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Author Topic: Syria  (Read 18521 times)

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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Syria
« Reply #75 on: 13 April 2017, 18:42:46 »

Well, there you go, it has been announced that the US have used a bomb of just under 22,000, but in Afghanistan not Syria :D

http://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending-now/us-drops-moab-bomb-on-afghanistan/512244932

That is more like it.  As I previously stated in this thread, conventional 22,000 "earthquake" bombs were used during WWII.  Perhaps the US next time should use these instead of 59 cruise missles in Syria; they will do far more damage :y
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Rods2

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Re: Syria
« Reply #76 on: 13 April 2017, 19:25:45 »

Well, there you go, it has been announced that the US have used a bomb of just under 22,000, but in Afghanistan not Syria :D

http://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending-now/us-drops-moab-bomb-on-afghanistan/512244932

That is more like it.  As I previously stated in this thread, conventional 22,000 "earthquake" bombs were used during WWII.  Perhaps the US next time should use these instead of 59 cruise missles in Syria; they will do far more damage :y

I think they might also be saving a few of those for when they have a quiet word with Kim Jong-un, along with few 30,000lb GBU-57B MOP's on the soon to be former nuclear facilities. ::) ::) ::)
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Syria
« Reply #77 on: 13 April 2017, 19:34:22 »

Well, there you go, it has been announced that the US have used a bomb of just under 22,000, but in Afghanistan not Syria :D

http://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending-now/us-drops-moab-bomb-on-afghanistan/512244932

That is more like it.  As I previously stated in this thread, conventional 22,000 "earthquake" bombs were used during WWII.  Perhaps the US next time should use these instead of 59 cruise missles in Syria; they will do far more damage :y

I think they might also be saving a few of those for when they have a quiet word with Kim Jong-un, along with few 30,000lb GBU-57B MOP's on the soon to be former nuclear facilities. ::) ::) ::)

I hope so :y :y
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Lincs Robert

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Re: Syria
« Reply #78 on: 13 April 2017, 19:56:34 »

We went to Syria on holiday in 2006, on an archeological tourist holiday. I'm not sure we will be going back anytime soon though  ::)
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STEMO

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Re: Syria
« Reply #79 on: 13 April 2017, 20:03:39 »

We went to Syria on holiday in 2006, on an archeological tourist holiday. I'm not sure we will be going back anytime soon though  ::)
Plenty of ruins to visit there now.
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ronnyd

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Re: Syria
« Reply #80 on: 13 April 2017, 20:08:08 »

We went to Syria on holiday in 2006, on an archeological tourist holiday. I'm not sure we will be going back anytime soon though  ::)
Plenty of ruins to visit there now.
Yeah, some not so ancient either :D
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Syria
« Reply #81 on: 14 April 2017, 10:54:01 »

Well, there you go, it has been announced that the US have used a bomb of just under 22,000, but in Afghanistan not Syria :D

http://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending-now/us-drops-moab-bomb-on-afghanistan/512244932

That is more like it.  As I previously stated in this thread, conventional 22,000 "earthquake" bombs were used during WWII.  Perhaps the US next time should use these instead of 59 cruise missles in Syria; they will do far more damage :y
Missed the point... again.

That is the difference between a strategic strike and making a statement  ::)

Besides, unless I am mistaken, surely the whole point of history is to learn from it :-\ But I digress...
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Syria
« Reply #82 on: 14 April 2017, 11:44:31 »

Well, there you go, it has been announced that the US have used a bomb of just under 22,000, but in Afghanistan not Syria :D

http://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending-now/us-drops-moab-bomb-on-afghanistan/512244932

That is more like it.  As I previously stated in this thread, conventional 22,000 "earthquake" bombs were used during WWII.  Perhaps the US next time should use these instead of 59 cruise missles in Syria; they will do far more damage :y
Missed the point... again.

That is the difference between a strategic strike and making a statement  ::)

Besides, unless I am mistaken, surely the whole point of history is to learn from it :-\ But I digress...

You may think I constantly miss the point, but actually I think in wider picture, and long game, terms.  ;)

I know very well the difference between a strategic strike and making a statement, but I do not think, like you, Trump appreciates that.  He is not a politician by training, and has missed the point of "shock and awe" tactics that his predecessors have used.  In Syria he has fallen between the two, and ended up with a poor result.  Is Assad taking any notice?; no.  Is Putin taking any notice?; no.  Has there been a rush by Trump to repeat his "statement"? no.  That is because he failed on all accounts.  First to do what he said so boldly; "kick the shit" out of them or make them wake up and be worried or frightened. Yes in history we learn, or should do.  We have learnt that if you want to achieve in the "making a statement" or the strategic strike arena you do it hard, and without weakness or flaw.  You must be fully committed. If the power taking the action fails in these respects, like with Britain over Suez in 1956, they achieve nothing but looking weak and half hearted.  Thank God in WWII it was all about the strategic strike, as, like with Assad, "making a statement" just fell on deaf ears and the evil determination of Hitler, and the Allies won.

In short, a super power can ill afford to fall short of maximum intent as in our flawed world they can too easily become a paper tiger. :)
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Rods2

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Re: Syria
« Reply #83 on: 14 April 2017, 17:00:20 »

US used the right tool for the job with cruise missiles, so they did not endanger their pilots and aircraft against the Russian S300 and S400 SAM systems. The use of a MOAB would risk aircraft and also cause unnecessary civilian casualties due to the wide blast effect. It is very important that the West keep the moral high ground compared to Assad's and Putin's war crimes.

The cruise missiles only carry 1000lb warheads, so dropping 58 of them will damage not obliterate an airfield. This was the point of the exercise. If Assad uses gas again and continues with his indiscriminate barrel bombing of civilians, grain stores, bakeries and hospitals like he did again yesterday, then don't be surprised if the next batch of cruise missiles are much closer to his palace. Legally, the US would have to be at war with Assad to use decapitation, so this is unlikely. Their targeting of terrorist leaders can and is classed as legitimate self defense, but it does have its critics. This could not be used as a reason against Assad as his and Russian forces have not deliberately and directly attacked any Western forces. This is also why we quite rightly warned Syria and Russia before the airfield attack, so they could evacuate their forces.

Legitimate preemptive nuclear strikes can be used by the US for their or their allies self-defense, something that Kim Jong-un might yet find out to his cost. ::) ::) ::) Obummer tried to get this option removed from US nuclear doctrine, but failed, primarily over North Korea and also for the protection of South Korea, Taiwan and Japan. :y
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Syria
« Reply #84 on: 14 April 2017, 17:42:51 »

This is also why they quite rightly warned Syria and Russia before the airfield attack, so they could evacuate their forces.


We?  ???  Amended for accuracy Rods!  ::)  ;)
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Syria
« Reply #85 on: 14 April 2017, 21:29:13 »

US used the right tool for the job with cruise missiles, so they did not endanger their pilots and aircraft against the Russian S300 and S400 SAM systems. The use of a MOAB would risk aircraft and also cause unnecessary civilian casualties due to the wide blast effect. It is very important that the West keep the moral high ground compared to Assad's and Putin's war crimes.

The cruise missiles only carry 1000lb warheads, so dropping 58 of them will damage not obliterate an airfield. This was the point of the exercise. If Assad uses gas again and continues with his indiscriminate barrel bombing of civilians, grain stores, bakeries and hospitals like he did again yesterday, then don't be surprised if the next batch of cruise missiles are much closer to his palace. Legally, the US would have to be at war with Assad to use decapitation, so this is unlikely. Their targeting of terrorist leaders can and is classed as legitimate self defense, but it does have its critics. This could not be used as a reason against Assad as his and Russian forces have not deliberately and directly attacked any Western forces. This is also why we quite rightly warned Syria and Russia before the airfield attack, so they could evacuate their forces.

Legitimate preemptive nuclear strikes can be used by the US for their or their allies self-defense, something that Kim Jong-un might yet find out to his cost. ::) ::) ::) Obummer tried to get this option removed from US nuclear doctrine, but failed, primarily over North Korea and also for the protection of South Korea, Taiwan and Japan. :y

The blast effect of these MOAB's is 1 mile and would not effect civilians not engaged in airfield activities. The risk of a cruise missle going astray, especially when 59 are being used, and killing a multitude of civilians is far higher than these accurately dropped MOAB.

Is it not already too late for the USA / West to claim the moral high ground?  The USA and the western forces have stood by and watched war crime after war crime take place as thousands of women and children have been blasted by Assad's, Putin's and "rebel" forces without any retaliation.  Only discussions have taken place in that paper tiger of an institution called the United Nations. It needs the US to take decisive action with strategic attacks combined with "statements" such as in Afganistan with the MOAB action. Only then will all nations wake up and realise that the super power on the block has teeth and will take decisive action to halt what is a diplomatic disaster called the Middle East.  The Afgan attack has certainly woken up China and Northe Korea to the reality at last that the US will extend it's will over those who threaten it's interests.  Russia also now knows that "their friend Trump" will give them no favours and (we hope) is starting to dictate how things will be.

We shall see of course, and no doubt the diplomats of the worlds governments are now working hard to fathom what it all means.  It does of course mean that the UK defence systems and intelligence must be on top of their game.
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Re: Syria
« Reply #86 on: 14 April 2017, 22:47:37 »

Decisive action to halt what is the diplomatic disaster of the middle east.?

We havent got a good track record of  putting something in place having created a vacuum. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and now Syria, you cannot bomb an ideology out of existence. Assuming the West managed to remove Assad, what then? Draw some arbitrary lines on maps? We have form on that.

Syria today, Yemen next week. Iran next year.
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LC0112G

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Re: Syria
« Reply #87 on: 14 April 2017, 23:29:40 »

The blast effect of these MOAB's is 1 mile and would not effect civilians not engaged in airfield activities. The risk of a cruise missle going astray, especially when 59 are being used, and killing a multitude of civilians is far higher than these accurately dropped MOAB.

Is it not already too late for the USA / West to claim the moral high ground?  The USA and the western forces have stood by and watched war crime after war crime take place as thousands of women and children have been blasted by Assad's, Putin's and "rebel" forces without any retaliation.  Only discussions have taken place in that paper tiger of an institution called the United Nations. It needs the US to take decisive action with strategic attacks combined with "statements" such as in Afganistan with the MOAB action. Only then will all nations wake up and realise that the super power on the block has teeth and will take decisive action to halt what is a diplomatic disaster called the Middle East.  The Afgan attack has certainly woken up China and Northe Korea to the reality at last that the US will extend it's will over those who threaten it's interests.  Russia also now knows that "their friend Trump" will give them no favours and (we hope) is starting to dictate how things will be.

We shall see of course, and no doubt the diplomats of the worlds governments are now working hard to fathom what it all means.  It does of course mean that the UK defence systems and intelligence must be on top of their game.

The MOAB is of no use in Syria or North Korea. It is basically loaded on a pallet and slides out the back of a C-130 Hercules. The Herky bird has the radar signature of a large skyscraper, and is about as manouverable. It would be chicken feed for any reasonably competent air defence system, and Syria is more than semi-competent.

Any strike against Syria (or N.Korea) has to be carried out by cutting edge stuff - cruise missiles, stealth drones or B2 bombers. For small strikes cruise missiles are ideal. If you want a big hole in the ground, then the B2 can carry two GBU57 bombs. Any other delivery platform just puts the crew in severe danger.
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STEMO

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Re: Syria
« Reply #88 on: 15 April 2017, 11:18:43 »

The blast effect of these MOAB's is 1 mile and would not effect civilians not engaged in airfield activities. The risk of a cruise missle going astray, especially when 59 are being used, and killing a multitude of civilians is far higher than these accurately dropped MOAB.

Is it not already too late for the USA / West to claim the moral high ground?  The USA and the western forces have stood by and watched war crime after war crime take place as thousands of women and children have been blasted by Assad's, Putin's and "rebel" forces without any retaliation.  Only discussions have taken place in that paper tiger of an institution called the United Nations. It needs the US to take decisive action with strategic attacks combined with "statements" such as in Afganistan with the MOAB action. Only then will all nations wake up and realise that the super power on the block has teeth and will take decisive action to halt what is a diplomatic disaster called the Middle East.  The Afgan attack has certainly woken up China and Northe Korea to the reality at last that the US will extend it's will over those who threaten it's interests.  Russia also now knows that "their friend Trump" will give them no favours and (we hope) is starting to dictate how things will be.

We shall see of course, and no doubt the diplomats of the worlds governments are now working hard to fathom what it all means.  It does of course mean that the UK defence systems and intelligence must be on top of their game.

The MOAB is of no use in Syria or North Korea. It is basically loaded on a pallet and slides out the back of a C-130 Hercules. The Herky bird has the radar signature of a large skyscraper, and is about as manouverable. It would be chicken feed for any reasonably competent air defence system, and Syria is more than semi-competent.

Any strike against Syria (or N.Korea) has to be carried out by cutting edge stuff - cruise missiles, stealth drones or B2 bombers. For small strikes cruise missiles are ideal. If you want a big hole in the ground, then the B2 can carry two GBU57 bombs. Any other delivery platform just puts the crew in severe danger.
You forgot ICBM's  :)
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Syria
« Reply #89 on: 15 April 2017, 11:28:21 »

Decisive action to halt what is the diplomatic disaster of the middle east.?

We havent got a good track record of  putting something in place having created a vacuum. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and now Syria, you cannot bomb an ideology out of existence. Assuming the West managed to remove Assad, what then? Draw some arbitrary lines on maps? We have form on that.

Syria today, Yemen next week. Iran next year.

Let's face it, the Middle East has been a melting pot for politic and religious unrest since before the last days of the Romans.  The West has been taking action in those parts for 1000 years.  Who is to say that conflicts over the Middle East will not still be the norm for another 1000 years.  The Romans up to 1453 had some control over these parts, then the Ottoman Empire, with western empires mixing the pot.

Jesus even predicted that Jerusalem would always be the centre of conflict until the final Judgement, the Apocalypse.

Who has any real answers to it, that fatal mix of politics and religion?   
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