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[Nick W]

In 10 years time it will not only be diesel cars that will be disappearing but also quaint old cars, that you still drive yourself. 2020-2022 are when the mass car manufacturers are gearing up for mass producing self-driving cars.

No. You're living in cloud cuckoo land.

Agreed. And you know how much it pains me to do that


We don't allow the much simpler to operate trains to run on autopilot without a responsible human. There's no chance of sorting the legal requirements of self driving cars in the next 3 years. Just consider who will be responsible for the maintenance and security of the control software. And the first serious crash caused by one will put the adoption back even further.

[STEMO]

In 10 years time it will not only be diesel cars that will be disappearing but also quaint old cars, that you still drive yourself. 2020-2022 are when the mass car manufacturers are gearing up for mass producing self-driving cars.

No. You're living in cloud cuckoo land.

Agreed. And you know how much it pains me to do that


We don't allow the much simpler to operate trains to run on autopilot without a responsible human. There's no chance of sorting the legal requirements of self driving cars in the next 3 years. Just consider who will be responsible for the maintenance and security of the control software. And the first serious crash caused by one will put the adoption back even further.

Plus, and more importantly I think, people will refuse to give up the cars they are familiar with. They will simply not let the authorities sanitise driving to the extent that they don't have 100% control over their cars. Not within the timescale Rods is suggesting anyway. Remember 'Tommorows World'? What a load of twaddle that turned out to be.

[Doctor Gollum]

No, I don't think so.

Diesel residuals are supported by their low pence per mile running costs. As X30XE says, nothing proposed so far does anything to change that. The current approach is more softly softly than that, but I think will see diesel slowly disappear without the need for anything costly like a 2 tier diesel duty system. You can't just hike diesel fuel duty in the short term as this has the potential to cripple a road-based economy such as ours.

60% of cars bought are company cars and the gov't is attacking these by way of a tax surcharge, both on the car and company fuel. So this will reduce numbers in the future. Old diesels are. Being banned from town centres and (I would imagine) will shortly be subject to some kind of scrap page scheme.

10yrs from now, I don't see many new diesel cars being sold. But I don't see residuals dipping in the short or medium term.

I'm not quite sure where this inaccuracy comes from. Lorry fuel is more expensive than proper car fuel and older derv cars are  more expensive to fix when something big goes tits up.

Running the VW as daily driver over the 3.2, saves me £2k per year.

Is that allowing for the purchase price differential?

Will actually be 4 years before you break even... and even that allows nothing for depreciation

[tunnie]

But it's not all about cost, I just don't have time at weekend to tinker with cars. This weekend discovered 3.2 is leaking again, only done 1,500 miles since I fixed last issue.

I've not included tax, £30 year vs £300.

Compared to Opti's overpriced Signum, I can get a major and minor service done at VW for less than it costs him to put VED on his car for one year.

I can also see London expanded ULEZ banning Euro3 engines for non residents in 2019, so 3.2 is not viable for a commute role.

[tunnie]

Also I'm in it for the long run, had 2.2 for 12 years. 

[Viral_Jim]

But it's not all about cost, I just don't have time at weekend to tinker with cars. This weekend discovered 3.2 is leaking again, only done 1,500 miles since I fixed last issue.

This is also significant. My omega has been reliable throughout my ownership. However it is always in need of fettling to a greater or lesser extent. Currently it's the drivers window that makes a terrible screech when you raise or lower it. An easy fix I'm sure. But then I'm equally sure it will be something else next week.

Recently I've been pricing up a Superb estate as a realistically priced daily vehicle. Keeping the car for 8-10yrs and 200-250k will see savings in fuel of about £9-12k (after factoring in the difference in purchase cost) for buying the 190bhp diesel over the 220bhp petrol. Now I know diesels have more issues as they age. But £10k's worth? I think not.

What I will never understand is when you see a 3y/o diesel for sale with <20k on the clock. Madness!

[TheBoy]

What I will never understand is when you see a 3y/o diesel for sale with <20k on the clock. Madness!

Some will obviously be PCH or company cars no longer needed...

...but lots will be where people have been mis-sold diesels, like the daft mummies who drive 400yrds to school and back twice a day.


I believe this will increase dramtically over the next year or so, as the government are putting in the softly softly initial warnings about owning them, and the state sponsored media are on song about diesels.  And the British public are notoriously thick.

[Kevin Wood]

What I will never understand is when you see a 3y/o diesel for sale with <20k on the clock. Madness!

Some will obviously be PCH or company cars no longer needed...

...but lots will be where people have been mis-sold diesels, like the daft mummies who drive 400yrds to school and back twice a day.


I believe this will increase dramtically over the next year or so, as the government are putting in the softly softly initial warnings about owning them, and the state sponsored media are on song about diesels. And the British public are notoriously thick.

This is the bottom line. How many do any sort of analysis of the total cost of ownership before buying?
I reckon most buy on impulse or because their understanding doesn't go any further than "diesel = cheap".

[Viral_Jim]

I'd have to agree. I did do a TCO spreadsheet, but then a) I have a lot of time in hotel rooms and b) I'm sad like that!

I think most people look at (in probable order of importance)

1. Ooo I do like the new shape/seats/nav/gizmo. Lets have that
2. What's the stated mpg?
3. Can I afford the monthlies?
4. What's the road tax?

Diesels (up to now at least) score well on all the above financial criteria. Despite them having basically nothing to do with wat the car costs to own. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

In 10 years time it will not only be diesel cars that will be disappearing but also quaint old cars, that you still drive yourself. 2020-2022 are when the mass car manufacturers are gearing up for mass producing self-driving cars.

No. You're living in cloud cuckoo land.

Agreed. And you know how much it pains me to do that


We don't allow the much simpler to operate trains to run on autopilot without a responsible human. There's no chance of sorting the legal requirements of self driving cars in the next 3 years. Just consider who will be responsible for the maintenance and security of the control software. And the first serious crash caused by one will put the adoption back even further.

Plus, and more importantly I think, people will refuse to give up the cars they are familiar with. They will simply not let the authorities sanitise driving to the extent that they don't have 100% control over their cars. Not within the timescale Rods is suggesting anyway. Remember 'Tommorows World'? What a load of twaddle that turned out to be.

As a kid I remember my mother would never miss 'Tomorrow's World' simply because the suave and sophisticated Raymond Baxter was the presenter.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I'd have to agree. I did do a TCO spreadsheet, but then a) I have a lot of time in hotel rooms and b) I'm sad like that!

I think most people look at (in probable order of importance)

1. Ooo I do like the new shape/seats/nav/gizmo. Lets have that
2. What's the stated mpg?
3. Can I afford the monthlies?
4. What's the road tax?

Diesels (up to now at least) score well on all the above financial criteria. Despite them having basically nothing to do with wat the car costs to own. 

Thirty years ago with different priorities maybe.

Now I just buy something if it makes me feel good. As said before......you're a long time dead.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

But it's not all about cost, I just don't have time at weekend to tinker with cars. This weekend discovered 3.2 is leaking again, only done 1,500 miles since I fixed last issue.

I've not included tax, £30 year vs £300.

Compared to Opti's overpriced Signum, I can get a major and minor service done at VW for less than it costs him to put VED on his car for one year.

I can also see London expanded ULEZ banning Euro3 engines for non residents in 2019, so 3.2 is not viable for a commute role.

How dare you mock the mighty Vecsig.

The 2.8T is actually a relatively inexpensive car to own.

1.Inexpensive to buy because nobody (except me)  likes them or lusts after one.

2.Inexpensive to insure. £160 in my case.

3.Economical for the performance. An average of 27 MPG over the last 18000 miles.

4.Relatively inexpensive to maintain. Unlike an elderly soot chucker

The only downer is £500+ a year to to tax ......although pre 2006 models are about half that. 

[Viral_Jim]

You are indeed, but you are also a long time retired and skint  .

And if I'm going to be retired by 55, a V8 Jag definitely isn't on the cards

[tunnie]

But it's not all about cost, I just don't have time at weekend to tinker with cars. This weekend discovered 3.2 is leaking again, only done 1,500 miles since I fixed last issue.

I've not included tax, £30 year vs £300.

Compared to Opti's overpriced Signum, I can get a major and minor service done at VW for less than it costs him to put VED on his car for one year.

I can also see London expanded ULEZ banning Euro3 engines for non residents in 2019, so 3.2 is not viable for a commute role.

How dare you mock the mighty Vecsig.

The 2.8T is actually a relatively inexpensive car to own.

1.Inexpensive to buy because nobody (except me)  likes them or lusts after one.

2.Inexpensive to insure. £160 in my case.

3.Economical for the performance. An average of 27 MPG over the last 18000 miles.

4.Relatively inexpensive to maintain. Unlike an elderly soot chucker

The only downer is £500+ a year to to tax ......although pre 2006 models are about half that. 

So for 1 years worth of your VED, I can tax my soot chucker for 16 years 

Or I can pay for 1 years VED and major service and a minor service, or 30k miles worth of servicing 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

But it's not all about cost, I just don't have time at weekend to tinker with cars. This weekend discovered 3.2 is leaking again, only done 1,500 miles since I fixed last issue.

I've not included tax, £30 year vs £300.

Compared to Opti's overpriced Signum, I can get a major and minor service done at VW for less than it costs him to put VED on his car for one year.

I can also see London expanded ULEZ banning Euro3 engines for non residents in 2019, so 3.2 is not viable for a commute role.

How dare you mock the mighty Vecsig.

The 2.8T is actually a relatively inexpensive car to own.

1.Inexpensive to buy because nobody (except me)  likes them or lusts after one.

2.Inexpensive to insure. £160 in my case.

3.Economical for the performance. An average of 27 MPG over the last 18000 miles.

4.Relatively inexpensive to maintain. Unlike an elderly soot chucker

The only downer is £500+ a year to to tax ......although pre 2006 models are about half that. 

So for 1 years worth of your VED, I can tax my soot chucker for 16 years 

Or I can pay for 1 years VED and major service and a minor service, or 30k miles worth of servicing 

In theory,yes.

In reality after 3 or 4 years the pure tedium of driving something so dreary and slow will lead one of two ways.

1. You will feel compelled to buy a big uneconomical V8 and say 'f*ck it all.

2. You will hang yourself in order to be rid of all things derv.