread I can't help thinking of writing to VX though, even with the invertible reply "no" just to say I've tried.
Are self driving electric cars any better?
Look at the crashes so far and we're the green energy comes from to power the cars of tomorrow, not to mention the issues with recycling them and safety concerning the battery life if such cars . 

[anV6]

You can futureproof your concern buy buying a new one now.

Not a new concept... Several UK police forces bulk ordered the Omega when cessation of production was announced. Like I suggested, if you don't like it either accept it as a sad fact of progress or do something about it.

Mourning the death of rwd saloons last made 14 years ago now is about 14 years to late.

And whilst we're on the subject, badge snobbery is the only thing keeping people from the current crop of rear wheel drive options

Like I said, it's clear you are not understanding what I'm saying.

It's not only about me. I'm talking about the big picture. The future. It is sad this type of car is disappearing and it's clear I'm not the only one who thinks that.

But even buying a HSV now, it will not last forever. At some point it will need replacement. This is not a solution anyhow.

I'm not mourning the death of the Omega if that is what you mean when you say I'm mourning the death of rwd saloons last made 14 years ago. I'm speaking of the death of 4 door RWD saloons in general, specially with a manual transmission.


I don't see any badge snobbery keeping people from the current crop of rear wheel drive options. There are just not many options. And if you want a manual transmission, we are about to hit zero options, which is what started me on this actually.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

We will see driverless car swamping the roads in our lifetime. This is apparently the future. Manufacturers are concentrating their R&D on this kind of shite and have no interest making cars for enthusiasts who actually enjoy the experience of driving their products.
We are the last generation of humans who have the freedom to get in our cars and drive them how we want, albeit possibly suffering the legal consequences if we are caught breaking the rules.
Meanwhile, the news today said the speed limit on the M1 is being cut to 60mph in the name of saving the polar bears or some other such nonsense.
Expect the rest of the motorway network to follow suit in the foreseeable future.
The future is bleak I'm afraid.

It's crazy old world. Before 1967 there were no speed limits on the motorways and magazines such as Motor and Autocar would speed test E-Types and the like on the M1.

The 70 MPH limit was fine for Austin 1100 and Ford Anglia drivers in the sixties, but 70 MPH feels so slow in 2017 when even horrid derv-drinking repmobiles can top 140 MPH.

[anV6]

Rabbiting on about the VP Senator Grange/SS platform... and saying that it's shame that you can't build a car to meet two different criteria.

Clearly it was a successful philosophy and, for now at least, still in place.

However times change, either accept it and move on, or do something about it. Simples.

At the end of the day, the demands of the buying public dictates that reasonably priced, large rwd saloons are a very niche market, and no amount of sepia shading is going to change that. Never has and never will.

HSV is a badge engineering exercise run by Holden in the same way that VXR and OPC are for Vauxhall and Opel respectively, rather than a separate range.

I'll stop there, as this will turn into another incited rant

As far as I know HSV is actually independently owned. Holden has/had a part in it. But as far as I know it is still independently owned. Not like VXR/OPC or AMG and BMW M.

[anV6]

Someone posted on here a while ago about Japanese and Korean brands entering the premium market , Toyota have Lexus, Nissan I think infinity? And how some omega owners rebadged the cars as VX/Opel or Holden to standout and bring an exclusive feel to the car in various countries.

My idea was based on a simple thought, GM has the resources and company's under its control to make a premium brand topping executive express.

Useing a Holden commodore chassis (RWD) and the same 6.2 V8 as the VXR8 would reduce costs and allow VX to use one basic package to develop its express.
Add a 7 speed automatic gearbox to increase refinement and cut in car noise will also aid economy and increase mpg figures due to low revs and good tourq while making the cars performance less apparent.
 the cabin with 4 heated and cooled leather seats, deep carpets and lashings of chrome and wood while externally adding a discreet body kit with elite branding rather than VX and you'd have the VXR8 topping the VXR range and the elite, close in performance topping the normal VX range with the exclusive advantange of having enough kit that the thinking executive may just want one?

I think you are referring to my post of a few days or possibly weeks ago.

I also brought up the same idea of Opel starting a "premium brand". I think it could work. The only part we are disagreeing is on the automatic transmission. Most of the luxury or larger RWD saloons we still have now are automatic already. What we have basically none are manuals. So it would be fine if it was automatic, as long as there was a manual option as well.

But if done right, a premium Opel/Vauxhall badge could work. But it can't be just rebadged Opels/Vauxhall with some added chrome trim. It would have to be significantly different form Opels/Vauxhalls in the way some Lexus and Infinities are. Or people will still look down at it. Just look at what people think of HSV, which to the contrary of what many think is actually independently owned. But people still look at them as Holden. And HSV fans have been asking HSV to make their cars more different than the Holdens for a long time. It is only now with the latest cars that they are starting to look different enough. So an premium Opel/Vauxhall can't be just a badge. It has to be fully new or considerably new sheet metal, different drive train etc.

The post Omega Holden RWD platform is basically the Camaro platform. That platform could definitely be used. Make a luxury model, a performance model and even an estate model. Make it look good, drive well and finish it properly. No cheap cheesy interiors. They have a chance.

Opel cars are not bad. The problem is perception. It is also not fair to compare a Mercedes A or BMW 2 with the equivalent Opel. If Opel could charge as much as them, the car would be better too. This is why they need a premium badge, so they can charge more than Opel/Vauxhalls and build the cars better.

[Pmacca2000]

I'm inclined to agree and it was your comments about the Japanese and Korean brands that really got me thinking.

My thoughts are that by keeping the body of the Holden similar, same panels, maybe different lights and body kit to current models  the car will externally show it's family roots and keep the costs of production down.
New tooling is massively expensive and would probably stop the project as the amount of units sold wouldn't justify the costs of development  per year.
Add an impressive spec,
4 Heated and cooled leather seats with 3 memory settings, heated steering wheel and gear selector, night vision, adaptive cruse control, rain sensing wipers, radar parking, touch screen satellite navigation, head up display, in built communication centres for all four seats, front seat headrest monitors for internet, DVD/CD or radio.
The xenon lamps  with beam levelling and LED rear lights adding safety to night with automatic cornering and dimming technology like the new Astra.
Auto dimming mirrors and onstar all wrapped in soft touch materials, leather dashboard with cchromed switches, keyless entry and high gloss wood or chrome trim.
Propelled along by a 6.2 V8 with 500hp and a 7 speed automatic gearbox with traction control and 4pot callipers all round in silver with ABD and EBD.
Maybe a self parking option, sun blind ?
These are just my thoughts but add a different steering wheel design and I think it would stand a chance sold at £60,000 especially when the options list could be reduced to wheel styles and sizes and colour combinations of leather and external paint ?

In my view the premium Germans brands would struggle to spec a similar size car with this amount of kit.

[anV6]

I'm inclined to agree and it was your comments about the Japanese and Korean brands that really got me thinking.

My thoughts are that by keeping the body of the Holden similar, same panels, maybe different lights and body kit to current models  the car will externally show it's family roots and keep the costs of production down.
New tooling is massively expensive and would probably stop the project as the amount of units sold wouldn't justify the costs of development  per year.
Add an impressive spec,
4 Heated and cooled leather seats with 3 memory settings, heated steering wheel and gear selector, night vision, adaptive cruse control, rain sensing wipers, radar parking, touch screen satellite navigation, head up display, in built communication centres for all four seats, front seat headrest monitors for internet, DVD/CD or radio.
The xenon lamps  with beam levelling and LED rear lights adding safety to night with automatic cornering and dimming technology like the new Astra.
Auto dimming mirrors and onstar all wrapped in soft touch materials, leather dashboard with cchromed switches, keyless entry and high gloss wood or chrome trim.
Propelled along by a 6.2 V8 with 500hp and a 7 speed automatic gearbox with traction control and 4pot callipers all round in silver with ABD and EBD.
Maybe a self parking option, sun blind ?
These are just my thoughts but add a different steering wheel design and I think it would stand a chance sold at £60,000 especially when the options list could be reduced to wheel styles and sizes and colour combinations of leather and external paint ?

In my view the premium Germans brands would struggle to spec a similar size car with this amount of kit.

Well that would basically be a VXR8 then, right? Unless I misunderstood you. Or rather a luxury VXR8. And isn't the VXR8 already priced at £55,000-60,000?

I'm not sure what reputation or image the current VXR8 has in the UK or if using a VXR8 for the new premium badge would have any negative effect on the new badge. But at least in continental Europe that would not be a problem as no Holden was ever sold here. Here it would be new.

I agree that using the Holden complete car with some alterations would be the cheaper way to go. I just don't see that happening at this point. Maybe importing the Cadillac RWD and significantly changing the front and rear fascias and giving it an European interior?

[Doctor Gollum]

 

Sorry, I laughed so much at that last statement that some wee came out

[Pmacca2000]

I'm thinking the VXR8 is already here and  a facelifted version of that could pass type approval far easier than any US variant of the same chassis?
One thing I'd like to remind people reading this is that Lexus only sold the LS400 for years and look we're they are now, ok I don't like the styling, straight lines and slashes but maybe a glimpse of what might be ?

[anV6]

I'm thinking the VXR8 is already here and  a facelifted version of that could pass type approval far easier than any US variant of the same chassis?
One thing I'd like to remind people reading this is that Lexus only sold the LS400 for years and look we're they are now, ok I don't like the styling, straight lines and slashes but maybe a glimpse of what might be ?

Yes, like I said I agree that basing it on the Holden would make all things easier. The thing is the decision to kill it was already made and knowing how big corporations work I don't see they reversing that at this point.

And a premium Opel/Vauxhall badge is definitely a valid idea if done right.

If they would not want to have anything to do with a RWD, what would you think of an AWD for the premium badge? I just today found out about a nice AWD car for sale and I have to say after I started thinking, AWD also has a lot going for it. It will not be as fun as RWD. But for a big saloon it is a good thing and AWD fits right in with the premium concept. It would also be way more feasible since Opel already has the platform currently in production.

[Doctor Gollum]

I do wish you'd do some research before you spouted forth... some more wee has escaped

http://www.buick.com/

Particularly...

http://www.buick.com/sedans/lacrosse-full-size-luxury-sedan.htmlhttp://www.buick.com/sedans/lacrosse-full-size-luxury-sedan.html

Of course if you want rhd, it's available here and now and is known as the Vauxhall Insignia...

 

[Pmacca2000]

A luxury executive express built on the insignia platform is called the elite and does a good job of propelling managers around all day in comfort yes, trying to compete with cars from the size above when you've got the smallest cabin in the class and half the tech isn't going to be an easy sell.

I was looking at the VXR8 as the cabin is the largest in the GM car range if I understand correctly,  the V8 would deliver loads of lazy power and I think a really nice job could be made of it.

4x4 isn't something I'd really thought about but could be considered although what platform are you thinking of using?

[Pmacca2000]

If GM were willing to develop a V8 insignia that would be an interesting concept, built as a proper executive express and only with 7 speed maybe 4x4?
automatic transmission so as not to compete with the VXR?
Full of kit discussed previously it may work but the V8 would intrude on the floor pan making it smaller and less cabin space for people?

Question is would it work, Audi RS4 rival or more subtle because you don't want to compromise VXR sales?

[anV6]

I do wish you'd do some research before you spouted forth... some more wee has escaped

http://www.buick.com/

Particularly...

http://www.buick.com/sedans/lacrosse-full-size-luxury-sedan.htmlhttp://www.buick.com/sedans/lacrosse-full-size-luxury-sedan.html

Of course if you want rhd, it's available here and now and is known as the Vauxhall Insignia...

 

LOL! I do wish you would stop butting in other people's conversation with your obnoxious posts. Especially if you are going to just talk BS. What in the world are you talking about? There is also an Insignia here. It's an Opel after all. And it's also available in AWD. Here, yes, in LHD. But it is still an Opel/Vauxhall, which is not the point of having a premium badge. A possible premium badge Opel/Vauxhall AWD car could well use the same Epsilon II platform of the Insignia. But it can't be just an Insignia. Anyway, sometimes I wonder if you drink, or what is your problem.

It's obvious you are a heavy weight troll and desperately attempts to stirs things up everywhere I post. In many forums this is enough to get a ban. But you know what, I will just throw you in my ignore bin with the others. So from now on I will no longer see your posts. It used to be that when you seemed to be sober, you posted some interesting things. But the trolling is outweighing everything as of lately. If your intention is to try to drive me away, you are failing miserably and will continue to do so.

 It's hard to believe I was being accused of being a troll while you get away with this infantile little crusade of yours chasing every single post I make to troll. Well, no more. So have fun being obnoxious and a troll.
 

[anV6]

A luxury executive express built on the insignia platform is called the elite and does a good job of propelling managers around all day in comfort yes, trying to compete with cars from the size above when you've got the smallest cabin in the class and half the tech isn't going to be an easy sell.

I was looking at the VXR8 as the cabin is the largest in the GM car range if I understand correctly,  the V8 would deliver loads of lazy power and I think a really nice job could be made of it.

4x4 isn't something I'd really thought about but could be considered although what platform are you thinking of using?

Like I was saying, the premium car would have to be considerably different from a normal Opel to be taken seriously. They could use the Epsilon II platform as a base. But it doesn't mean it would have to be based on the Insignia. Could be a modified longer wheel base version of the platform. This is what Holden did to the Omega platform to make the VT Commodore and its successors. Made it longer and wider. But at least with AWD there is a currently in production local platform to work from. It's also clear they are more interested in AWD across the board. So may be a more realistic thing to expect over a RWD.