Brexit negotiations

[BazaJT]

To answer Stemos' question.Last British PM to be assassinated[the only one in fact]was Spencer Perceval bumped off on May11th 1812 he was aged 49 and strangely enough was a Tory

[Sir Tigger KC]

We have just 1 (viable)option, a bad deal. But this was the wish of the 52%, and how democracy works. It doesn't take into account naivety

What utter dingle berries! 

This 'deal' is not a viable option at all for our country and certainly isn't what the 52% voted for!   

Come to that it's not what the 48% voted for either, as if there was another referendum and the option was leave or become a soviet of the EU, I suspect the percentage for leave would be much much higher. 

Anyone who thinks that going forward the EU will negotiate an FTA in good faith to avoid the absurd backstop needs their head examining! 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Brexit is close now.

Very soon we'll be taking back total control.

[TheBoy]

The yanks were given 2 duff options due to how things panned out, and pragmatically took the most appalling of the 2 crap outcomes.

We have just 1 (viable)option, a bad deal. But this was the wish of the 52%, and how democracy works. It doesn't take into account naivety

Fixed.

I disagree, he is what the country needs at the moment, after the recent dross. Hilary would have been a complete disaster, as she cares more about herself than her country.

We need similar, but our media means we only ever get the hopeless

[TheBoy]

We have just 1 (viable)option, a bad deal. But this was the wish of the 52%, and how democracy works. It doesn't take into account naivety

What utter dingle berries! 

This 'deal' is not a viable option at all for our country and certainly isn't what the 52% voted for!   

Come to that it's not what the 48% voted for either, as if there was another referendum and the option was leave or become a soviet of the EU, I suspect the percentage for leave would be much much higher. 

Anyone who thinks that going forward the EU will negotiate an FTA in good faith to avoid the absurd backstop needs their head examining! 

The bad deal will be here for a generation, as I said 18 months ago.  It was always going to be the outcome. Those who thought the EU would role over and give us everything are the ones who need to look in a mirror

The only other option, even worse, is another vote. Clearly the BBC, brexit fans, feel the need to start mentioning the African migrants every day again, as they did in the time leading up to the referendum.  Obviously, intelligent people understand that being in or out of the EU will not stop illegal immigration, but as we throw, the majority of the population are a bit weak in the head, and believe everything that's said anywhere

[ronnyd]

The yanks were given 2 duff options due to how things panned out, and pragmatically took the most appalling of the 2 crap outcomes.

We have just 1 (viable)option, a bad deal. But this was the wish of the 52%, and how democracy works. It doesn't take into account naivety

Fixed.

I disagree, he is what the country needs at the moment, after the recent dross. Hilary would have been a complete disaster, as she cares more about herself than her country.

We need similar, but our media means we only ever get the hopeless

I did mean that both were apalling Of all the citizens of the USA, couldn,t they have found any better? 

[Lizzie Zoom]

Right, I have sat on the side lines too long!

TM has done her best against 27 other countries.  We are not a super power any longer and we cannot send in our naval fleet to force their hand.  Even in war we have never taken on 27 other countries, and especially not in one block at one time.  We cannot therefore force the other 27 to do totally what we want as a country.

52%, not including me, voted to leave, but at no stage did they specify want they wanted in detail apart from LEAVE the EU.  That is what they are getting, LEAVE.  I have to accept what they wanted, even though the benefits of leaving are very doubtful, but there you go, that is democracy, and by that process that is what we are getting by way of Mrs May committing herself totally to that, and no doubt suffering nightmares every night.........she is learning you can never please all the people all the time.

The moaners who now come in all political colours, in all shades of those variants, now so easily criticise about something they could never have achieved in two years.  This kind of complex deal should have taken 5 years at least (WW2 took 6 years to re-shape Europe!!), but the Leavers wanted it NOW!  So be it, THEY are getting what they wished for, and the rest of the 48% will have to live with it!

Now, every leaver stop winging and just support the democratic leader of this proud country who has achieved so much, in such a short time, against the odds and up against 27 other countries!

[Sir Tigger KC]

That is what they are getting, LEAVE.

But that's the thing Lizzie and why Brexiteers are up in arms.  This treaty won't lead us to leaving the EU, far from it, it will lead us to being further entrenched in the EU institutions but with all our voting rights and representation gone.  That is not what 17,400,000 people voted for and it why people are so angry. 

I can't think of any other democratic nation that would sign an agreement with it's bigger more powerful neighbour that it cannot unilaterally give notice and withdraw from in the way that Mother Theresa has agreed with the absurd backstop.  New Zealand with Australia?, Japan with China?, Sri Lanka with India?, Canada with USA? I can't believe that any of these smaller countries would willingly walk into such a trap and they must be looking on with incredulity at how Britain has 'negotiated' itself into such a position. 

And far from being the insignificant island that TB often talks about, bar Japan we are bigger than all those countries.  The EU will be significantly diminished by the departure of it's second biggest economy and third countries have been talking of renegotiating their trade deals with the EU in the light of this.  Not that the British media report such things. 

After a delegation of prominent British remainers (Clegg, Adonis etc I believe) went to see Barnier to undermine HMG, he was heard to comment that he had never met a bunch of people so negative about their own country and this is the crux of the issue. Attitude.  I am sure that the defeatist negative attitude that TB often displays towards the UK is prevalent amongst the Sir Humphries of the civil service and the establishment at large who are doing their very best to subvert the result of the referendum. It's not that we are an insignificant little island, it just that the officials believe that we are and have utterly failed to play the strong cards we held in terms of the money, our huge trade deficit, access to fishing, military and security cooperation etc

Driving home from Wales late on Friday night BBC Radio 2 news gave much coverage to May's 'deal' and on three bulletins they had three different people talking about the need for another referendum.  Alastair Campbell, Sadiq Khan and I forget the third, but the message was the same.  Three different voices giving the same message.  It's propaganda! drip, drip, drip! 

[Varche]

Right, I have sat on the side lines too long!

TM has done her best against 27 other countries.  We are not a super power any longer and we cannot send in our naval fleet to force their hand.  Even in war we have never taken on 27 other countries, and especially not in one block at one time.  We cannot therefore force the other 27 to do totally what we want as a country.

52%, not including me, voted to leave, but at no stage did they specify want they wanted in detail apart from LEAVE the EU.  That is what they are getting, LEAVE.  I have to accept what they wanted, even though the benefits of leaving are very doubtful, but there you go, that is democracy, and by that process that is what we are getting by way of Mrs May committing herself totally to that, and no doubt suffering nightmares every night.........she is learning you can never please all the people all the time.

The moaners who now come in all political colours, in all shades of those variants, now so easily criticise about something they could never have achieved in two years.  This kind of complex deal should have taken 5 years at least (WW2 took 6 years to re-shape Europe!!), but the Leavers wanted it NOW!  So be it, THEY are getting what they wished for, and the rest of the 48% will have to live with it!

Now, every leaver stop winging and just support the democratic leader of this proud country who has achieved so much, in such a short time, against the odds and up against 27 other countries!

Cannot agree with you Lizzie.

Using a war analogy the country should have united with crossparty support and come up with a plan and a backstop of no deal.

You do not need to be a super power to negotiate a good deal just good negotiators with a mandate. History willshow the last two years as a disgrace. No innovation from us just concesson after comcession t the EU. We also let the Irishborder be weaponised. Disgusting.

Timeiscale. Are not the two years partof the article 50 process.?

Lets just glance at remainers. Still banging on about a peoples vote. Ifthat ever happens andresults in go back in the EU just how much of an underdog will we be? What conditions?

Anyway still a long way to go. When the EU votes yes today for what is effectively their agreement and when Parliament votes it down in the UK, what then? Pizza club no deal? If Theresa May haddone a good job parliament and the country would be behind herand the pressure would have been on the unelected leaders of the EU to persuade the 27 to agree the deal.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Right, I have sat on the side lines too long!

TM has done her best against 27 other countries.  We are not a super power any longer and we cannot send in our naval fleet to force their hand.  Even in war we have never taken on 27 other countries, and especially not in one block at one time.  We cannot therefore force the other 27 to do totally what we want as a country.

52%, not including me, voted to leave, but at no stage did they specify want they wanted in detail apart from LEAVE the EU.  That is what they are getting, LEAVE.  I have to accept what they wanted, even though the benefits of leaving are very doubtful, but there you go, that is democracy, and by that process that is what we are getting by way of Mrs May committing herself totally to that, and no doubt suffering nightmares every night.........she is learning you can never please all the people all the time.

The moaners who now come in all political colours, in all shades of those variants, now so easily criticise about something they could never have achieved in two years.  This kind of complex deal should have taken 5 years at least (WW2 took 6 years to re-shape Europe!!), but the Leavers wanted it NOW!  So be it, THEY are getting what they wished for, and the rest of the 48% will have to live with it!

Now, every leaver stop winging and just support the democratic leader of this proud country who has achieved so much, in such a short time, against the odds and up against 27 other countries!

Cannot agree with you Lizzie.

Using a war analogy the country should have united with crossparty support and come up with a plan and a backstop of no deal.

You do not need to be a super power to negotiate a good deal just good negotiators with a mandate. History willshow the last two years as a disgrace. No innovation from us just concesson after comcession t the EU. We also let the Irishborder be weaponised. Disgusting.

Timeiscale. Are not the two years partof the article 50 process.?

Lets just glance at remainers. Still banging on about a peoples vote. Ifthat ever happens andresults in go back in the EU just how much of an underdog will we be? What conditions?

Anyway still a long way to go. When the EU votes yes today for what is effectively their agreement and when Parliament votes it down in the UK, what then? Pizza club no deal? If Theresa May haddone a good job parliament and the country would be behind herand the pressure would have been on the unelected leaders of the EU to persuade the 27 to agree the deal.

Sorry Varche, but if we were the USA we would just tell them what to do, but we are not.  We have to live in the real World, not the British Imperialistic  world of 100 years ago.  Real power makes all the difference in any political negotiation; it always has throughout history and still does.  The reality is that we belong through a very complex long term legal set of agreements to a club of 27 other nations that will not be bullied, and frankly do not want us to leave easily because they know what that would mean. No matter what the UK WANTS, only the EU can give if they want to, and that has formed the basis of the final agreement.

We all can huff and puff as much as we like, but to the EU it will make fxck all difference, and certainly whatever feelings you or I have on this car forum, it will also mean sweet FA.

The only way to change everything is to use our voting powers, but as the country is split many ways on this one I will not be holding my breath for a speedy solution!

[Varche]

Real power? Fifth or sixth economy in the world is something we should have used. Instead we cower whimpering.

We as a country portrayed ourselves like losers. Very easy for the EU to negotiate with self proclaimed losers. The damage was done by the country not getting behind the referendum result from day one. Ithink it is a uniquely British trait.

[Doctor Gollum]

An American yesterday apologized for Trump, and went as far as to suggest that he would gladly sway Donald for the Queen 

I didn't have the heart to suggest that either such a swap would be of more benefit to us, or that I would have voted for Trump given the same choice

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I'm afraid we have delusions of grandeur.

Perhaps in Victorian Britain when we had control of half the globe getting exactly what we want may have been possible.

We've been given a kicking but it's our own fault.....we started it.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Right, I have sat on the side lines too long!

TM has done her best against 27 other countries.  We are not a super power any longer and we cannot send in our naval fleet to force their hand.  Even in war we have never taken on 27 other countries, and especially not in one block at one time.  We cannot therefore force the other 27 to do totally what we want as a country.

52%, not including me, voted to leave, but at no stage did they specify want they wanted in detail apart from LEAVE the EU.  That is what they are getting, LEAVE.  I have to accept what they wanted, even though the benefits of leaving are very doubtful, but there you go, that is democracy, and by that process that is what we are getting by way of Mrs May committing herself totally to that, and no doubt suffering nightmares every night.........she is learning you can never please all the people all the time.

The moaners who now come in all political colours, in all shades of those variants, now so easily criticise about something they could never have achieved in two years.  This kind of complex deal should have taken 5 years at least (WW2 took 6 years to re-shape Europe!!), but the Leavers wanted it NOW!  So be it, THEY are getting what they wished for, and the rest of the 48% will have to live with it!

Now, every leaver stop winging and just support the democratic leader of this proud country who has achieved so much, in such a short time, against the odds and up against 27 other countries!

As I said previously........if we do have a second referendum there should be no third option. We leave with the deal negotiated by the PM or we leave with no deal.

As you have rightly said, we have already decided to leave. Remaining should not become the third option.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

That is what they are getting, LEAVE.

But that's the thing Lizzie and why Brexiteers are up in arms.  This treaty won't lead us to leaving the EU, far from it, it will lead us to being further entrenched in the EU institutions but with all our voting rights and representation gone.  That is not what 17,400,000 people voted for and it why people are so angry. 

I can't think of any other democratic nation that would sign an agreement with it's bigger more powerful neighbour that it cannot unilaterally give notice and withdraw from in the way that Mother Theresa has agreed with the absurd backstop.  New Zealand with Australia?, Japan with China?, Sri Lanka with India?, Canada with USA? I can't believe that any of these smaller countries would willingly walk into such a trap and they must be looking on with incredulity at how Britain has 'negotiated' itself into such a position. 

And far from being the insignificant island that TB often talks about, bar Japan we are bigger than all those countries.  The EU will be significantly diminished by the departure of it's second biggest economy and third countries have been talking of renegotiating their trade deals with the EU in the light of this.  Not that the British media report such things. 

After a delegation of prominent British remainers (Clegg, Adonis etc I believe) went to see Barnier to undermine HMG, he was heard to comment that he had never met a bunch of people so negative about their own country and this is the crux of the issue. Attitude.  I am sure that the defeatist negative attitude that TB often displays towards the UK is prevalent amongst the Sir Humphries of the civil service and the establishment at large who are doing their very best to subvert the result of the referendum. It's not that we are an insignificant little island, it just that the officials believe that we are and have utterly failed to play the strong cards we held in terms of the money, our huge trade deficit, access to fishing, military and security cooperation etc

Driving home from Wales late on Friday night BBC Radio 2 news gave much coverage to May's 'deal' and on three bulletins they had three different people talking about the need for another referendum.  Alastair Campbell, Sadiq Khan and I forget the third, but the message was the same.  Three different voices giving the same message.  It's propaganda! drip, drip, drip! 

It's like needing permission from Mum.