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[Shackeng]

Absolutely if it was possible 

Seriously tho as I said before it is just my opinion and the way I do it. (And just to add my gb shifts smooth as fek) it's your motor u do what u want with it. 

My opinion would be if the T washer had fallen apart you would have shifting issues and if not going in to gear (as it was mentioned before...I didn't know that) well at that stage stick a new box in if old one has to come out. Again it's what I'd do as I presume the gb would have to be stripped to get to it? If so I can't be bothered to do that and to be fair I'd probably fek it up lol

Not much has to come off, its a very straightforward job.

[TheBoy]

Cleaning the magnet. Wats the need? It's a magnet and will be covered again in a weeks time?

If it does, the box is properly buggered.

The magnet is designed to hold the metal filings that the gearbox sheds, until gearbox service is required.  Thus, with every gearbox service, it needs cleaning.

It also gives an indication to the state of the box.

[rds]

cheers both, i'll give the suction draining a go, then drop the sump and change the filter. As for filling, i was going to use the same pump rather than buying yet another tool, although having read the guide, i can see the benefit.

I'll aim for 3.5L at least!

Now this is only a thought mind you for filling 
Buy a decent length of clear tube with a dia that will be a push fit into the trans hole
snake it up until it`s proud of the top of the engine.
Connect a funnel to the top of the tube & using gravity pour in the red stuff .

Alright I`ll come clean someone else thought of that   

  https://youtu.be/tno0NfJmsSo

   https://youtu.be/ldUFUeV71us

 

This was a brilliant find thanks! I searched Youtube under AR25 and found little of use. Questions arise however:
1 does running the car and trans as it is losing fluid in the pump-put phase risk damaging the gearbox internals at all?
2 during the various flush phases, is the technician replacing the fill plug before running the engine?
3  how much fluid am i likely to get through? 15L, 20L? Need  to buy in advance and doe want it sitting around after!
4 I sat that the technician shifted into Reverse once and Drive a few times (say for 30 secs each).
I assume he had footbrake on as well as handbrake (even though on axle stands)?
Why did he not shift into 1, 2, 3 during the process?

many thanks.

I can just see me flooding the drive.....

RDS

[aaronjb]

Why did he not shift into 1, 2, 3 during the process?

Because unless you actually drove it while up in the air (i.e. reached "speeds"), the difference between D, 1, 2, 3 is nothing - they're 1, 1, 1 and 1

[rds]

Indeed true, but many generic workshop manuals do state to run through the gears. And the tacho remained steady so he wasn't revving it.

any answers on the other questions, anyone?

[Kevin Wood]

There may have been some merit for purely hydraulic gearboxes, as you might bleed a little more air out of the passages in the control block but, until you have actually driven it through all the gears, their hydraulic actuators won't have filled with fluid. Hence, you go for a drive and then check the level again.

In actual fact, unless you've run it with an empty sump or dismantled the gearbox more extensively, you won't have let any air in.

[rds]

thanks Kevin

...so no need to shift through all gears during the flush process but a good idea when doing the road rest afterward?

any views on the other items please?

cheers

RDS

[Marks DTM Calib]

Absolutely if it was possible 

Seriously tho as I said before it is just my opinion and the way I do it. (And just to add my gb shifts smooth as fek) it's your motor u do what u want with it. 

My opinion would be if the T washer had fallen apart you would have shifting issues and if not going in to gear (as it was mentioned before...I didn't know that) well at that stage stick a new box in if old one has to come out. Again it's what I'd do as I presume the gb would have to be stripped to get to it? If so I can't be bothered to do that and to be fair I'd probably fek it up lol

You've been in the trade to long Webby 

[Webby the Bear]

Absolutely if it was possible 

Seriously tho as I said before it is just my opinion and the way I do it. (And just to add my gb shifts smooth as fek) it's your motor u do what u want with it. 

My opinion would be if the T washer had fallen apart you would have shifting issues and if not going in to gear (as it was mentioned before...I didn't know that) well at that stage stick a new box in if old one has to come out. Again it's what I'd do as I presume the gb would have to be stripped to get to it? If so I can't be bothered to do that and to be fair I'd probably fek it up lol

You've been in the trade to long Webby 

Lol maybe you're right

[Kevin Wood]

any views on the other items please?

OK, here goes:

1 does running the car and trans as it is losing fluid in the pump-put phase risk damaging the gearbox internals at all?

As long as you stop the engine as soon as the flow stops, probably not. If you're going to flush like this, though, I would add fluid as you remove it so it never runs dry.

2 during the various flush phases, is the technician replacing the fill plug before running the engine?

Yes, if he's doing what I think he is.

3  how much fluid am i likely to get through? 15L, 20L? Need  to buy in advance and doe want it sitting around after!

Box holds 9 litres from memory. You'd want a bit more than that to ensure a thorough flush. Probably not worth bothering with less than 10L, 15 may be better. Then again, a sumps-off fluid change only changes about 6 or 7 litres.

4 I sat that the technician shifted into Reverse once and Drive a few times (say for 30 secs each).
I assume he had footbrake on as well as handbrake (even though on axle stands)?
Why did he not shift into 1, 2, 3 during the process?

He's probably trying to flush fluid through the passages in the gearbox. I wouldn't bother. There's a negligible quantity of fluid there. It'll be just as effective in Park.


The one advantage of this method of flushing is that you can replace the couple of litres of fluid in the torque converter which will normally remain unchanged.

However, in my opinion, the best method of all would be to drop the sumps to drain the fluid, check for thrust washer bits and clean the magnet and filter, then refit the sumps, refill the rear sump with fluid, disconnect one of the fluid cooler lines and run the engine, topping up the rear sump as required. Once the fluid runs clear, reconnect the cooler line, start engine, top up fluid and take it for a drive.

The fluid cooler takes fluid returning from the torque converter, so by this method you can get fresh fluid into the torque converter and replace that couple of litres that didn't come out of the sumps.

Then again, it's a lot of faff in comparison to just dropping the sumps, which is tried and tested here, uses less fluid and almost as effective.

[Kevin Wood]

Actually, having watched it again, in the first video he's really just emptying the sump using the gearbox's pump. No point in doing that, really, take out the sump plug and collect what drains out, then remove the sumps and drain the rest.

During the second phase of flushing, he re-uses old fluid that came out during the first flush. No point in doing that either, it's mostly old fluid so throw it away!

But really, just dropping the sumps and refilling is fine, although you can also blow the fluid cooler and lines clear with an airline to get a little more of the old fluid out.

[rds]

Hello Kevin

many thanks for putting the time into watching the video and responding so comprehensively.

Please bear in mind that the sumps i have do not currently have a drain plug; I was thinking of fitting them. Initially I was impressed with how the chap in the video used the pump to remove most of the sump contents, but I became more worried about band damage as he continued to run dry. However if I can siphon or pump out almost as much via the filler hole (and then remove sumps, clean magnet and sumps, change filter and gasket, fit drain kit) then I reckon i may save myself a lot of faff/potential damage/slippery drive for nearly the same result.

It does look like a multi-stage process and now I can see why the trans shops are charging!

I also did wonder if he re-used the same oil twice but i concluded that the second lot out was just merely still dirty.

thanks again

RDS

[Kevin Wood]

I got hold of a couple of sumps years ago with a view to fitting drain plugs to them but I've never bothered. The need to check for a disintegrating thrust washer (and perhaps save the gearbox) means they have to come off and, in my opinion, it's therefore not worth bothering.

[rds]

yes i see what you mean, but for me the drain plug was to assist the first part of the job: keeping a clean driveway! the sumps are coming off anyway but I don't want a tidal wave of Tizer all over me!

[Kevin Wood]

Fair enough. That may be enough motivation to do it! ATF in the hair is not fun!

I was thinking about welding a section of thicker steel to the sump, then drilling and tapping it and fitting a normal style sump drain plug.